Funny - it's the same for roughly 50% of Americans too - which is horrifying.
👁️ 👁️
Edit: sorry it was more than 50% of Americans. Fuck everyone. Goodbye.
Even as someone who clashes with Lemmy.world users every post, I highly doubt Kamala doesn't have the vast majority of American support over Trump. It's that people don't vote
It's that people don't vote
Yes but also no: it's mostly that many people either CAN'T vote or can but only with extreme exercise of patience and stamina.
Get rid of all the ridiculous voter suppression obstacles and you'll see a dramatic uptick in voting and a corresponding shift towards Dems winning almost every election, making the GOP unviable within a decade.
Neither major party wants that, though, since the Dem leadership counts on running on fear of Republicans so that they won't have to go further left than the owner donors are comfortable with.
People that don't bother to vote are as bad as Trump supporters. The true foundation of every autocratic regime is not fear, it's not their real supporters, it's people that don't care what happens as long as it's not happening to them (yet).
It's always that people don't vote. Support without votes is empty wind.
I don’t know. There’s a surprising amount of stupid people here. They live in near poverty and are easily manipulated into hating others as the reason for their miserable lives. It’s really that simple in my opinion. Yes there are lots of people who don’t vote, but I’m not sure that it would change the current split if they all did vote. We need more and better education.
I think that's certainly part of it. Imo, it's a few things more also, not that you said it wasn't anything else too:
Included in what you said, voter suppression. People being bombarded into apathy, has really kicked up a notch. Its identifying who's susceptible and spamming them like mad with things the data you have on them says will work specifically.
There's a real core of people in every country thats incredibly easy to wind up with emotive narratives that have enough truthyness to override what might otherwise be sound critical judgment skills.
America's real problem is that the direct line to those people and their data is owned by a very small group of very wealthy people. On top of that, you have interference from a country that seems to some how be even better than America at foreign election interference and they're very pro trump.
That's before you get to the Democrats who, even if they were or weren't any good, have to sell their soul to the highest bidder just to come close to Republican election spending. The side who spends the most is always the side who wins and a democrat will only ever be given enough money to win if they compromise to an extent that they're, right or wrong, not different enough for a lot of Americans.
My country's greatest export is class subjugation. America's is the manufacture of consent. America was amazing at it even before social media etc. which would be a dictators dream. Now, I'm not saying the people with all the power are as bad as bad as stalin or anything like that. But, with something like that at your disposal, you wouldn't have to be.
TLDR: America is the ever evolving blueprint to how consent will be manufactured around the world.
Watching America edging fascism is my pastime in between watching my own country edging fascism.
Which country?
I'm currently guessing Poland or Bellarussia
You've guessed right — It's Poland.
Americans are watching this too and wondering what the fuck is wrong with our fellow Americans. This should not even be close.
America is a fascist nation dripping in right wing propaganda.
If we elect Trump a second time, the only people who can express shock are the ones who have never seen a neighbor wave a Confederate flag, brandish a Blue Lives Punisher logo, have FOX News blasting away in the living room, or demand you laugh at their joke full of ethnic slurs.
I'm really hoping that it isn't close and that the polls were lying "just to make it interesting"
I have some bad news
But have you thought that Kamala is a Woman?
Yeah, I really can't believe Harris is even a viable option. This should be a Trump landslide. 🫡
As an American:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
inhales
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
I second this emotion
I will now cut back on all social media. Lemmy included as I get a depression from what's happening in the US. What is painfully obvious is that we Europeans must stop fucking around and federate so that we have a fucking chance wedged in between despots and idiots.
The current trend is sadly in the other direction. Fascists are rising to power and the countrys get more separated. More border controllers are happening.
Volt all the way baby!!!
Lets get the european federation on the way!!
Best of luck, wish me good luck on getting out of here before everyone realizes they closed the boarders going OUT as well as IN.
I'm really hoping Harris wins, and we can make politics boring again. I know that if Trump wins, we'll hear about all the insanity he will put in place for the next four years.
Sure, if he loses, Trump will cry foul, but that doesn't have the same legs as it would if he wins.
I just want Trump to be some washed out TV "celebrity" and politics to be as entertaining as it always is: not very.
I'm not American and all I hear about right now is American politics. Y'all need to figure your shit out.
Trump is not the problem. Trump is the symptom. The problem is a somewhat powerful minority faction in the US actively pushing to dismantle our democracy. Project 2025 wasn't written by Trump and didn't write itself.
Harris' win is step 1. We then need to push to shore up our democracy and prevent a more cunning trump replacement.
If Trump wins, the world will become a way less hospitable place even faster. This is literally the fight for the last resources, and the 1% wants it all. Trump is a Billionaire enabler... nothing else.
If Trump loses, that dissolves the Trump cult and the next Trump that comes along will just be compared to Trump
I wouldn't count on that. These are cultists who are ready to deify Trump and start sending people to the camps. I don't think losing an election will change the fundamental cult dynamic, or the hatred and anger that has been organized within the cult. We are stuck with this bullshit probably for the rest of our lives, one way or the other.
next four years
Optimist.
You are out of your mind, my friend and so far removed from reality. What insanity are you even referring to? America needs rehabilitation, and we're not getting that with Harris, who has presented herself as utterly clueless in just about all her media interactions. It's absolutely bonkers how the seemingly majority of people here on Lemmy can't see this. Yikes! Glad to see the blue wall coming down as I type this.
The worst one for me is that there's some chode near me that displays a flag on his house fucking bragging that he's voting for a convicted felon.
They're proud of the fact that they're supporting a criminal, and I bet they'd be ok with him if he was an open Nazi as well (they're just fine with the same tactics and having literal Nazi flag wavers in their midst).
Adam Conover's last video changed my view on the shock. They're not voting for him despite his bad qualities. They're voting for him because of his bad qualities. Telling them he's a Nazi and a felon and blah blah blah will reinforce their idea that he's the right guy. When people who worked in his government come out against him, the response is, "Of course they did. They're part of the swamp we're trying to drain."
Reason is dead. We're never going to convince these people that Trump is unfit for the job and a horrible human being. It's time to stop being so shocked these people exist. They always have and will continue to exist. All we can do is show up and end the man's political career.
Post-election update: 14 million vote spread between Biden '20 and Harris '24. Trump was only down maybe 1½ million votes between '20 and '24. Hey Democrats, where the fuck were you on Tuesday?
It’s all very Dunning-Kruger. A huge part of the crazy conservative personality seems to be thinking YOU are the smart one in a sea of sheep, and that everything is a conspiracy.
So when Trump is getting convicted, looking like an idiot, and has most of the civilized world against him? SO much evidence of the conspiracy and the system trying to save itself from the great disruptor! It’s like reality itself is bending over backwards to make the chosen one look like an irredeemable pile of shit!
I understand them. I'm not American, and I'm something like a middle class so I'd vote for blue. And most of the people here probably think the same, we have that echo chamber. But if I were poor as I was most of my life, and that's like most of the people voting, I'd vote red.
The reasoning is that both of the candidates don't address the main problems of the society, the last one to do it was Bernie, before him I don't even know, not Obama though.
The problems are education, healthcare, worker rights. You may say the Dem Presidents tried to do something about it but they didn't and actually didn't even try, the problems weren't solved, they are actually worse(not because of their actions, their "actions" really didn't matter and were just for show).
During Trump life got worse, during Biden life got worse, even during Obama life got worse, and now they suggest which kind of "life will get worse" to choose. So as a poor I'd pick the option that's closer to destroying the system altogether than the option that will just make me more miserable to choose another miserable option in 4 years.
I heard a lot(fuck, A LOT) here how Trump will make himself a dictator and destroy the system but if one stupid clown can do it may be it's the government system that's bad. Really bad. And maybe you should address that issue but nobody does.
Maybe you should address the problems that make the people vote for a fucking clown instead of just labelling them stupid.
They are OK with anything. Trump supporter at work wants him to be a dictator. How did we reach this point?
Americans are also watching in horror FYI
Less than 50% of them
Unfortunately, just shy of 50%
Not really. Voter engagement always swings more right than left, the fact the numbers aren't that far off means it's likely more than 50%.
Watch the next Canadian election and be equally dumbfounded / terrified.
At least that election season won't last more than 7 weeks. Instead of this insane 2 year marathon the US has.
Funny, I was watching tv and had a Canadian station on. Every other commercial break was a Pierre Putinfever ad.
In Canada, Elections campaigns can last a MAXIMUM of 50 days.
Somehow, in the past few years, the laws for campaign ads changed (thanks Crtc!) and they no longer fall into the category of a campaign.
And there are newish election laws that set out a 'pre campaign period' that allows further erosion of the campaign time limit restrictions.
That period - anytime after the last election.
Wtf.
Do you guys have term limits? Why is Justin running for fourth time?
No term limits.
An election must be called every 5 years at most. Sometimes an election will be a year or two after the last. The PM can call one anytime.
Technically, the PM is never elected. They're the leader of the party. They don't have to run. Or win.
Hey, remember when the liberal party of Canada ran and won on electoral reform? And then just went "nah bro" and didn't get anything done about it?
Oopsie daisy gee golly isnt governing hard? Not that you would know because youre not in their club and you will never get a chance to govern.
Looks like now you have to vote for the liberals again or yous gets the conservatives again. Ahhh shucks ding dang it. What a conundrum. Quite the pickle ain't it?
Sound familiar?
Our politics are nowhere near as toxic and disturbing as the US. At least our Conservative party respects election results.
The social media chatter during the convoy was all about how jt stole the election.
We have the crazies.
For now. Morons in Alberta fly Confederate flags, they're getting fed the same right-wing bullshit. Everyone thought the Republicans would respect the transfer of power until January 6th.
Ugh make it stop. Watching this past BC election was stressful enough.
The sad part is, as much as I hate PP, I'm so mad at Justin and the libs supporting him for not smartening the fuck up on this. People don't like you, move the fuck on so that your party has a chance FFS. (But for the love of god don't let Christy Clark step in lmao) 😭
This is so. fucked. up. I'm not American (and thank fuck for that), but I'm actually feeling so ill and worried for y'all. I think it's time for me to block/unfollow any American accounts and news cause shit's about to get really fucking bleak.
I’m American. I’m so disappointed in my fellow Americans. And I’d wager around half of us feel similarly disgusted by these results.
Just know not all of us voted for this fascist. I have been trying to organize more and get my friends to organize against this. Clearly civil disobedience is needed, so I think organizing and donating to organizations that support anti-fascism would help.
I went on holiday to the USA this summer. We had time, money, had never been and feared/expected the USA to elect Trump again. Looks like I made the right call. Stay strong USA.
I would do the same. Imagine how ill I feel living here and being surrounded by red states. Woohoo
Lol, don't worry, it's coming for you regardless
With electoral reform, we could have more then two artificially limited options. We could have competition in our elections. We could be free...
But currently you aren't and the options are damage control or burning the house down...
- A French person that was in a similar position a few monthes ago.
We will never have election reform that represents the will of the people, because the capitalist class, which has run this country since its inception through bourgeois revolution, will never allow “tyranny of the majority” reforms. They would sooner unleash fascism upon us than allow real democracy.
I think the first, most realistic progress we can make is to get a few more states to sign the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. It's a agreement between state legislature to assign their electors based on the national popular vote, and it automatically goes into effect once enough states have signed on to guarantee 270 electoral votes.
It bypasses the need to pass a constitutional ammendment that is functionally impossible to get through.
And it's within grasp. Enough states have already signed on for 209 of the 270 threshold (Maine just signed it into law in April), with several states pending for another 50 (e.g. Nevada is waiting on governor'ssignature).
We're shockingly close to killing the electoral college, and nobody seems to know about it.
Trump looks poised to win the popular vote as well. The system doesn't help but the problem is ultimately us, not the system. We have failed culturally, socially, spiritually, emotionally, however else you want to describe it. Look the failure in the face and prepare yourself to deal with it for the rest of your life.
Don't romanticise it. You'll still have a small number of options in total, and you'll be unlikely to shake the dominance of the 2 major parties. You'll still worry about "wasting" your vote on a party who will get low representation. You'll still be disappointed when the centre left don't do anything meaningful. You'll still be powerless when the right hold government. You'll still have trouble finding someone you want to vote for.
Yes it's better, but it's not Paradise.
Source: Lived in New Zealand under MMP for five electoral cycles.
As a NZr, I agree. But it does make smaller third parties viable. In NZ, Greens, ACT and NZ First are all third parties where a vote is not wasted if their block wins
one can dream
The national identity of being Canadian over the last while has been every four years wondering if the downstairs neighbors are going to decide to restart up the meth lab they keep tinkering with and bracing for the sounds of domestic violence to resume.
gives side eye in indigenous Glass houses bro
People in Canada are delusional and think it can't happen to us too because we're the polite maple syrup guys. I've seen the projections for Pierre Poilievre. We are in 2015 America, where everybody thinks "people won't vote for that guy, he obviously sucks", and they aren't right.
Not saying our shit doesn't stink but there's a certain matter of scale to consider. Leastaways we don't have nukes we can hand over to the psychopath we are looking at voting in.
You've described exactly how I feel. And of course, the shit down south is affecting us up here, we have our own lunatic conservatives like Doug Ford, Milhouse and Bernier who aspire to be like the GOP.
Conservatism is a worldwide problem and they all borrow each other's notes. It's not going to be a fun time for us coming up. I can only hope that when the shit hits the fan down there those up here start rethinking their bullshit.
Hey maybe when their meth lab explodes we'll also have a swift death :(
Did someone at the Tim Hortons hear that hoo?
His IQ is currently equal to his amount of felonies
Edit: The fact that this comment has exactly 37 upvotes makes it even funnier
I’m just hoping this comment ages like milk as his convictions pile up with his other trials.
What other trials? Those will never happen now.
So far. He may become a genius over the next year
That's being rather generous...
You're right
America is fucked. Ukraine is fucked. The world is fucked. The only glimmer of hope is Trump drops dead before his term is out.
The issue is that the heritage foundation has put JD vanced to take over for Trump when he dies
He's still there today whispering in Trump's ear. At least if Trump were out of the picture it might derail the presidency and allow some of the weirder weirdos & grifters to be shown the the door. It may also reset republicanism to some degree since they don't have to care what some narcissist dickhead thinks at any given moment or pursue his vendettas. Also it would be karmic.
Let's not forget the two impeachments too
Let’s also not forget that he’s on pre-trial release in two criminal cases, and it’s not just the pre-sentencing release he’s on for cheating in the 2016 election.
Yeah its one thing if youre a trump supporter because then you are just a sheep but i actually dont understand whats going on in the head if those who have to think about the decision
Genuine question, but why is Trump even allowed to run? I vaguely know that there are some restrictions on who can become President (you have to be a certain age and be born in the USA iirc), how can it be that "Hasn't been convicted for any crimes recently" isn't a requirement?
because political dissidents who are in jail for trying to overthrow a dictatorship should also be able to run. it's one of those unfortunate situations where this would be a good thing to have under an authoritarian government...
He is literally barred from running by the Constitution because he committed an insurrection. Unfortunately the House, Senate, and Supreme Court are all somewhere between 50 and 67% Christofascist traitors.
He literally isn't. If he literally was, he wouldn't be running. He literally should be, by a literal interpretation of the law, but that's literally not what's happened.
I feel like they should introduce a rule that says that if you're more bronzer than flesh, you're not allowed to stand.
It's one of those safe-guards that democracy implements that's currently having rather unintended consequences.
The reasoning is that taking away voting rights is far too easy to abuse, and if a majority of people agree with whomever you wanted to prevent from voting/getting elected then you're fucked anyway.
Which, incidentally, is looking like a very real possibility right now.
"But the felon promised me cheaper eggs."
I've been saying this all day now, when the Nazi eventually cries about the higher food prices because they deported all the immigrants our duty is to tell them: shut the fuck up, you voted for this.
Im more impressed than terrified. Choosing a guy who cheated on his wife instead of decrimanalised marijuana AND better healthcare. How???
Egg prices, Gaza, and she didnt have a dick
It's all cyclical.
South America goes socialist and back every other election.And now some idiots believe Trump can bring back the haydays when America ruled the world economically. It's not gonna happen, just even through population math. China India has more people and can build things cheaper, so what are u gonna do?
It is capitalist greed and moving manufacturing to China - what completely eroded US technological advantage. And now same capitalists in US think solution is moving manufacturing to India. Ha. Can't make that up.
Like ok - hes gonna put up some tariffs which is probably right, but this not gonna cancel China manufacturing advantage - they're just gonna sell their cars to the rest of the world. And just wait till comac comes out full force and cancels out Boeing and Airbus.
Like the dumbest thing US did - not fixing shit up with Russia. That's the energy that powers China manufacturing, who even knows if China would be able to compete as they do without Russian energy. But nooo, we need Ukraine hurr durr.
America wasn't built on just immigrants, it was built upon a certain type of immigrants: opportunists who placed greed above everything else. It shows.
The first waves, sure. Once you get to the Irish escaping the famine or the Italians escaping Mussolini, it became more about just survival.
The OGs were racist as fuck towards them, too.
They served as fuel for the social structures the first waves built.
...again
This is an insult to spoons.
A slotted coffee spoon. As much unique as it is useless.
As much as I'd like to make fun of the 'muricans, I'm well aware Brazil would totally do the same fucking thing with jair bolsonaro. Thankfully the fucker is ineligible for another 7 or so years, but his sons are still causing trouble.
For the third time in a row
The writers really know how to keep the audience biting their nails, this season
Every season needs to top the previous one. Wait until you see what’s in store for next season!!!
A silver spoon though.
We really need to run a lead test on that spoon
Jed: Yeah but one's a worman!
The South Park episode about voting always applies. It's always the choice between a douche and a turd. But even between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, one of those choices is still objectively better.
I would not even agree the alternative choice is a turd. Were allowed to have some optimism on our potential candidates.
Apparently not. If you don't do literally everything they want with zero deviation whatsoever then you're garbage and everything is hopeless etc
Don't forget the fake communists bragging that they won't support genocide and that's why they're not voting.
Hey, socialism angels: do you drive a car? Do you emit carbon dioxide that is projected to cause 1 billion deaths, mainly in poorer countries, by 2050? If so, why do you support genocide? You refuse to support genocide one day every 4 years, but actively participate the other 1460?
Yesterday's John Oliver introduced me to the concept of vote swapping and I am so pissed this wasn't pushed for third party/protest voters. Basically, if you live in a swing state and absolutely insist on not voting for the Dems, find someone in a blue state who planned on voting for Harris and let them do a protest vote on your behalf, while you vote for Harris on their behalf. Why didn't I hear about this earlier?! (I live in Germany tho, so maybe it is a thing?)
I did this back in 2000. I wanted to vote for Nader but lived in a swing state, so they connected me with someone in a solidly blue state and we swapped votes. And I'm surprised as you that we didn't do it this time around.
You_IRL
Did you know that with more representative voting systems, people would be free to vote for whomsoever they wish, secure in the knowledge their vote would still be casted against those they don't want in office?
I invite you to my asklemmy post to discuss your recent commitment to replacing First Past The Post voting in your state so people can vote freely.
Drag doesn't drive a car. Drag is improving society somewhat. And drag's state has already implemented ranked choice voting.
Drag isn't arguing against the idea of improving things, drag is complaining that you, personally, don't do it.
We should improve the system somewhat.
Hide
Drive home from democracy and child, reflecting.. this is all a referendum on whether we choose kindness or selfishness going into the scarcity age. If evil wins today, it's not just about this government and this population. It validates whether the uprisings in Europe are a lag behind or a forward trend.
I think it’s time to update and broaden my filter range on Lemmy for the next few years…
Living in the thick of it and that's how I feel 😮💨.
And for some reason, this is called democracy. I love how fellow Americans this time of the 4 year cycle. They become more self aware and stop name-calling people from other authoritarian states.
I know! It seemingly shouldn't be too hard of a choice. Who the Fuck would trust a career politician!?
/J (because scarily, it's needed)
Well fuck.
i love you
career politician
You write 'criminal prosecutor' really strangely.
You cannot spell criminal prosecutor without cop
Attorney Generals are not a police position, they are in fact political. Mostly their office assists various police departments in interpretation of the legal system.
I feel like this is a failure on the democrat side, beating donald should be trivial.
In part, sure. But it's also a failure of the voting public - primarily by not showing up to vote. The historic trend of low voter turnout got us to where we are today since it has enabled a minoritarian party with interests contrary to the vast majority of their constituents to win elections and shape the political landscape in ways that favor them.
It's also a systemic failure since the US makes voting about as difficult as they can - but, again, that is mainly the fault of Republicans who have crusaded for years to repress the votes of minorities, women, and basically anyone who isn't old and white.
It's easy to blame the dems because they should have defended better, backed more pro-worker policies, etc. But if all eligible voters voted, basically no Republicans would ever win elections in this country. Maybe then we could have some actual progress attacking dems from the left.
Repeal of the fainess doctrine has also had a major impact.
people who have voted blue entire life & even volunteered for obama have began to hate dnc since 2016 as it has become a front for superpacs rather than party of progressive policies and genuine leaders. harris biden just come of as too phony when they speak and then you look at their term and feel disgusted for getting scammed by them. no wonder the voter turnout is low when you see them all smug and cheerful launching games and doing comedy after ignoring you for four years.
Most people in here will never admit that. They basically love the status quo, even though it has produced Trumpism. They don't understand how anyone could be dissatisfied with the status quo, so they think we just need to get past this election and everything will be nice and boring again. What they refuse to see is that when people are unhappy with the status quo, you win by offering them other options. Fascism is an option, and strong socialist policies are another.
We blame them because we know the republicans, whose fault this obviously is, are a lost cause. The idea of them being open to being normal or cool just doesn't even occur to us. Which only makes it even more their fault.
Career civil servant*
there is no spoon. seriously though, that level of iq is shared by those very supporters so they are supporting one of their own by their 'logic'.
I will take the spoon please sir.
😜
Well, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture, its hard to deny the facts. Its a corrupt system. I know everyone is all calling trump a criminal for this and that, but its like, yea, hi, welcome to America. The crazy thing is the idea that ANY person in high political office is NOT a criminal. You just don't get that high up in American politics unless you're playing dirty pool. Theres a million things one can criticize Trump for, but it just makes no sense to use the "criminal" argument unless youve spent your life living under a rock.
Professional career politician that supports israel and genocide*
And that makes the rapist felon better?
Didn't say it did.
I have qualms about casting Harris as a "career" politician. He first election for DA was in 2003. To get from running for DA to running for US President in 21 years is a very short ride. She was born in 1964.
Hell, Trump ran for President (Reform Party) in 2000, so he's been a "politician" longer than Harris. So if she's a "career politician," then so is he.
Not that there's anything wrong with being a politician for a long time, as long as the politician is serving her constituents to their satisfaction and avoids corruption.
This is probably the dumbest comment you could have made.
Harris has spent her entire adult life in the legal system, she was hired as a deputy district attorney in 1990. Trump starred on the apprentice and tanked like 6 businesses in that amount of time. Trumps faux run in 2000 does not compare to the 30+ year career.
It's pathetic how anyone will give Trump credit for the stupid, minimal, joke of a job he does but Harris has to jump through flaming hoops to get the credit she deserves.
This take is comical. Trump ran for president in 2000 then did fuck all politically except hoard wealth until the 2016 run. Harris has been in political positions and actively working in politics for over two decades. Regardless of age, if anyone works for 20 straight years at something, it's fair to say they've made a career of that thing.
Besides simple name calling, you really do need to put like 5 more seconds into your complete line of logic. Trump's entire career, in or out of politics, is a flaming pile of shit. How would you even mention Harris and corruption in the same sentence but completely glaze over all the actual evidence of corruption around Trump? Blows my mind the mental gymnastics that must be involved to have any line of thought comparing Trump to ANYONE. He's an abhorrent human not even looking at his failed shitty businesses and disgusting performance as POTUS.
If one of your biggest issues with someone is the 'IQ' maybe reassess your position. he's kinda goofy. He's a fucking fascist, call him that.
Who are you arguing with? Definitely not op because nobody said anything about trump being goofy. And did you miss the bits about rape, racism and felony convictions?
That “career politician” refuses to follow the law, and stop supporting a genocide.
Huh, a post history consisting of nothing but "What did Russia ever do wrong?" and "Dems bad because genocide". How many rubles do you get paid per post?
You mean Putin?
Wait no, they aren't supporting a genocide. They are actively committing one.
📽
New York Times, Feb. 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
