1y ago

Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x07 "Those Old Scientists"

Written by Kathryn Lyn & Bill Wolkoff

Directed by Jonathan Frakes

186 comments

My favourite line in the whole thing is right at the end when Commander Jack Ransom (played by Jerry O'Connell) walks past the poster of Lieutenant commander Una Chin-Riley (played by Rebecca Romjin) and calls her "The hottest first officer in Starfleet history."
For those who don't know, the Jerry O'Connell and Rebecca Romjin are married to each other.
- I thought it was weird and a touch sleazier than we normally see from Ransom, but out of universe that is very sweet!
- I did not know this!! Thank you!!

My expectations for this one were high, but I'm really impressed with how well they pulled it off. Tawny Newsome and Jack Quaid did a great job of dialing their performances back just enough, and the SNW cast went just a little bit broader.

Frakes is, in addition to an iconic Actor, the best Trek Director of the modern age. 11/10.

I cannot believe they had Boimler and Mariner move like physical cartoon characters and pulled it off that well, holy shit. We absolutely lost it when Boimler was tangled in the control panel
- And him doing his walk away from Una the second time. And so many of Tawnie's mannerisms like in the shuttle where she kinda strikes a pose before getting caught. And Quaid's mannerisms and screaming with Spock in the lab.
  Those two really worked to make realistic versions of the silliness they have in LDS and it was magnificent. I caught so much more on second watch.

Boimler exclaiming “RIKER” as he hopped on the saddle had me howling. Frakes is such a sport!
- I saw somewhere that the actor improved that line which means he blurted it out with Riker standing right there which feels totally in line with the tone of the episode they were shooting. It's funny to me on so many levels.
  
  Yep, they confirm it in Ready Room. Apparently Frakes' wife was dying from laughter watching the episode when that happened.
  
  That honestly makes it’s so much better. I’d love to see a behind the scenes for this episode!

Poor Christine Chapel! Now she knows what the audience has always known: her relationship with Spock is ultimately doomed. Plus a delightful mix of guilt and fear that she could unwittingly cause Spock to never measure up to the vague but crucial future that Boimler mentioned to her in the turbolift, simply by trying to make the two of them happy.
That suuuuuucks.
- I really didn't expected the emotional moments, but they were all done so well
- So Boimler inadvertently causes Nurse Chapel to end her relationship with Spock and encourage him to go back to T'Pring?
  
  Predestination paradox. In fact the entire thing is likely a predestinaiton paradox. "Activated 120 years ago", which is caused by the imager at "now"; the reason why the two can go back home is because Tendi told them about the version according to Orion and mentioned her great-grandma being the discoverer, which is what let the past Orion to recognize the truth and probably themselves assigned it to Tendi's great-grandma?
- OMG! They managed to make that scene just so hilarious and poignant at the same time. Watching her facial expressions as she realizes what Boimler is telling her made me want to just scream at him to shut the fuck up and slap the shit out of him...but he's just being dear sweet clueless Boimey. :(
  Theme-wise, I think they're setting up a comparison between Pike knowing his doom and Christine/Spock knowing their relationship is doomed. Knowing that, what do you do in the meantime?

Sooooo many people that never watched Lower Decks are going to be asking why there was a koala in the opening and I'm delighted by that.
- "Why is he smiling? What does he know?"
- I watched lower decks and I'm also confused
  
  I think it's s1e4 of lower decks
  
  The universe is balanced on the back of a giant cosmic koala! WHY IS HE SMILING? WHAT DOES HE KNOW??
- I missed the koala! When does it show up in the intro?
  Edit: found it at 6:46

Loved having a Sunday morning cartoon 🖖
This episode was way better than it needed to be. I was genuinely moved seeing Una's reaction to the knowledge of her being the "poster girl", as well as the reaction of the Orion captain at the end.
Seeing Boimler and Mariner in this context really drives home how much Lower Decks is essentially "what if Trekkies could serve in Star Fleet" and it worked so well!
- Especially the poster girl part being how she (and her lawyer) presented her self in the trial in ep2
  
  Yes exactly! To Boimler it was a major and inspiring story out of history, but to Una it was a personal moment that happened only recently. Imagine being told something you did that you thought was relatively minor (and over) would inspire generations of people in the years to come. Her reaction was perfect.

HE DOES THE WALK
- My wife went nuts when he did it and she’s not even into this like I am.

This episode is one of the best episodes in the modern era of Trek, it's lighthearted it's funny it celebrates Trek and it's done so tastefully that I genuinely have nothing bad to say about it. It reminds me of Trials and Tribble-ations.
Plus that line at the end where they tell Una ad astra per aspera and that's why boimler joined Starfleet is just the right kind of emotions.
Honestly, they smashed it in this episode and ofc the 2d animated intro was chefs kiss.
- This episode is one of the best episodes in the modern era of Trek, it’s lighthearted it’s funny it celebrates Trek and it’s done so tastefully that I genuinely have nothing bad to say about it. It reminds me of Trials and Tribble-ations.
  Alex Kurtzman must have hated this episode, it is the exact opposite of what he wanted to do with Trek. Also why fans love it, because Alex was always wrong about what Trek is about and why it matters to the fans.
  
  Why is it the exact opposite of what Alex Kurtzman wants to do?

Anyone else see Boimler do the Boim-walk to get away from Una the second time with Mariner there? I did not realize human hips could move like that.
- Yes! I did the Dicaprio point at my tv when he started speedwalking.
- My wife was crying she was laughing so hard from that. It was perfect.
- Cracked me up, I laughed so hard at that part.
- Or even just the way he was running to catch up with Mariner.

Thoughts and observations as I watched over at the "other place", special Saturday night/early Sunday morning edition:
AHHHHH, WE'RE DOING THIS ON A SATURDAY!
AHHHHH, WE'RE GETTING THE CROSSOVER!
AHHHHH, A CROSSOVER BETWEEN A CARTOON COMEDY AND A LIVE ACTION DRAMA!
AHHHHH, IN GENERAL!
First off, that they have "Those Old Scientists" as the title is (chef's kiss).
Previously: Nyota had a really bad day, La'An got a bad case of Kirk hotness, and Chapel/Spock had a bad case of hotness for each other
OH GOD WE'RE STARTING ANIMATED
"Numero Una"
Tendi would like to remind you all that the Orions have a rich and varied history.
"You guys look... very realistic."
AHHHH, ANIMATED OPENING CREDITS!
Hahaha, the thing that eats the Ceritos Nacelle!
AHHHH, THE KOALA AT THE END OF THE CREDITS! WHY IS IT SMILING, WHAT DOES IT KNOW!?!?
"But flipping it open is the best part"
"Computer, end program."
"Worf's honor." DANGIT!
I wonder if Frakes showed Quaid how to properly do a Riker maneuver
"You just... laughed."
Ah, we're tying in with what Tendi said.
Boimler is a toddler knocking over furniture.
"We have jetpacks now"
Pike's birthday is a holiday... CRAP!
Boimler freaking out over the fact he made Spock laugh is such a Boimler thing.
Hey, a reference to his sehlat!
I like how they are using this episode to also move the other plotlines forward.
HE MENTIONED PIKE'S REALLY GREAT HAIR
Triticale, as opposed to Quadritriticale.
I totally saw Mariner coming.
Dystopian San Francisco!
"Have you noticed their references are weirdly specific?"
"Hot Spock agrees with me"
"It's a poster that is pinned up"
I feel like Tawny herself probably demanded a scene with Uhura
Ah, there's the Boimler scream!
"Holy Q!"
"They had a Trelane thing going on."
"He had to contour the hell out of the jawline"
"Oh, I already know." Hahaha, they finally got out-future knowledged.
Oh god, are they going to steal a piece of an NX?
Oh, just a piece of it in the Enterprise.
The "Mistress of the Winter Constellations" strikes again!
Of course Ransom calls Una the hottest first officer in starfleet history.
Hahaha, 2D animation Enterprise crew because they are drunk!
All-time classic.
- Of course Ransom calls Una the hottest first officer in starfleet history.
  It's because they are married in real life. Jerry O'Connell and Rebecca Romijn that is, not Ransom and Numero Una.
  
  @teft @startrek That is hilarious!
  
  Oh I didn't know that. Is there some (real life) Star Trek connection that brought them together or is it just some coincidence that they both are on Star Trek?
- Oh, according to the entertainment weekly article Tawny absolutely demanded a scene with Uhura (or at least pitched it to the writers)
- "WHAT THE HELL IS IN THIS THING!"
- Honestly if there wasn't a mention of Pike's Peak why are we even here?
- But seriously what does the Koala know can we even handle such knowledge

My face hurt by the end of the episode. I had no idea I was smiling the whole time. It really was that perfect mix of physical comedy but down to earth. It reminded me so much of The Orville. Definitely one of those I'll go back to watch again.
- My face hurt by the end of the episode. I had no idea I was smiling the whole time.
  Is that you, Mr. Spock?

The danger with these "very special fun episodes" is that they can be confined to being just that. But what elevated this episode is how it used the time travel/crossover conceit to foreshadow, progress and pay off SNW character arcs, including Chapel and Spock's ultimately doomed relationship (something that I've previously said could be incredibly poignant, if handled right), Number One's legacy, and the way Pike confronts his fate. I hope the musical episode does the same.
- They also tied in to Tendi's story on LD (her constant reminding to people that Orions have a culture far beyond pirating), even though we didn't see her in Live Action.
  
  Are Orions now the designated species for calling out how essentialized Star Trek aliens tend to be? Because we have D'vana Tendi, the somewhat obscure Ensign Harral from Discovery, and now the crew of the D'var. You can argue the last one's just an extension of Tendi's character arc, but still, that's three series that have touched on this.
- The hidden line in the episode is that the crew knows they end up as historical icons of Starfleet and thus the line 'I pretended to be somebody I wanted to be until finally I became that person. Or he became me.' this applies to the crew now. It allows them to be more confident in their decisions and become the icons they are meant to be. This episode likely has one of the largest impacts on the character direction of the crew going forward.

They NAILED it. They, somehow, took the loving but self aware fan service of lower decks and jammed it into SNW which has been the most consistent reboot back to the core of this series. This was absolutely some of the best show writing I've seen in a very long time.
- It really was perfectly done. I loved every minute of it.
- This 1000%
- I actually think Lower Decks is closer to the core of Star Trek than SNW. I mean, you couldn't do a "the enterprise got pregnant" episode in SNW
  SNW has been continually frustrating me by almost being great trek but continually falling short. Like, that prime directive episode on the forgetting planet was great, right up until the captain decided to flagrantly ignore the prime directive and destroy a culture's individuality

Holy smokes, I can't believe how awesome that thing was that I just watched. I'm awestruck at the talent it must have taken to pull it off so perfectly.

Frakes has directed two Orville episodes (so far), and arguably brought his experience over to SNW, as Boims and Mariner were fan[boy|girl]ing about, it had serious "Orville" vibes to it. I don't think they could have picked a better director.
The bit where Ortegas and Uhura were gushing about the NX-01 crew and suddenly realizing that's why their guests were gushing was priceless.
"What would come after the dash?"
And both Jack and Tawny crushed it as the live action versions of their characters. (Both were over-the-top, and that was the point).
I wonder if that "Riker!" Gag was improvised and if so, how long it had Frakes (and/or the crew) laughing.
The LD-style intro was chefs kiss perfect. The coda was, likewise, a perfect capstone.
- Watch the Ready Room episode! The Riker was improvised!
- I didn't realize Frakes directed two of the Orville episodes, but makes a lot of sense. He did an amazing job bringing the charm of The Orville into this episode. RE: the intro....YES!!! I was about to skip it, but so happy I watched it. I loved the space-monster sucking on the ship! It is my favorite part of the LD intro, so happy to see it here.

It was ... the best of both worlds.

I just had a smile on my face throughout the entire thing. The intro and outro were such a nice touch!
- Yep. There is no critiquing this episode IMO. They nailed pure cross over fun. All smiles through the whole episode!!

Loved the whole episode! Especially all the little easter eggs like the creature sucking on the nacelle in the animated opening and the shout out to Trelane. This year has been a highpoint in the history of Trek.

That was amazing, on par with Trials and Tribble-ations for a crossover. Loved how well they integrated Boimler and Mariner without losing any of the character as LD has presented them.

Fun episode. I lost track of all the references but I'm particularly delighted that they brought up the NX-01 and her crew, and that the NCC-1701 crew (what even comes after the dash?) is gushing over them, like we all are gushing over all the different Trek crews.
- I deeply appreciated seeing some on-screen Enterprise love, because I feel like Enterprise gets a bum wrap.
  
  To be fair, since it's been on it got an Easter egg reference in the Kelvin-verse and has been mentioned or referenced in most of the new shows from S1 of Dis on. Not only did they name drop Archer in that, they actually expanded on the MU episodes of Ent.

Saw this at the Comic-Con screening and it works better than I expected, especially the physical comedy. The exaggerated cartoon antics are still there, but toned down just enough to not seem out of place in live action.

This was incredible and everything I could have hoped that it would be. 11/10, no notes.
- The only thing I wished was for the Enterprise crew to have been in TAS style art animation at the end. But yeah. Great show!
  
  Still kind of hoping that one year they do a "Trials and Tribble-Ations" tribute episode where they go back to the Enterprise during TAS and splice in the LD guys in in the TAS style.
  They could call it "Those Animated Scientists"
  
  I loved all of it! I liked how they had fun with the crew being in the 2D Lower Decks style at the end, poking fun at it with the dialogue. Then they blamed it on the drinks, so it wasn't really a fourth wall break.
- I have only one note: no live action Tendi or Rutherford :(
  Otherwise: yes, excellent.
  
  Yeah such a shame we didn't get the whole Beta shift gang, but that's like my absolute biggest "criticism" of the episode

"You guys look... very realistic." I guffawed. So thrilled to be watching this episode finally!

The opening sequence is chef kiss
- It took me longer than I'm comfortable to admit to notice it was animated and not the usual intro.
  
  i mean they are both animated. They tried to film on location but the camera operator keeps getting burned in the nebula.

THAT WAS SO GOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!! Couldn't stop smiling through that whole episode!!
They were perfect for their roles in live action as well. Love how they kept their cartoony energy.
- When they're in the corridor and Boimler husslea off, and you see him walking a crazy walk in the background, that really cracked me up.
  
  Section 31 speed walking!
- You know the way Boimler was crawling under the communications panel, with his right legs at a 90 degree angle. It was just so perfect embodiment.

So many people were ragging on this idea. I think the episode firmly shut them up. This was top notch Trek! Fantastic from start to finish. I want more! Now they're complaining about the upcoming musical episode? Haters gonna hate I guess.
- I'm one of the people who was ragging on the idea and I was absolutely fucking right.
  And yes, I'm ragging on the idea of the musical episode, too.
  
  Well I guess not everyone is going to like every episode, or every show for that matter and that's ok. I can't stand Discovery. I gave up somewhere in season 2. Just couldn't take it anymore.

I enjoyed it, fun and different and the ending did make me laugh with Spock's arm. I found I was less invested in the story as I was focused on the character interactions. Overall, I'm fine with it and it didn't have to be anything that is not trying to be.
- I didn't quite get the reference with Spock's arm. Was this supposed to reference something in previous Trek?
  
  I don't think so, I think it's just a joke about him doing things as a cartoon version he couldn't do in real life, and also him tripping balls.

I haven't gotten around to Lower Decks, but this episode was simply brilliant even for me. Just sublime all around.
- Part of why this episode is so good is that Lower Decks is so good. It’s funny Trek that whole heartedly celebrates Trek while retaining the spirit of Trek. If you haven’t seen it, I recommend! Its probably a hard needle to thread, and a vibe, as it turns out, that is evidently resonant with SNW.
  This mash-up/cross-over was not only inspired and well executed, but in many ways probably a fluke of this moment of Trek production which has two separate parallel series that are fun, bright spirited celebratory not-quite-sequel/prequels with their own compelling themes, stories and characters.

An extremely fun episode, had a stupid grin on my face right from the opening.
One thing that jumped out at me was the adjectives used: "scientists, explorers, adventurers." The episode reinforced what Starfleet as an organization and Trek as a concept are all about.

I'm seeing lots of positivity here, so I'll be the boring one. I enjoyed it but they didn't quite land it for me. Things that would have been funny in an out-and-out sitcom felt wrong in the context of a 'serious' Trek show. For example, Mariner and Boimler having a really inappropriate discussion about how hot Spock was, while Spock was right there, during a senior staff meeting - it was a bit too jarring for me. You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional. I think they got this the wrong way round by making it a SNW episode instead of a Lower Decks episode.
Separately though, given that we know Spock and Chapel don't make it, I like that in the two episodes since they got together they have hinted at two separate reasons why they might split up: first the possiblity it's triggered by them having different attitudes to reporting the relationship to Starfleet, and now Chapel's Boimler-induced insecurities about whether she might hold Spock back from doing something great with his life.
- I think Mariner was just in true form. Nonchalant and flippant. The cultural differences are huge especially the technology they've deployed 130 years since the NCC-1701. The way Mariner casually suggests just making more of the element like it's getting a glass of water from the replicator and Boimler gives her a hard side-eye gives you an idea just how different their day to day lives are. Boimler was able to reconfigure the ship and navigate it on his own because the Enterprise is just so archaic by comparison to the Cerritos.
- In reality it's just a factor of the difference between a comedic cartoon and live action, but I sort of love the idea of it being an actual cultural difference between the two timelines, with people in the even more utopian lower decks era having gotten looser and wackier.
  
  The Cerritos is also canonically the silliest ship in Starfleet. Freeman is always struggling to be taken seriously
- You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional
  I don't think it's the difference between 23rd vs 24th century officers, but more a difference between upper deck senior officers and lower decks ensigns.
  
  Also the difference between the flagship of Starfleet and the bottom of the barrel California class. Shaxs would never get away with screaming about the warp core all the time on the Enterprise, and Freeman is constantly struggling to make the Cerritos look like a serious ship to the rest of Starfleet

I'm not racist, one of my friends is ~~Black~~ Orion!

Pelia is quoting Carey Grant when she talks to Boimler. I thought that was neat.
I pretended to be somebody I wanted to be until finally I became that person. Or he became me.

Best episode ever. 11/10, I'm still coming down off the high. Right up there with the LD DS9 ep and the last couple episodes of Picard. Peak modern Trek.

Oh man, I really loved this episode. Very fun. Kinda sad we didn't get to see Tendi and Rutherford live action though. Would be great to see maybe some of the SNW crew end up on the Cerritos...
- In The Break Room it is Tawny and Jack heavily suggest they hope they get to return to the set of SNW. That with Pike repeatedly like "please don't break things" suggests the two crews will run into each other again... I'm hoping Enterprise crew accidentally find themselves on the Cerritos next time!
  
  Also, at the end of the LD Season 4 trailer, Mariner and Boimler mentioned something about "the Pike thing we are not supposed to talk about". Maybe there will be some more LD/SNW developments.
  
  I hope the Enterprise crew gets to walk around yelling "Upper Decks! Upper Decks! Upper Decks!"

This is truly the best Star Trek episode, bar none. Hadn't had goosebumps like this since watching "All Good Things..." back in 1994.

Small note I LOVE that they're extending the "not all Orions are pirates" theme!!! LD did such a great job demystifying a race of people with Ensign Tendi and it only makes sense that their people have always been more than just a stereotype even during the TOS era. Was cool to see Boimler help change that perception with the Enterprise crew and confirmed when the Orion science captain saying "that's all we wanted" about being seen as explorers just like Star Fleet!
- Apparently their visit back in time was always baked into this timeline. Explains why Temporal Investigations didn't get involved. Pretty cool that Tendi, through Boimler, had a hand in building the foundation for better relations between the Federation and Orions.
  
  Yes! Boimler is a great example of an ally here - he tells Pike, who he spends all episode worshiping, directly and politely that his bias against Orions is wrong.

I can confirm that this episode is live on Crave, as well as Paramount+ in the relevant regions.
- What is up with that? It's not supposed to be out until Thursday. That's a heck of a release date slippage.
  
  They released earlier to coincide with screening it at SDCC.
- We were able to watch and record the ‘Special Presentation’ on CTV Sci-fi channel.
  It did however make us watch every single ad, with a ‘skip is not available for this episode’ message.
  There are no other windows for it showing before Thursday, but I am wondering if Bell will add it to ‘On Demand’ sneakily tomorrow.
  
  Always good to get the full television experience.

I loved it. I was ready to be annoyed they didn't do a LD animation style intro sequence but they nailed it; nacelle monster and all. Same for the ending; I was hopeful they would do the end scene LD style and again they just nailed it.

Annotations up at: https://startrek.website/post/462450

What a nice surprise after work on a Sunday!
The episode was bloody tremendous! I knew they were going to appear in SNW but somehow I didn't think it was going to be cartoon and live action together, I thought they would just be sucked into the past and we'd see the real actors. The intro and outro were both great. It was just brilliant all round.

What an absolutely fantastic episode. Loved every second of it! As soon as it finished I just wanted to watch the whole thing again (but couldn’t because of stupid work)
- Did you not learn anything from Mariner? Work is gonna be there still ~~five~~ 45 minutes from now.

This is my all-time favorite episode of Star Trek. Wow, wow, wow ......... wow.

I’ve only seen the first maybe 8 episodes of Lower Decks can I watch this episode without spoiling the rest of the seasons?
- Yeah you’re all good
- Minor spoilers.. there's a Tendi reference that is somewhat important. But all the lower decks references you really need will be explained in the episode.

Definitely one of the most enjoyable episodes of any modern Star Trek episodes if not the best. Love the calls back to the other shows and Star Trek history. I like how the Lower Decks actors played their human characters just as skillfully as they voice them. I loved their connections with the SNW crew. Just beautifully well written. Feels like that it made up for what seemed to be lacking in the previous episode.

The episode was really good. I like the appearance of the Orion Scout Ship we see in "Journey to Babel", one of my favorite ships. It may raise some slight continuity errors, but who cares. Nice ship, nice episode, nice show. Probably one of the best episodes of Trek I've seen.

I'm still giddy about this episode. Possibly the best thing I've ever seen.
One thing I noticed particularly in this episode is how respectful both SNW and LD are of canon and fandom in general - the bit about not all Orions being pirates, for example. I know it originates w/Tendi from Lower Decks, but just in the context of this episode they take the one-dimensional nature of the Orions from TOS, poke a little fun at it, but then make it about the bias that the Federation/Star Fleet has against a culture they really don't understand. The SNW writers effortlessly take what could be considered a flaw or one-dimensional writing from TOS and actually use it to flesh out the ST universe, all while telling a great story.
- Some Orions haven't been pirates for 5 years!

L O V E I T

Fine Fine episode Why are my eyes so big?? The Stafleet logo on the soles of his shoes. Mariner doing her double thumbs up. Her rolled up sleeves being slightly lighter red.
Enterprise love! Why do they talk so loud? Lol. The OPENING CREDITS! With that sucking alien. Glad they didn't have them retreat from danger.

It was fantastic
Someone can explain me the halloween costume pun?
NVM found it here
https://startrek.website/post/462450

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