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How do I alleviate bitterness due to lack of intimacy?

I have given up trying to find a girlfriend. Even though, I am outgoing, have hobbies (I dance, which is actually filled with women), go to parties, talk to plenty of women. But I keep hearing the same thing over and over again: "I am just not so into skinny guys."

I think this is fair from the woman's perspective. I for one am only motivated to date attractive women. So, them not wanting to settle for less actually makes very good sense to me. There is absolutely no hate or bitterness regarding that. Fuck all that: 'all women are removed'-noise.

That being said, I think I should just consider myself celibate by virtue of my own standards. But now bitterness is starting to take hold of me. Bitterness about my life and to me as a person. As I said I am very outgoing and don't want to become the cynical asshole around my friends.

So how do I stop this?

Edit: I go to the gym on a regular basis.

114 comments
  • Much of the advice in this thread is either "Do xyz and you'll have better chances!" or "It's ok to be unattractive, it doesn't mean you're bad! Feel better!". But that doesn't answer your question.

    It hurts, a lot, to not have intimacy for extended periods. It can burn, it can ache, and it can be a slow, subtle sort of pain. It can give rise to bitterness, as you call out, and to anger, sadness, listlessness, frustration.

    Why don't you want to be bitter? It's a painful thing that is happening to you. That feeling isn't wrong, it's telling you something. If you feel a lot of pain and then suddenly stop feeling pain, that is very bad - it usually means you're dying or your nerves are damaged. There's no quick fix or silver bullet that will allow you to hold this like an old stoic, it's just a lot of work.

    There's three places you can intervene: thoughts, words, and actions.

    Thoughts are where this starts. If you don't have bitter thoughts you won't have bitter speech or actions. When you have bitter thoughts, just let them be. Don't spiral - feeling bitter about intimacy isn't great, but feeling bad about feeling bitter strengthens both, and it feeds itself from there. When you notice yourself spiraling or wallowing, just stop. Find a distraction or will yourself better or whatever, just don't let it feed itself. Meditation might help if this mental action is difficult. If you can find a positive channel for these emotions (which is quite hard to find), use it!

    Speech is the first layer where this can affect others, but it's significantly lower stakes than actions. Generally, be conscientious. People can't willingly un-know things so be careful with what you share. Don't vent unless someone willingly signs up for it (which you can ask friends to do!). Don't put this out like it's a problem for someone else to fix or the worst thing that ever happened. It sucks, but it is manageable - you are managing it. When you make mistakes, point and call them. Say out loud "I did/said xyz, that was a mistake because abc, sorry, next time I'll do/say mno instead." This helps make a memory for you and others so you actually fix things and opens the door for feedback.

    Actions will hopefully only come into this positively. Do the things that make good thoughts and speech easier. Learn to recognize how frustration and anger and bitterness feel in your body so that you can better notice+control them in the moment, and so that you can physically release that tension/sensation. If you feel urges to hurt others or yourself seek therapy.

    It sucks. It hurts a lot in ways that many don't understand or sympathize with. And it is itself a significant barrier to intimacy. I haven't figured it all out myself, but I hope this helps. Good luck.

  • In addition to the advice already given, I would suggest you look at mental attractiveness as well as physical attractiveness. Physical attractiveness can be a ton of fun but then when you actually start living with the person if they aren't mentally attractive/compatible with your personality then they can be really hard to live with. Look for someone genuine and kind and into the same sort of things you are.

  • My guess is, that you keep talking to the wrong women or you try to advance into a relationship too fast

    In my experience, both women and men can and often do see past the physical outer and see the personality behind. The appearance is, as you say, the catalyst for initial attraction but if you keep at it, and maybe continue talking with people they should be able to see past their requirement of you not being skinny. If not, they may be using it as an excuse for not really feeling the convection. If they indeed like you as a person but not your body, then you are probably better off without them.

    Also remember. No rellationship, is better than being in a bad rellationship. We all need to go through relationship's to get better at being in one but there is no reason to look for one just to have one. It needs to be with the right person and looks play a pretty small part in this, in the long run

  • I'm going to take a different approach. It's not that the general advice on focusing internally is bad. To the contrary, it's the best advice. But there's other things to do as well to help mitigate what I call "serial rejection response".

    People tend to think that their attraction standards can't change. But they do, constantly, for plenty. They change as we age, as our perspective shifts as we gain experiences, or even just by repeated exposure to other standards.

    Now, I'm going to venture into some shaky territory here, so be aware that there is disagreement in published information about some of this.

    There are multiple things that go into attraction. They one thing that seems universal is symmetry. The more symmetric the face and body are, the more likely people are to find it attractive. It's a pretty objective standard too, with not much room for interpretation.

    However, there's also signs of health and viability as a possible mate. That's where you run into the first thing that can shift. We don't actually have a great ability to read health visually. And there's subjectiveness inherent in what is and isn't considered healthy, and that can change easily.

    A common example of that is acne. Not everyone views is as sign of bad health, but some do. It's also something that is more common in teen and young adult stages. When you're younger, and everyone around you is more prone to acne, you tend to filter it out because it's so common, we just don't see it as a flaw in every case. And there's gradations as to how severe acne is before an individual detects it as a negative rather than the norm.

    Body build is obviously the same kind of thing. It's a subjective, and largely subconscious, "template" that gets built up over time to filter other people into categories of "possible mate" and "nah". But the very fact that it not only builds over time, but can change later in life as we're exposed to more variety, means that it's something that can be adapted to.

    Now, you can actually consciously change what you're attracted to, though it isn't easy, and takes time. This would expand the pool of attraction to give better chances of mutual attraction.

    But, once you realize that the vast majority of people don't know it can change, and that they're just drifting along responding to stimuli they don't even understand, it means you don't need to worry about it as much. It becomes a matter of patience in finding someone, or shifting closer to the local norm of what is and isn't attractive (and there is a large degree of it that is very local, down to town size and smaller; you'll find people at different schools in the same county having different standards as a group).

    This helps remove any bitterness because, once the idea is internalized, you know that not only is it not you being unattractive at all (and everyone is attractive in some way, even if it's very limited), it's just not the right time and/or place. It's a crappy hand to be dealt, but not an insurmountable one.

    You'd be amazed how just moving to another town can radically change how much attraction you receive. Just changing neighborhoods can do it in decent sized cities or towns.

    I promise you, plenty of girls and women like extra skinny guys, the same way plenty like dad bods, massive muscles, trim athletic builds, or chubby to obese bodies. It's all about where and when you are. You, exactly as you are now, may find that women shift towards your body type as you age. Or you might not, but be aware that it isn't universal or permanent inherently. A super thin guy in his twenties is running around asking out women roughly in the same age group most of the time, and that could be a grouping that's locally only into dad bods as a majority. But they get older and change too, so you run into the ones that shift towards your type.

    And, obviously, not only will your tastes change over time whether you want it or not, you could start work on finding the attractive qualities in a wider range of women. People think of this, and talk of this, as "lowering standards", but that's bullshit. That way of thinking assumes that any given set of standards is right solely because the person using the term thinks their standards are better. And, again, that's bullshit.

    As an example of that, if I dig thicc ladies, but have no luck with them, it isn't lowering my standards to date someone that's model skinny, it's just a different standard. If I didn't like that kind of body type, I would have to work at seeing the good parts to change the "template" in my head that says attractive or not. I'm lucky in that I've never really had a type, but I do have greater or lesser attraction to different types. I have successfully changed that over time though, multiple times, partially just to see if I could.

    Seriously, do a little thought experiment here. Find someone you don't find attractive that's with someone. Ask yourself what they see in them. Then look for it, because I promise you it's there. They're using their internal template, probably without thinking, and found a match to it. Once you start realizing that there are things in people you aren't attracted to that are attractive anyway, you start to look at looks in a new way.

    This is getting long, so I won't bore you with anecdotes about my own life and how this works. But I will end with something to think about. Ever know an old couple? The kind that sum still kiss and hug, and make googoo eyes at each other, call each other beautiful and handsome. They exist. And they are attracted to each other, and likely always have been despite the fact that neither of them would have been attracted to the other fifty years prior.

    Remember that, and you never need be bitter.

  • Cast a wider net. Maybe the place you are in is too small for you. Save up money and travel to inexpensive places. Focus on your happiness, it will be obvious to others and make you more appealing.

  • I'm not sure you age but from what I understand, many people between 20-40 have been having issues finding genuine relationships and "situationships" are on the rise. I know several people that claim to be happy having 2-3 half commited partners (whom often also have other partners), but i don't believe they are that happy, especially compared to a genuine relationship.

    As others had said try to just stick to your own personallity and focus on your own happiness, changing yourself or your standards just to get laid often doesn't work. When i was going through a phase of depression i started seeing a partner whom couldn't commit to me the way i desired, but i stuck around anyway because it was a nice distraction from my life. A few months later we called it offand there was a fair amount of emotional pain. The relationship was kinda of toxic as well and I'll probably carry scars from it into my next one. Even just the memories, good or bad, are constant distraction some times. My overall point is don't commit to it if its not what you genuinely want, good relationships have been on the decline for a while so its not always your fault if you can't establish one.

  • I sympathize, sorry that you're feeling this way. It sucks to not have someone to be with. I don't know if it'll help much, but I thought I'd share my story too.

    I'm 2 years out of an 8 year relationship. I think I'm damaged to say the least, but I was damaged even before then. I struggle to connect with people, and breaking the physical barrier is also really difficult for me. I wish I was better at it, but I'm just kind of an awkward dude. I can be a bit uncomfortable in my own skin sometimes.

    I met a girl recently and I thought things were going really well. We had lots of common interests, and the raport between us was really great. I was genuinely excited to get to know her as a person, and to be spending time with someone again. I was hopeful, and happy. It was nice to think that I might have someone I could actually share with again. I don't want to wallow in self-pity or anything, but I'm in my 30's and I'd be lying if I said the general disconnect I usually feel hasn't affected me on some deep level.

    We were hanging out one day and things were going well up until I attempted to kiss her. It's such a dumb thing to blunder, but my bad timing, awkward word choices, and even my incorrect physical positioning caused me to rush things and not really give the moment a chance to unfold organically. I don't know why I get like this, it's very ammature and probably the quality I dislike the most about myself. I think maybe I'm just scared to fully allow myself to be vulnerable to people. I don't really think I'm a bad kisser in general, I'm actually great at other physical/intimate things, but I just kind of messed this one up a bit. I allowed myself to be overly nervous/anxious, and I just wasn't at my best. Mistakes happen sometimes. That was all it took though. She went from being pretty engaged with me to generally disinterested just like that. It sucks because It made me feel like her entire decision was based on this one failed interaction. I don't want to sound stuck up or something, but I think I deserve better than that.

    I found out there were other factors too though. She was already interested in someone else at the time she was hanging out with me. It feels kind of pathetic to admit it, but I think I just got outcompeted. I know that I should give myself some allowance for the fact that there was nothing that I could do about that aspect, she's entitled to her choices, but she wasn't very forthright with me either. She led me on, and stood me up on plans to hang out. That was really selfish behavior on her part.

    I know that girls do this sometimes for fear of hurting guy's feelings, but just don't. Be honest, and transparent with us, it's easier for everyone in the long run. I think I deserved a better chance than what she gave me, and if she was that superficial already then she probably wasn't right for me anyway. It sucks, but that's where I'm at with it right now. I'm not hateful towards her or anything like that, just disappointed really.

    I don't know really where I'm going with all this, but just suffice it to say that understanding and learning from relationships is difficult sometimes. I think I'd just say to try not to give up if you can help it, but if you feel like you need to go into self-preservation mode then that's ok too.

    Best regards tall skinny internet stranger.

  • Just remember Mario, your princess is in another castle.

    You could start doing single activities, depending on where you live. Even if you don't find someone right for you, you could hang out with people in the same general situation.

  • This is why I feel like the whole "body positivity" movement is a god damn joke. It's mostly about women who love munching cake more than having unclogged arteries. In the last decade we got so many shows and movies where the characters can be morbidly obese and everybody should praise them for their bravery. We got even plus sized manikins in stores, wow.

    But I dare you to name a single character from a show or movie that is skinny (not jacked skinny, but skinny skinny) that isn't a crackhead junkie, some psycho or a basement dweller with his eyes glued to a screen?

    Hell, just name a Hollywood actor that is skinny?

    I know one, DJ Qualms, who's arguably most famous role is a disabled person. Great.

    I really don't blame women for not preferring skinny guys, I blame Hollywood for 3 decades of horrible PR.

    • That's a very surface level glance at the movement. Don't get me wrong, it is about women who "love munching on cake" because those women should be able to do whatever the fuck they want and still be respected and treated with dignity(I also can't ignore that it's an issue for fat women, but not fat men?) . You don't have to find fat people attractive, hell, you don't even have to like them, but that doesn't mean that person should be condemned to a life of solitude and ridicule until their body is good enough for society. Life is too short for that. Even if you're working towards health, you should still get to experience the world today. However, that's one piece of of the movement, it is also about stopping the "real women have curves" ideas, and putting body types against each other. It's about how leading men are showing casually jacked forms like that's just what the average guy looks like. It's about men not drinking water before shoots to see their muscles better, even if it leaves them dangerously dehydrated. It's about men who are ridiculed or turned down for their height alone. It's about men like OP who think their body type isn't good enough, it's about the women OP met who automatically deemed OP's value by his apperence. If your complaint is that there aren't enough representations of male body types, that is part of the body positivity movement. These desires are not opposed to each other, but to do one, you have to do the other. You can't have a message of "All these bodies are great, except those." It shouldn't matter how the body got the way it is, or even if the body is healthy. It deserves respect. I don't chastise and belittle thin people, or even "too thin" people, and go, "you need to eat a sandwich. You need to lift weights. I'm just worry about your health after all. God, just eat more. It's not hard." If they're not friends or family, it's none of my fucking business.

      For some reason fat people feeling good and desirable about their bodies seems like the worst fucking thing for whatever reason. We have had people doing all kinds of drugs and harmful practices to stay thin, or avoid that ridicule. Fat shouldn't be a social death knell. A condition, sure. Not healthy, fine. Not worth being seen or existing? Not fine.

    • We got even plus sized manikins in stores, wow.

      you do know that's because plus-sized clothing exists too, right? Do you expect stores to just not display their clothes simpy because they're for fat people, or...?

      But I dare you to name a single character from a show or movie that is skinny (not jacked skinny, but skinny skinny) that isn't a crackhead junkie, some psycho or a basement dweller with his eyes glued to a screen?

      Victor, from Arcane; Ben Wyatt, from Parks and Recreation; Gareth Keenan, from The Office (UK); Ken Cosgrove from Mad Men. I'm sure there are many more, but that's just who I could think of off the top of my head.

      I absolutely agree that there should be better representation of men's (and women's, imo) body types, including skinny men. But you're really overestimating the quantity and quality of decent representation of fat women in roles that don't rely on steroetypes. By that, I mean: isn't unhinged/shrill/creepy/portrayed as gross or undesirable because she's fat (and sometimes old)/there solely and shallowly as "the funny fat woman". The majority of roles played by women, especially prominent ones, are still played by thin women.

      Fat female characters are relatable and important to have because—whether you like it or not—fat women exist in real life. One simply existing in media does not inherently come with a statement condoning any particular lifestyle as you seem to be implying.

      I know one, DJ Qualms, who's arguably most famous role is a disabled person. Great.

      ...and? That's a bad thing to you?

114 comments