1y ago

Are humans the only great apes that can be "holy", or could, for example, an Orangutan be divine?

84 comments

It's a made up definition which varies depending on whose fairytales you believe.
- Factually correct but irrelevant in the context of the LARP
- This is a blatantly unhelpful answer.
  
  It is the only correct answer.
  
  This is a blatantly pointless reply.
  
  While being antitheist in tone, it is the correct answer.
  If you look at Abrahamic religions, humanity is at the top of the pecking order and is separate from animals. In that mindset, an orangutan can't be devine.
  If you look at Hinduism or Buddhism, animals are thought to be sentient beings that have the same souls that humans have. There are even past life stories within these religions where the religious figure is an animal. In that case, an orangutan can be divine.
  You may also have cases where the animal represents a deity, making the animal devine in that sense.
  
  Unfortunately not all of us are blessed with spren and Nahel bonds to prove the existence of the supernatural to us, so it’s understandable that some react negatively to all discussions of it.
  Journey before destination, Radiant.

Depends on which philosophy you ascribe to I suppose. While standard Judeo-Christian philosophy would most likely dismiss the notion of divine orangutans, I for one would posit that orangutans by thier very nature are divine and that humans may in fact be the only creatures on the planet that must struggle toward divinity.
- Edit: my network is being just, like, absolute crap. I don't know why it posted multiple times. Such is the life of rural America, living with a 4g hotspot for home internet. Lol. Apologies!
  I'm a sort of hodge podge of different traditions, philosophies and religions, and this is absolutely my view. In Hinduism, one of the reasons humans are at the "top" of the reincarnation cycle is because we have the intellect to understand things like karma, and are able to achieve liberation through that understanding. In my view, while we may be the only ones able to achieve liberation, we are also the only ones building up negative karma. It's a double edged sword. Animals, plants, bacteria, they don't do wrong things, they don't engage in wrong thinking. They act on impulse, on intuition, on instinct, and as such, they're pure spirited. Humans on the other hand are capable of evil, and as such we are the only species on earth that must struggle towards divinity. We just also happen to be the only species that can understand the nature of divinity. You don't think the universe be like it is but it do, y'know?
  
  I’d like to point out that chimpanzees are pretty evil, but then again they are a great ape as well
  “That piece of evidence allowed the researchers to link the murders with a motive – that of gaining new ground.”
  https://www.livescience.com/8316-chimpanzee-gangs-kill-land.html

Yes.
Proof:
- Lock the thread, we have our answer.

Harambe, blessed be thy name, he died for our sins.
- Valid. RIP

If anything's divine, it all is. Picking and choosing what's divine and what's not is just people making up stories to suit their own purposes. In the end, concepts like "divine" and "holy" are not very useful and often harmful.

This seems like a question for your preferred religious representative, not Lemmy.

I mean one of the greatest miracles you see religion do is interpret the bible to say what they want it to say. This is why you get one branch saying the LGBTQ+ community is horrible and another branch welcomes them with open arms. The same can be said about any social debate.

Ook?
- Use your words
  
  He did. Just because you don’t understand the Librarian doesn’t mean he wasn’t using words.
  Just make sure you never use the “M” word around him. He doesn’t like that. Orangutans are apes, no “M” involved.

Hindus literally have a monkey god.
- This is a fantastic point. Thank you for adding it to the discussion.

Man is just another animal, typically worse than those that walk on all fours. Which is to say, no; there is no divinity to be found in mortality. Neither in man, nor orangutan, neither in eukaryote or prokaryote.

what does mean divine mean, I feel like that is a far bigger question then what you're asking
- Good thought. I will think about this next time I’m in the shower.

I would say that a species intelligent enough to believe in God could be divine. So I don't think orangutans or gorillas would be, but we have archaeologic evidence that Neanderthals had some form of religion, so they may also have souls.
- Interesting perspective!

Spinoza has a good quote that I reflect on often.
"I believe that a triangle, if it could speak, would say that God is eminently triangular, and a circle that the divine nature is eminently circular; and thus would every one ascribe his own attributes to God."- Spinoza
So, anything can be divine if there is something that prescribes divinity to it.

The eternal question : Does a dog have buddha nature? https://buddhaweekly.com/the-gateless-gate-and-the-door-of-mu-does-a-dog-have-buddha-nature-and-other-breakthrough-koan-riddles/

From what I've heard, the Bible doesn't count animals as having the same spiritual level as humans. However, I disagree with this idea, and honestly believe osme animals are just as spiritual power as humans, considering some are very intelligent and just down right good.

I look like an orangutan but I'm not divine or owt

"Monkey" has the word "monk" in it. Coincidence?

Divine is a space you create with your will (Yi) and soul (Shen). Put in it what you want.

Humans aren't great apes.
- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae
  
  If you're ok with being put alongside your family in the same row as some feces throwing hairy animals, because some guys - that might as well change their opinion tomorrow - told you it's ok, I'm not going to stop you.
  Me? I don't feel much kinship with gorillas, thank you very much.
- How are we not great apes? I've taken 2 whole anthropology classes and this is the first I'm hearing of this! /s
  For real, though, would love an answer. These things interest me.
  
  How are we not great apes?
  How can Pluto cease to be a planet overnight?
- Mid apes.
  
  Dank apes
  
  Only from the perspective that sees camels as "mid dogs", probably...
- Sure they are. Why do some humans think they are better then other animals and not part of nature?
  
  There's an enormous gap between "we're better than SOME animals", and "we're no part of nature". It's so vast, that you could throw whole flotilla of USA's Navy inside and it wouldn't even cover its bottom.
  And yet, you managed to cross this distance in a single mental leap. Nicely done.

84 comments