What I mean is that lemmy.ml is an explicitly communist-apologist instance*, and that anything that is supportive of Biden, even when it's solely about minimizing other harms to marginalized people, is quickly deleted. Comrade Dale is depicted as being a tankie that the soyjack says can't support Biden.

...But it was deleted by tankie mods, because they can't support Biden even if the only realistic alternative is many magnitudes worse.

*To be clear, I have no issues with libertarian communism; I think it's great, and I'm mostly anarchistic myself, even if I recognize that pure anarchism doesn't scale well to countries. I have a problem with authoritarian communism, and I have a problem with people that would hand-wave all the massive amounts of murder committed by Lenin, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, and many other communist dictators.

tbf its kinda wild OP identifies as a Tankie when he's capable of understanding lesser evils

At this point, I'm pretty sure this rhetoric is a result of deliberate ignorance about FPTP.

There's only so many times we can explain elementary math to you people.

Communism isn't about identity and moral superiority. It is about making strategic decisions that enable the ultimate revolution of the working class to do away with capitalism, that includes tactical, cynical decisions at times. Some communists tried to do the whole "never voting on principle" or "only voting for the perfect fringe candidate" bit already, so we know how that turns out - sectarianism removed from class, and underestimating the enemy. Think of how some communists thought if Hitler got elected, Germany would finally have a revolution - turns out, no, it just led to the last bit of the mask of humanity to fall off capital and them being killed in the most brutal fashion. That mask of humanity may be a lie and indeed just a mask, but it has real effects, and the inhumanity can always get worse.

The big project in these times of reactionary drift globally is to build as much organised proletarian power as is possible - catch and organise those that fall from the middle class, learn how to use guns and fly drones, learn how to coordinate as a movement, learn how to support each other in day-to-day life, gain some class consciousness. While those that lack consciousness and still hold dreams of escaping their proletarisation within capitalism enable fascism, as long as they can cling to the ideological dream of the wealth of the past without realising the very system that enabled the old wealth already had the crises of today within it.

Thinking its the same to organise all that under a senile proto-fascist like Biden compared to a full-blown fascist like Trump and his allies is genuinely foolish. It reads like an utopian socialist dream about moral fortitude and self-serving identity instead of trying everything that can materially advance the working class and its consciousness.

You're right which is why we should not vote and let the current genocide continue and add several more to the list when trump gets elected. Genocide for everyone!

Ok I'll bite. What would you have people do instead and how do you think that would go if they did?

…. Said the .ml, thinking they’d be taken seriously.

You can choose between the genocide abroad, or at home. You lot read to me like you weigh Palestinian lives as more important than mine

But communists are notoriously genocidal

See that makes it sound like you're getting called out on much more anti-voting sounding commentary than the above stated point of view

An image that isn't helped by the fact that the post makes it seem that you are completely oblivious to how often tankies try to start fights defending the choice to abandon the most vulnerable for the sake of some bougie kid socialism accelerationist shit.

And yet y’all will happily dismiss anybody who is to the right of you (or a different flavour of left from you) as a ‘lib’. 🤔

Buddy, the meme wasn't about you, clearly. Why are you simping so hard for tankies?

Til

several hundred years ago we had the choice between electing a slaveowner that fucked his slaves vs a slaveowner that didn't fuck his slaves. Now we get to pick between a genocidal warmonger bent on keeping us all in debt servitude that is pro trans rights vs a genocidal dictatorship that is against trans rights.

Biden sucks ass, stop gaslighting us if you want us to vote for your shithead

I understand where are you coming from. But you honestly believe that a person that enables genocide abroad isn't evil?

Biden is presiding over the most progressive/liberal administration in U.S. history. That doesn't mean it's liberal enough but it sure as hell beats any previous administration by a mile.

He’s not the lesser of two evils.

I wish Americans had enough of a heart to give your average Palestinian the same benefit of the doubt as Strom Thurmond's best friend.

The outcome of this election is either Trump or not Trump, The election system has been specifically fine-tuned over decades so that it strongly favours Trump's party, despite him having fewer votes overall. There is one other party that is financially entrenched enough to have a chance at being voted, realistically.

Tackling the entire election process to actually catch up to democracies worldwide is a whole different topic altogether and realistically not achievable before this particular election, so if you are talking about preventing Trump via election (before Trump factually prevents being elected out of office during his term), the choice between either Trump or Biden is the reality.

"Blue MAGA" is straight up propaganda. If you think these two parties are alike enough to address democrats like that, you either have an agenda or are woefully uninformed.

It boggles the mind sometimes.

There are dictionaries that tell you what the words "liberal" and "conservative" mean. Quit relying on your own snazzy spidey-sense and check them out.

But abortion rights were lost because people refused to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016.

I get this. Democrats are not left enough for me but all said and done I would love to live in a world where carter had a second term and a gore administration was running things for the top of the millenium and have hilary over trump and who knows she might have surprised us with some good stuff but at the least we would not have left the paris accords which might have done better with gore and no iraq invasion. maybe we would have had a war on global warming.

I don’t know whether or not that is true, but it is meaningless without considering what the other hand has also done in that period.

So you don't actually know if it's true but you have vague feelings that it's not what you want so therefore it's not true. Ok then.

Can a president realistically control that? They don’t control inflation.

Ah yes, FDR, who rounded up Japanese Americans and put them in concentration internment camps.

Which is a rather interesting parallel to Biden and Palestine, or Biden and US border patrol, or Biden and law enforcement.

All that to say it's probably not possible to be the US president and not do heinously evil shit, and therefore voting for president needs to be strategic, pragmatic, and nuanced, rather than ideological

There hasn’t been anything close to a leftist president in America since FDR.

How FDR Saved Capitalism | Hoover Institution

During the economic crisis of the 1930s, many expected a socialist revolution. The revolution never came. Why? The man in the White House co-opted the left. By Hoover fellow Seymour Martin Lipset and Gary Marks.

🤡

I heard that argument in 2016 and it hadn't become any less false than it was then.

33.1% of eligible voters didn't vote in 2020, 40.8% didn't vote in 2016. Your priorities are misplaced. You should be more concerned about these nonvoters, they outnumber third party voters seventeenfold and are far less stubborn.

You haven't changed my mind.

My only regret in 2016 was not living in a swing state. I know how ftpt works.

Democrats can earn my vote by implementing ranked choice voting. They're a solid 3rd choice pick on the ballot.

If it wasn't for democrats and republicans spoiling the election, yes!

Is there a party without rich fucks? I would prefer that but I'm yet to find one.

I can't my head around how voting Republican stops genocide...that is a leap in logic my brain just isn't doing.

If trump wins, he voted for trump. That is how spoiler votes and non-voting works in our system.

The people with his absurd mentality are quitters. If the worst comes to pass, and the world suffers harshly for it, I trust history will remember his ilk in the exact same vein as MAGA.

If, 30 years from now, the choice is between a democrat who wants 5 genocides and a republican who wants 10, will you still cling to American electoralism as hard as you are now? Will you still be militantly democrat?

This logic isn't sustainable.