Biden’s debate performance sets off alarm bells for Democrats
Alarm bells are ringing among top Democrats over the 2024 presidential race and President Joe Biden’s political future, with the president’s debate performance leaving some to openly question whether Biden can stay atop of the Democratic ticket.
Biden is well past his prime, had a shitty performance last night, hate his record on Israel, but I’m still voting for him because he’s not Trump and I’d prefer that our representative democracy continued. Moving to a braindead, functionally illiterate dictatorship just seems like an all-around worse move in every respect. Not sure about his chances, but whatever, there’s not really any other alternative at this point.
Can you tell me what makes you believe that Trump is or will be a dictator? Don't use Jan 6th.
I can waste my time going through that exercise, but it's pretty clear to any thinking person that that's what the plan is on the Republican side, just look at the words, rhetoric and actions they've been taking for the past 10+ years. Otherwise, you're maliciously asking me to go through the mental effort of writing up an attack on Trump that you've already decided to ignore and/or counter with some feeble bad faith argument. You're a waste of my time and everybody else's.
Don't use the time he instigated a coupe attempt as a reason?
Can you tell me why putting my hand on an electric burner that is red hot is a bad idea? Don't use anyone's past experiences being burned by hot objects.
Sure you could technically go into a complex explanation using physics as to why it's a bad idea, but why?
So - ignoring the time he sent a mob to try and overthrow the US government, how about we use the fact that he literally said he'd be a dictator?
Or maybe the fact that his legal defense against trying to overthrow the government was that the President is immune from all crimes. His lawyers even literally said he could have his political opponents murdered, and so long as the surviving politicians don't impeach and convict him he can't be held liable for it.
They're arguing a legal framework under which he can murder the opposition, and then kill anyone that tries to remove him from office.
Bake me a bread, but don't use any flour or water!
Lol
"Do not use an incredibly concrete example"
His own words at 55 seconds. Typically the people who say "I'll only take power temporarily" never give it back.
Only for one day, wink wink.
He told Hannity he would be dictator for one day. No dictator goes one day. One is too many to begin with.
Heitterslly said he would be.
Lol at supposedly asking an open question, while simultaneously stipulating that the open rebellion cannot be mentioned. That’s not how open questions work.
He said he would in exactly those words.
Don't use Jan 6th
explain why you think he's authoritarian, but don't talk about that time he instigated a failed fascist coup
I'll admit, if you move the goalposts like that it gets a lot harder to score.
Not American, and hate Trump and Biden equally. I say vote Trump. He's the slim shady of US politics - he's only giving you things you say with your friends inside of your living room, the only difference is he's got the balls to say it in front of you all and don't have to sugar coat it at all.
So instead of avoiding your discomfort of acknowledging what the US is, just vote trump and let it be clear to everyone
Or not. It doesn't matter what you do, Trump is winning anyway. You guys are going to have cheetos man for president whether you, or we, like it or not.
I’ve never seen someone so blatantly tell on themselves as you have in this comment.
Yah fun things to talk about like "hey, isn't it interesting how you have less medical rights now." Jfc
The fire alarm has been going off for 5 years and they're just now noticing the fire.
Yeah, while the republicans have basically openly moved to reactionary and fascist politics, thus implicitly accepting the status quo is over, the influential parts of the Democrats seem to have been clinging completely to the idea that the status quo is what is to be preserved - even though material reality will not make that possible.
Right now, we seem to be in a historical moment, where old privileges are breaking away from a continuing crisis in capitalism that basically has been smouldering since the (late) 70s and kept stable through neoliberal policies thus far. Old privileges being lost results in a reactionary shift worldwide at the moment. It will be harrowing, but there is at least always the possibility of the pendulum swinging the other way - right now, in the coming years, organisation, connecting people, openly presenting radical alternatives to prepare for that moment seems to be the most important work to me.
You are a hexbear lmao. You suck up to dictators around the world. I dont think we can take your comment serious since you always argue in bad faith.
Still better than Trump
If Biden dies and his tombstone is running for president, I’d still vote for his tombstone over trump.
This isn't even a joke... Like, I keep hearing my conservative family members express that they can't vote for "someone with dementia". Glossing past Trump's many, many, many senior moments, it comes down to the fact the president is supported by an entire cabinet.
If Biden gets poo brain, he's going to rely on his cabinet. If Trump continues down his poo brain path, he will never rely on a cabinet (especially since it's full of yes-men). He will just let the dimentia drive him, just like he did in his first term.
E.g. Airports in the 1700s, convincing everyone covid isn't that bad prior to a vaccine, posting "white power" to his Twitter, tear gassing protesters for a Photo OP where he holds a Bible upside-down. I could go on, and on, and on...
But sure, let's all pretend Biden's old man brain is a real serious problem. Because sometimes he... ::checks notes:: falls on stairs, and fumbles words.
These clowns voted for fucking George W. Bush, by the way.
LOOOOOOOOOOOL
You know it is pretty bad when a bunch of CNN commentators think he got smoked.
CNN got bought out by right wing media a little while ago iirc
Doesn't mean they're wrong.
Think? They know, we all know. The world knows. The proof is in the pudding. People have been saying it. Biden is NOT capable of existing independently (needs assistance just for directions), much less of being a president.
Trump would only win if the Democrat party found someone seemingly more inept than him.
I am impressed that the Democrat party managed to present not one, but two outstandingly incompetent candidates. In a row. That's some bottom of the barrel advanced scraping techniques right there. They even managed to get a representation of both sexes.
I'm sure Mr. Biden will be terribly distraught, as soon as he is able to understand what's happening around him at the moment.
The Democrats are still stuck in this post-Clinton seniority mindset where they unofficially pick a candidate before primaries even begin, based on who has been around the longest and who has held the highest position. Remember "it's her turn"? Yes, yes, I know it didn't work against Obama, but heading into the debates everyone assumed Hillary would be the candidate until Obama put on the better show. More to the point, I think Obama breaking through scared the establishment Dems into doubling down on primary fuckery. See what happened to Bernie, twice. So now we have a president who knows all the right people but plays politics with the 1990s rulebook and has a terminal case of crusty old man voice.
Still better than Trump.
Obama has absolutely absurd charisma. He's the Democrat version of Trump - knows exactly what to say to his base and knows how to convince moderates he's not insane.
Clinton and Biden have the charisma of a limp noodle. Sanders has absurd charisma, but he's seen as too big of a threat to Democrat lobbyists and big corporations.
Sanders would've mopped the floor with Trump because he would've actually been able to grab the 18-44 demographic (which last saw peaks in 1992 Clinton/Gore and 2008 Obama/Biden, both to unseat a Republican and, coincidentally, a Bush).
Sanders would have been able to avoid the collapse in turnout from working-class Black people in 2016.
Sanders would've stopped the increasing right-wing radicalization of the youth of America, or provided a counterweight for left-wing economic radicalization.
The US federal elections are basically a pony show and the DNC doesn't know how to play the game without throwing out their playbook.
This is about a succinct of a deconstruction of the DNCs hand in this cycle as I’ve seen. They’re effectively Ned Stark
He literally is an old man. Which is the core issue.
I do not understand how Elizabeth Warren didn't get more interest 4 years ago. She was clearly the best candidate and one who has the kind of broad appeal Bernie Sanders does. I think I'm at a point where my belief is that the bankers who are probably gonna vote Republican anyway who fund campaigns very explicitly don't want someone like Sanders or Warren to be president
The Democratic establishment doesn’t want people who go after their donors. Mainly big banks, but also pharmaceutical and insurance companies which if you ask me all need to be reformed and heavily regulated and a lot of people need to go to prison for what they’ve done to the country over the past 24 years. But hey, who am I, just somebody who wants better for the country that doesn’t have to do with sucking rich cocks.
One-fucking-hundred percent.
Warren was my choice over Bernie for strategic value even though I like Bernie more. If we didn't have explicitly Republican propaganda outlets I think conservatives would have been more comfortable with her too as she was once a Republican and understands business law.
Hell she literally wrote the book on my, and others, biggest issue "the two income trap" where society has defined economic success by "family income" instead of individual incomes. People like myself suffer because we're perpetually single so we only have one income. Family income says everything is rosy because it's now 2 incomes. :(
Seriously though, I don't follow American electoral politics much, but why didn't they swap him out for someone else? It's a country of ~330m people. Like even the likes of Blinken would have been acceptable to them surely? What's the actual reasoning?
There's some stupid adherence to precedent where we don't primary an encumbant because in the past it didn't work out well. So now we shut our eyes and pretend he isn't absolutely one of the worst candidates ever because we refuse to primary him.
An old American tradition to not run a primary during a President's second term who is running for office. I guess it's supposed to help unify the party behind a proven winner or something. That's mostly it. Liberals love traditions, guidelines, and rules more than anyone.
Welp, we’re fucked.
No. We're "un-fucked".
We cant win with Biden.
We CAN win without him.
Finally the dense mother fuckers who have been denying Biden's inadequacy have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into reality.
We'll have a brokered convention (like all conventions before 1970's), we'll get "generic corporate democrat", and they'll be instantly polling in the low to mid 50's and we'll actually have a fucking chance.
Biden has had no chance at winning this election at any point in his candidacy. Ever. Look at the polling. Look at the data. He's never stood a chance and plenty of people here and elsewhere have been trying to get this through some extremely thick skulls that have basically been insisting that we need to run an un-electable candidate.
Well the goose is cooked. The rat is out of the bag. Here comes the moose or whatever. He's done. Adios Biden, don't let the door hit you on the way out. You did fine on some stuff but wow you fucked up on Gaza/Israel.
Minutes after that debate Newsom was on MSNBC. We're gonna get Newsom, or maybe Inslee; a way smarter choice would be Witmer or Andy Beshear.
And guess what? Litterally ANY GENERIC CANDIDATE PUTS 10 POINTS BACK ON THE BOARD.
Bam. Switch candidates and Democrats are instantaneously back in this race.
This probably doesn't work, and it's probably not as good idea as anyone hopes (genuinely or not). It might happen anyway, but no matter what, we're coasting toward a second Trump presidency, just like all the Russian agitprops here wanted all along.
If Biden is polling down 10 points or worse at the convention, they could drag someone else onto the stage, but my suspicion is that no one else outperforms him on short notice, even after his abysmal performance in the debate.
A few reasons:
LOL. A lot of flowery language there but not much substance. The Dems can't switch now. Trump can instantly snatch on to that and attack whoever replaces Biden as an inferior desperate backup. Trump will say you Democrats have no idea what they're doing and they can't even stand behind their incumbent. This isn't only about 2024 but also about the midterms. Who would vote for a party that backstabs their incumbent?
@remindme@mstdn.social 5 months
Your party (Democrat) is peppered with bad elements for the U.S. (Marxist, Socialist, Communist etc..). You mentioned a staunch communist, Newsom. Look at the disaster he made California into. The droves of companies and citizens leaving or have left California. The silly penalty he plans to implement for Californian residents who leave the state (he's wants to tax all Californians for a set of years if they leave California). The number of businesses that closed, not just from the stupid minimum wage hike but also from the amount of crime in and around the businesses.
The fact that you mentioned Witmer makes me cringe.. a neoliberal socialist.
Andy Beshear is the only Dem (to my knowledge) that appears to be moderate. But I have very limited knowledge of his views/goals/accomplishments. He doesn't come off as a neoliberal or crazy leftisms... yet. He has a bias for Israel which more than likely means he's corrupted by AIPAC.
Don't get me wrong, the Republicans are also chitty. Thomas Massie and Rand Paul are two representatives with integrity. The others in the spotlight are chit tier.
We were already fucked.
How to throw an unlosable election
It was never unlosable. People have forgotten how bad Trump was and blame everything on Biden. It's been an uphill battle.
Although I still think he should have stepped aside for someone with less baggage.
Always 50/50 because two party system, FPTP and electoral college.
2016 Part 2: Election Boogaloo
As bad as Biden was, CNN were worse. Fuck that shitty network for allowing Trump to lie pretty much nonstop for 90 minutes unchallenged.
they gave both people plenty of time, biden is supposed to be capable of challenging on his own
Actually, the other way around. We keep on compartmentalizing, Trump can lie all he wants and nothing happens, but Joe stutters and it's a national disgrace... How can you compare one without including the only alternative?
Republicans accept a post-truth society where everything is someone's propaganda, that the federal government is out to get them and that the union would be better served as a union of state-level republics. Democrats still believe in the existence of a ground truth and want a union with centralized control (i.e., they are Federalists). Like the Federalists, the Democrats are backed by wealthy financial states (New York, California) as opposed to more rural/working-class states (Alabama, Ohio) and support heavy industrial subsidies (Biden's IRA, CHIPS) as well as weak state governments.
This is a fundamental difference that explains a lot, actually. The role of government has always been to convince populations to pursue the policy goals of the elite. The foundations of representative democracy involve choosing which elites' policy goals to follow. The Republicans want to follow state elites (to borrow a Chinese proverb, the mountains are high and the President is far away). The Democrats want to follow federal elites.
Here's the real problem. The US gets to choose between a career politician and a career businessman (swindler, by definition). Who represents the working class? Who represents the people who actually built America's economy?
Nobody represents the people, but that's not a new problem nor, in anyway, a new thing in this Trump era
My biggest fear is that the USA always gets to chose someone who does not represent them at all but at least had the notion that we need a planet to live in
Trump is a man child and will see the world burn out of petty spite. And us, in the rest of the world, would have to still live with those consequences
So back to the debate and the choice between Biden and Trump... Sure Biden is a terrible option, like chosing to get cancer... But Trump is like chosing to be gang raped, shot and left for dead in an open sewer and here we are pretending the 2 bad options are somehow the same
The fact that the democrats have selected such a terrible candidate that Trump has a running chance for the third time in a row and that the US as a whole has selected two awful candidates for possibly the most important job in the world, that is a disgrace, and it is shameful.
Trump would have a running chance regardless of who the democrats pick would be, the electoral college and republican party have made sure of that.
Why is Trump the only alternative? There have to be 1000 better democrats than Biden.
When Jon Stewart referred to Biden's expression as resting 25th amendment face. 💀
alarm bells?
wait they didn't know he was old before this debate?
Apparently millions of people during the 2020 primaries didn't math long enough to realize Biden would be 86 years old after two terms.
We told you back in November but no one listened.
I distinctly remember that before I left Reddit, I had some lovely discourse with someone who was absolutely inconsolable over my opinion that Biden was too old for the job. Got called ageist and everything else they could think of.
Trust me, I hate being right.
I had a grandmother who died at 88 but was still sharp until that day she passed. It's clear Biden needs to retire, he's cognitively unable to act as a president, the media and Democratic establishment need to stop gas lightning us.
Here's the original link in lemmyml if you want to see lemmyworld loser ledditors coping: https://lemmy.ml/post/17384440
I'm European so obviously anti trump (I've learnt a lot about politicians that used similar rhetoric, had a different personal cult around them, also tried overthrowing the state - history repeats when not learning from it) but damn, Biden was bad. I'd still vote for Biden simply to avoid trump, but I fear he has no chance to get >50% after that performance.
The democrats hopefully see the writing on the wall and replace him before it's too late.
It's over. It was honestly over long ago, it's just playing out in slow motion.
It will probably continue to play out for another thirty years at least. Increasingly horrible, so at any point "eight years ago" feels like back when things were sane, except we lost our minds decades ago already.
Sorry we're the nation equivalent of DJ Khaled; we think we're "suffering from success" but in truth we actually are and we don't know it.
Problem for dems is that it's way too late to replace him now. They had to accept reality last year and run a real primary. Instead they waited until the last moment, and now there's not enough time for somebody new without an existing voter base to start campaigning.
There's no way Biden can win. According to polls, he's losing all the swing states, and that was before this debate took place. The DNC is going to give us Trump because they are elitist and don't actually care about democracy.
Thankfully, he doesn't actually need to win the majority vote (look up the electoral college if you're curious/horrified), unfortunately that fact mostly benefits Trump.
It may already be too late to replace him. It would definitely be risky. And it's not gonna happen unless Biden himself says so. If he runs against whoever the DNC were to pick to run against him or would guarantee a Trump win.
I'm more worried that he won't win the election rather than he will win it. I don't think the debate changes anything about that, people are likely still going to vote who they were going to vote for. He is the not Trump vote, and it's just as important as ever if not more important to vote not Trump.
He was weak but they couldn't adjust his mic levels? That was weird.
What if that was the max?
Then turn it up to 11
Biden shared a stage tonight with the only man he can reasonably defeat in this election. I think I should announce my candidacy, I could run on a "my dick can get hard without pharmaceuticals" platform.
Braggart!
Prove it.
And he's still the better choice
Please replace him with Hillary or Bernie or something it would be so funny. They could even have Hillary and Bernie debate for the candidacy 😂
It's her turn
Good god no. Bernie then any other Dem. Hillary is too much a follower. We need someone with "radical" (sensable) ideas.
🤣
Shit, I'd vote for her again.
It wasn't a great debate, but I've had a brainfart when talking too before.
Also, the policy is what matters. What matters is also that Biden obviously was doing the right thing. Just because he doesn't scream at people doesn't mean he's not a good choice still.
Whereas Trump was clearly obviously lying constantly
The real travesty was CNN here. There was no fact checking or the slightest attempt to keep them on topic.
I'd vote for a wet park bench over Trump. Biden was and still is the "Not Trump" candidate.
Trump wouldn't have agreed if the mods were going to been anything but prompt readers
Yeah, FWIW, Biden actually talked about expanding stuff like drug price caps to save the government shitloads of money while also saving Americans money as well. Stuff like taxing people making over 400k a year only, lead pipe abatement, funding the ACA more, giving Ukraine the aid it needs to slap the dogshit out of russia, etc etc.
If I had no idea about either president, at leask I know what Biden's future promises are and what he told us he got done in the past four years, even if he did have some sections where he kind of mucked up like this kid did.
Trump, while sounding more coherent vocally, was entirely all over the place with Afghanistan and immigrants bad (no plan?), and somehow he's going to win the war in Ukraine and bring the WSJ reporter home, for free, before he's even elected in just under five months. Oh, and apparently, he hopes he won't die before then, though he didn't sound so sure about that last night.
If I was an uninformed voter, I'd be like "Damn, biden is old, but at least he has a plan and a good team judging off his pretty amazing track record" capping insulin at $35 a mo instead of $400 is fucking awesome, not to mention the other drugs too. The massive investment in the US economy was also nice. Battery plants in Georgia, chip fabs across the country, fixing infrastructure cia the bipartisan infrastructure plan...all great stuff.
Yeah. Biden said after "it's hard to win a debate against a liar".
If you've ever argued with someone on Facebook, it's the same. Because it doesn't matter what you say, they'll simply claim you are lying and it's easy to make up bullshit. Coming up with facts, supporting them and recalling your policies is a lot harder.
Whereas, Trump doesn't need to worry about his policies. He just makes them up and throws in racism.
Trump wanted everyone to know he is a racism piece of shit. If anything, that was his only policy . I've never seen someone be so racist
What's weird is that you hear Biden on different mics soon after, he sounded fine, so I think the mics may have needed adjusting too. But maybe the rules dictated both levels were the same or something
The Democrats knew this was going to happen. There's no way they couldn't. And I don't mean Democrat supporters, many of whom were vehement that Biden was fine like so many anecdotes in this thread recount. I mean the Democrat leadership, who manage his campaign and more than likely manage his presidency. Unlike the public, they have access to him. They have his medical records, the reports of his doctors and caregivers, everything. There's no way they didn't know this would happen if he debated.
They might start seeding support for a different candidate into their supporter's discourse after this, but they will have been planning for this outcome long ago. And when a left-leaning (left from a US Overton window) news platform hosts a debate that shows him up that badly and then publishes commentary like this, you have to wonder if that caused friction with the DNC or if they assented to it.
As the party starts singling out a replacement, the question I hope people start asking is why they didn't replace Biden earlier? Did they need to wait until the urgency of imminent elections made their new candidate more palatable? And if they don't replace Biden, why are they letting Trump win?
So what are the chances he steps down and Camila Harris becomes prez?
She would lose worse than Hillary.
Hey man, under Biden we defeated Medicare. Mission Accomplished.
This whole thing gonna take the U outta the USA
It was good knowing ya, murrica
What exactly is CNN trying to accomplish with this hit piece?
You know, as much as one has to keep Machiavellian machinations and Realpolitik in mind.... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Biden did not do well. They report about it in a way that gives them clicks. There is no plan.
Calling a spade a spade is a hit piece now? Truly the least propagandized people on the planet.
In 2009, CNN's current CEO and chairman was called the 65th most powerful person in the world by Forbes.
I wonder if he'd have any financial incentive one way or the other?
Check out who runs CNN now and all will become apparent.
Ratings and clicks--same thing they wanted with the debate.
You think CNN cares who wins?
They do actually. CNN was bought by open Trump supporters back in 2022. It's been stated a few times they want CNN to become another Fox News.
CYA, probably.
The conspiracy theorists all say Joe is supposed to step down and Gavin Newsom somehow is added to the ticket which then will win. These conspiracy theorists also say that candidates are selected in advance by the powers that be and it’s all pagentry to deceive the gullible masses. If this is true, the "outcry" of concern may be a part of the plan.
Californian here: I'd rather have Biden than Newsom. The man is a snake. He's a snake man. Human snake. 🐍
I am not saying I like him. It's just what the conspiracy theorists all say, that it's a done deal and he's already selected. If it were up to me, I'd vote for ChatGPT.