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Not voting is a sure fire way to have your voice ignored.
"You want change but you're not going to vote towards making it happen because it doesn't happen already? Why the fuck do you think things aren't changing for the better‽"
Voting is so fuckin important, especially in local elections. Local politics bleeds into county politics, which bleeds into state politics which bleeds into country politics.
It all starts locally.
You want bike lanes in your city? Vote.
You want better funding in your schools? Vote.
You want more affordable housing in your area? Vote.
Vote in every election. No exceptions.
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Hi there, as a Seattle local I have a legitimate question for you. The local democrats I voted for turned around and gerrymandered the socialist 3 term serving city council member out of office. The only member that was actually pushing for the working class politics I wanted from my district representative. What kind of incremental change can I expect to really see when that is how the party at large operates?
Edit: laughing at these down votes, yall are deeply unseriouse people.
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FYI I downvoted you because you whined about your downvotes. Just thought you should know.
Next time vote for someone else. Local races are where "vote blue, no matter who" means the least. They're the most likely place to see progressive change. If you saw unfortunate result because you put a check mark next to a D and expected something miraculous to happen, maybe you should start looking into the candidates instead of their party more often.
But, most of all. Don't expect everyone to think the same way you do. Often they will have different ideas of what progress is. Sometimes that means you'll see a step to the center, even if it's a step forward. Don't be disheartened just because you didn't get everything you wanted this time, and show up again. And again. And again. Because the only way progress will stall is if you stop showing up.
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Unfortunately gerrymandering is a flaw in the democratic process. At least in the US, the Voting Rights Act makes it so political parties cannot redraw districts to decrease the political influence of racial or ethnic groups. It says nothing about other political parties, so whichever party is in power when voting lines need to be redrawn will inevitably try to redraw the lines in their favor. Until that sort of gerrymandering is outlawed, it will continue to happen. The party in power isn't going to make it fair for their competition out of the kindness of their heart.
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What you can do - vote in the primaries, participate and support the socialist you supported (or similar folks) in new elections, etc.
Local elections, imo, matter a lot. And gerrymandering is a huge problem, recently enshrined by the supreme court as being A-OK! So you could use as a constituent, but... I doubt it will get anywhere.
So the best option is the next election.
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What kind of incremental change can I expect to really see when that is how the party at large operates?
It's literally not how the party at large operates. As you said, it was your local city council. Why do you think the entire party is like this?
And the answer is, vote them out. If it's bad enough, impeach them. There's no way in our current configuration of democracy to prevent candidates from turning around and going back on their promises other than refusing to vote for them ever again.
You already know the answer, and it's not "throw your hands up and abandon the whole system of democracy".
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To a lot of progressives, Democrats are backsliding away from progressivism, not moving slowly towards it. If they need progressives to win, they sure arent acting like it.
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Get involved in politics and participate like hell
Influence your local elections to the best of your abilities and encourage others to do the same
The more stuff that can be done by getting people to act in a progressive way the more they'll be steered in that direction
And hell you could even try running in your local elections too, you'd be surprised how simple it can be in a lot of places
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The election will pan out how it'll pan out. I'm voting for Biden so I can give my friends the best chance we can get them.
I am not just voting, though, and you shouldn't stop at voting either.
Start working towards unionizing your workplace if you can. Join the IWW for training and networking (literally any worker can join).
Join and support any kind of solidarity network in your town you can (tenant unions, volunteer security details, food distributors, etc.) Hell, start one with your friends if there isn't one.
Participate in protests and public shows of solidarity. Don't back down.
Help the homeless. They've completely lost their voices and are constantly under attack by NIMBYs and cops, and it's likely that many people you know right now will be in their position in the future, especially if Trump's Elected.
Right now, 'the revolution' would never come. US citizens are atomized and divided, by highways, suburban sprawl, parking lots, hostile architecture, and the constant crushing weight of capitalist responsibilities. We've got to rebuilt the networks of solidarity we had during the union wars. That's the best way forward to a better US. Unionize, uplift your fellow workers, and keep pushing against the oppressors.
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Start working towards unionizing your workplace if you can. Join the IWW for training and networking (literally any worker can join).
Join and support any kind of solidarity network in your town you can (tenant unions, volunteer security details, food distributors, etc.) Hell, start one with your friends if there isn’t one.
Participate in protests and public shows of solidarity. Don’t back down.
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I really shouldn't even have to go over this- we LIVED it already.
No, that's not true. In fact, that's incredible, delusional cope. What we lived already was nothing compared to what a term-limited Trump with nothing to lose backed by a fully-formed Project 2025 administration would be like.
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Fair, but to their point, we know how it’ll play out - the press will fall in line, the sycophants will queue up, everyone will pretend this is fine, and absolute chaos will be the order of the day. That we’ve already lived before.
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I don't give a shit about the press or the sycophants! The issue is what the fascists will actually do, not how they will be perceived. And what they're going to do is shit like this (from another Lemmy post today -- I didn't even have to look far to find it):
We're talking about purges, pogroms, gulags, maybe even mass-murder of leftists and minorities. That's not an "everyone will pretend this is fine" issue; that's an "everyone will be literally imprisoned or dead issue!"
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Rationale people:
If Biden compromised with progressives it would guarantee a victory over trump...
"Moderates":
Fuck you fascist, you're worse than trump!
Yet when Biden gives Republicans everything they want like with the border, suddenly it's justified because some Republican voter somewhere has a 1% chance of voting D for the first time in their life.
Just weird how it works definitely
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There is actually a border problem, and actual fixes for it are Congress’s job. They are the legislative branch. And Biden worked with them to come up with legislation to fix it, and they came up with bipartisan legislation that was basically a lock to pass, but then Trump suddenly told the Republicans to tank it in order to hurt Biden (I guess you missed that). So he is doing one of the few things that the executive branch can do to address the border without legislation, to do something to address the real problem. And lo and behold, the GOP plan of tanking it has worked: you think Biden is giving Republicans everything they want.
Just think what else you’re blaming Biden for or mischaracterizing out of ignorance.
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That legislation was everything we criticized Trump's immigration "policy" for. Don't mention it like it was a big glorious feat of statesmanship only for it to shot down by republicans.
And, yes, Republicans saying no to the things they always wanted because papa said so and accidentally voting for the right thing is very funny.
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Does anyone have any statistics on how many people are likely to vote for Joe because he keeps moving to the right? Like, how many people are ACTUALLY on the fence between Biden and Trump? Compare that to how many people won't vote or will vote 3rd party BECAUSE Biden keeps moving right.
Seriously, if they'd just come out and say "look, we've run the numbers, moving right gets us 10mil center right votes while losing us 1mil progressive votes, but moving left would only get us 5mil progressive votes while losing us 4mil center right votes" I'd get it and support the math. Gotta do it in good faith though... Assume progressives are not supporting Genocide Joe unless he moves left, not that they can be bullied into changing their minds.
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Ok, it might be possible to get you that data, I bet a lot of it is proprietary but I'm sure something is floating out there.
But before that, let's take a pause.
You really think they haven't done this? I mean what's the alternative? The Dems pursue the center/right just for the lulz? The Illuminati is secretly controlling both parties? How insane is that?
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Great, so the left wing isn't that important for a Biden victory. If he loses it's just on him then. This whole post is superfluous
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Illuminati? No... Corporate donors? Yes... Insane to think they don't
I think the Dems might be working off old numbers. I think there were far fewer progressives in the 90's, and the party hasn't caught up with the fact that the majority of the younger generations are far left of them now. Maybe not on social issues, I think the Dems have made a lot of progress there, but fiscally they're still protecting the interests of the rich at the expense of everyone else.
If they've done the research, then let's see it.
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"keeps moving right"
Are you mixing things up? Israel support isn't a right wing thing and the Democrats would lose a lot more pro Israel voters than pro Palestine voters because the alternative supports Israel as well.
Otherwise Biden is much more progressive than people thought he would be.
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That seems to be the theory... Any sources for it though? Why are they allowed to be single issue voters, but not progressives? Why isn't Joe out there saying stop the genocide or we'll stop all support of Israel, and then sending in the meme team to harass the shit out of pro genocide centrists? Something like "it's the most important election ever, how could you possibly be thinking of voting for Trump, don't you know he LITERALLY supports Nazis? So you think Nazis don't still hate Jews? Don't you know that not voting or voting 3rd party is basically voting for Nazis??"
Seriously, what are the stats? I just don't believe there are that many people who would be like "well I was going to vote for Joe, but then he came out as anti genocide, so I guess I'll just hold my nose and vote for Trump... Sure he's a Nazi supporter, but at least he'll keep the genocide going"
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Brazil might have a lot of problems, but one thing I think our law gets right is treating voting not as a right, but as a duty, you don't get to choose not to vote.
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You realize people can just vote white or black, yes.
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this
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It's crazy to me that voting is the only political involvement for so many people.
We're in the middle of a cycle, this is the time to be really loud about what you'd like to see reflected in your party's policy, but instead everyone has skipped to the end, having relieved themselves of all the hard work of political engagement.
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To all the Biden defenders: I get it. You're scared of another Trump term. I'm living in Europe and I'm not a fan of project 2025 myself. I have this seemingly simple question: what happens after the election?
If Biden wins, what do you expect to happen with all the MAGAs? How would you prevent another Jan 6th? What if it succeeded this time? How will you keep Biden accountable? Will you keep avoiding a fascist dictatorship every 4 years until the end of time?
And if Trump wins? Will you give up without a fight? Will you let them turn the US into a fascist theocracy?
Don't expect that your liberal democracy will sort itself out. There's too much on the line to hope for the correct election results and everythingsorting itself out afterwards. Have a plan that doesn't rely on elections and take the safety of your community into your own hands.
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If Biden wins, what do you expect to happen with all the MAGAs?
They will continue to exist, though weakened, and four more years of Democratic executive actions and appointments will steadily move the federal government further away from their position.
How would you prevent another Jan 6th? What if it succeeded this time?
Electing Democrats to critical state roles in 2022 helped a lot here. It's also useful having the election denier as the challenger, not the incumbent, plus we're all wise to their playbook. The multiple prosecutions of last cycles conspirators should also put a damper on things.
How will you keep Biden accountable?
Protests, op-eds, pressuring legislators, primary elections, etc.
Will you keep avoiding a fascist dictatorship every 4 years until the end of time?
Yes. Democracy requires active maintenance, from all of us, indefinitely. Giving up is how its enemies win.
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If Biden wins, what do you expect to happen with all the MAGAs? How would you prevent another Jan 6th? What if it succeeded this time? How will you keep Biden accountable? Will you keep avoiding a fascist dictatorship every 4 years until the end of time?
Trump will die soon. And as much as we worry about MAGA, they are largely the Cult of Trump. He's silenced any other possible inheritors. We need democracy to outlast Trump.
In the long term, the solutions are better public education and fairer media, but we haven't even begun to work on that because of the immediate crisis.
And if Trump wins? Will you give up without a fight? Will you let them turn the US into a fascist theocracy?
It's why I'm so glad I live in California. We tend to not stand for that bullshit. I can absolutely see a secession or even a civil war if they try to use federal troops to enforce Trumpian fascism.
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Well, some of us actually realize there's this whole legislative branch that exists, and often has a lot more power than the executive to accomplish things. Shockingly enough, when you don't have a monolithic view of things, you have an actual chance of changing them.
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Your glib answer doesn't really answer anything.
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It's still June, it's still months till the election. People still are entitled to voice their opinion about Bidens policies and demand he takes more steps to the left leveraging the only power they have, their vote. If people can't demand better policies now, when there is so much time left for Bidens team to course change, when are they allowed? It's crazy to see these types of posts since the democratic primaries.
As many people in this thread have already pointed out, Joe Biden can enact right wing policy after right wing policy, damaging the support of his core voter base for the slight chance that some Trump fanatic votes for him. But you can't expect him to try to convince left wing people by enacting progressive stuff, even though none of the candidates currently campaign for them?
It's insane that in the US, people on the left at the same time have the power to lose Biden the election by not voting for him and have not enough power to get any attention from him. I believe if Trump wins again, it is entirely on Biden and the DNC that they chose this candidate and this course, not having learned anything in 2016.
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This next national election is simple: do you want 4 more years of Trump or not?
No: Vote for Joe Biden.
Yes: Vote for Trump, vote third party, or abstain.
The republicans are a minority now and are trying everything to win the electoral college despite their minority status. They will LOVE you to not vote because of Biden’s stance on __________.
So make your choice.
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So why won't Biden move to the left again?
It's like that's never mentioned as an option these days, but isn't it easier to convince one person to compromise than tens of millions of people?
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Because he is right wing and the current system is working in his favor.
The worst thing that could happen to the democrats is a competent opponent. They need trump in order to win so post election you’re so burned up from worrying about hard fascism you become more docile towards the shit were left with.
This is, i believe, why some rich fuckers donate to both sides. They cant purchase a president but they can purchase a party nominee and by making one of two choices completely unacceptable we are forced to take the alternative.
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"Just keep voting Whig" moment.
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Or, get super fucked. I mean. Those are literally the choices.
“If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice”
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Officially pro-slavery and officially no stance on slavery were literally the choices.
Until they weren't.
The Whigs made up and influenced much of the newly formed Republican Party but the absolute inability of the Whigs to take a stance on the slavery question caused them to collapse and a new party with an actual stance on slavery take its place.
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Revolution will either come, killing most of us, or the train of rampant capitalistic destruction will continue on, killing all of us. We're not close enough to immediate death for most of us to view revolution as an acceptable answer yet, but I have no doubt that in a few decades, when the young adults of that time look back on the current times and think "they had it so easy," the risk associated with an uprising will seem much less daunting when compared to the risk of simply living within whatever jumbled-together scraps of a system we'll have left by then.
Revolution isn't a solution that any sane person gets excited for; it all but guarantees a short life full of suffering for the vast majority of people, but it's a solution that is chosen when the alternative is guaranteed suffering for everyone outside of the upper class. It's the last resort used when the best hope you have for the future is to fight for the chance that a few people make it to peaceful times, because you don't see any other way for anyone to get there by working within the system.
Voting is important, yes; we get the best chance to make it to a revolution by voting blue, slowing down capitalism's destruction of the world, but so long as each election is populated by 2 candidates proudly bought out by corporations who don't give a shit about the world, there will be no viable option within the system to actually stop its destruction. That requires actually changing the system through uprising.
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Revolution will either come, killing most of us
Historically, its not the revolution that kills you but the reaction.
From America to France to Russia to China to Spain to Vietnam to Cuba, the early years involved a lot of marching and politicking and petitioning and negotiating.
But then some of the revolutionaries win one too many concessions or elections than a current government can stand. That's when the guns come out and things fall apart.
Your Francos and Pinochets and Chiang Kai-Sheks start pouring out of the woodwork. Your Austrians start invading with support from the British. Or your French reinvade after you just finished pushing out the Japanese.
That's when the killing starts in earnest.
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That requires actually changing the system through uprising.
Ah, you crazy kids and your violent revolutions. It’s always fun and games until they start culling the infirm.
But your myopic cynicism is well earned, fair play to you.
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An interesting fact about not voting: you not voting for Biden because "his stance on Isreal is bad" is indistinguishable from your grandma not voting because "Trump will win her county". Is that the message you want to send?
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I'm never really used Tumblr but is it mainly for talking to people that will never read or care what you say?
Am I doing ir right?
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He'd probably convict biden and fine him 1.5 billion dollars. Maybe.
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Always vote against the great filter.
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Vote for Biden, then have your revolution. Then please stop with your weird imperialism, close pinegap and please tell us what actually happened to Gough.
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Pine Gap closing would be tantamount to a declaration of war on the USA. Never going to happen.
That’s US territory for all intents and purposes.
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Yes that's why they need to close it. Australia is a protectorate, we're not really allowed property autonomy and I'm sick of it.
I'm thoroughly convinced that the CIA had a hand in Gough. We elected a socialist, then unprecedented constitutional crisis, his successor in the party was CIA groomed and frequently visited the USA.
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Y'all act like that doofus wasn't a president before. Did he fuck up a lot of shit? Yes. Is that the reason why he was voted out of the office? Also yes.
Looks like he needs to fuck up even more shit to get people to get out and vote in their own interest.
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Respectfully if Trump fucked up more shit then getting out and voting might not be on the table anymore
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Even then, you wouldn't be the first or last country to fall victim to populist messages from an extremist dictator-wannabe. Shit happens. Have you considered this might be a good thing, that it'll ensure stability in the region, that Trump as a president opens up negotiation strategies with previously near-hostile nations like Russia/NK/China, or whatever other party lines the US usually has for installing puppet regimes in other countries?
Trump being president is, from any point of view, nothing special. It's just a big deal because now it's happening to you, as opposed to your country or another superpower forcing it on a third world country. It too shall pass. The rest of the world will just be friendly with China instead for a while, until the next would-be empire with a chip on their shoulder comes along.
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