the fear of missing out a better compression
the fear of missing out a better compression
Comments
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Zip makes different tradeoffs. Its compression is basically the same as gz, but you wouldn't know it from the file sizes.
Tar archives everything together, then compresses. The advantage is that there are more patterns available across all the files, so it can be compressed a lot more.
Zip compresses individual files, then archives. The individual files aren't going to be compressed as much because they aren't handling patterns between files. The advantages are that an error early in the file won't propagate to all the other files after it, and you can read a file in the middle without decompressing everything before it.
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Yeah that's a rather important point that's conveniently left out too often. I routinely extract individual files out of large archives. Pretty easy and quick with zip, painfully slow and inefficient with (most) tarballs.
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Can you evaluate the directory tree of a tar without decompressing? Not sure if gzip/bzip2 preserve that.
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Obligatory shilling for unar, I love that little fucker so much
- Single command to handle uncompressing nearly all formats.
- No obscure flags to remember, just
unar <yourfile> - Makes sure output is always contained in a directory
- Correctly handles weird japanese zip files with SHIFT-JIS filename encoding, even when standard
unzipdoesn't
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What weird Japanese zip files are you handling?
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Voicebanks for Utau (free (as in beer, iirc) clone of Vocaloid) are primarily distributed as SHIFT-JIS encoded zips. For example, try downloading Yufu Sekka's voicebank: http://sekkayufu.web.fc2.com/ . If I try to
unzipthe "full set" zip, it produces a folder called РсЙ╠ГЖГtТPУ╞Й╣ГtГЛГZГbГgБi111025Бj. But unar detects the encoding and properly extracts it as 雪歌ユフ単独音フルセット（111025). I'm sure there's some flag you can pass tounzipto specify the encoding, but I like havingunarhandle it for me automatically.
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The same thing with zip, just use "unzip
<file>
" right? -
I'm an
atools kinda person-
Looks cool, I'll check it out
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Where .7z at
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.7z gang, represent
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When I was on windows I just used 7zip for everything. Multi core decompress is so much better than Microsoft's slow single core nonsense from the 90s.
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Small
dickpackage kings/queens rise up.
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Yeah, 7z is the clear winner.
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It's much slower to decompress than DEFLATE ZIP though
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cool people use zst
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You can't decrease something by more than 100% without going negative. I'm assuming this doesn't actually decompress files before you tell it to.
Does this actually decompress in 1/13th the time?
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Yeah, Facebook!
Sucks but yes that tool is damn awesome.
Meta also works with CentOS Stream at their Hyperscale variant.
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Makes sense. There are actual programmers working at facebook. Programmers want good tools and functionality. They also just want to make good/cool/fun products. I mean, check out this interview with a programmer from pornhub. The poor dude still has to use jquery, but is passionate to make the best product they can, like everone in programming.
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Right, I usually do that or lz4.
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.tar.xz
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When I'm feeling cool and downloading a
*.tar*file, I'llwgetto stdout, and tar from stdin. Archive gets extracted on the fly.I have (successfully!) written an
.isoto CD this way, too (pipe wget to cdrecord). Fun stuff. -
.tar.gz, or.tgzif I'm in a hurry-
...or shipping to MSDOS
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Where's .7z people?
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Can someone explain why MacOS always seems to create _MACOSX folders in zips that we Linux/Windows users always delete anyway?
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Window adds desktop.ini randomly too
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Linux adds .demon_portal files all over my computer too.
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Yeah, those tend to be pre-folder settings for the File Explorer.
Like View options, thumbnails and such.It's been a while for me, but I think there was something specially for thumbnails too. You might find one if you go into the folder options and set a folder to optimized for pictures/videos and add some to it.
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Huh, never noticed that. Probably always thought that was just part of the program/files needed.
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this is a complete uneducated guess from a relatively tech-illiterate guy, but could it contain mac-specific information about weird non-essential stuff like folder backgrounds and item placement on the no-grid view?
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They're Metadata specific for Macs.
If you download a third party compression tool they'll probably have an option somewhere to exclude these from the zips but the default tool doesn't Afaik. -
"Resource forks" IIRC, old stuff. Same for the .DS_Store file.
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For just $12.99 you can disable this https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blueharvest/id739483376
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Because Apple always gotta fuck with and "innovate" perfectly working shit
Windows's built-in tool can make zips without fucking with shit AND the resulting zip works just fine across systems.
Mac though...Mac produced zips always ALWAYS give me issues when trying to unzip on a non-mac (ESPECIALLY Linux)
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MacOS has two files per file, so the extras need to be stored somewhere.
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HFS+ has a different features set than NTFS or ext4, Apple elect to store metadata that way.
I would imagine modern FS like ZFS or btrfs could benefit from doing something similar but nobody has chosen to implement something like that in that way.
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.fitgirlrepack
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I'm the weird one in the room. I've been using 7z for the last 10-15 years and now
.tar.zst, after finding out that ZStandard achieves higher compression than 7-Zip, even with 7-Zip in "best" mode, LZMA version 1, huge dictionary sizes and whatnot.zstd --ultra -M99000 -22 files.tar -o files.tar.zst-
You can actually use Zstandard as your codec for 7z to get the benefits of better compression and a modern archive format! Downside is it's not a default codec so when someone else tries to open it they may be confused by it not working.
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.tar.7z gang (probably not a good idea)
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.tar.xz is. Or .tar.lzip.
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.tar.7z.zip.bz2 gang unite
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7z gang joined the chat.....
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I use .tar.gz in personal backups because it's built in, and because its the command I could get custom subdirectory exclusion to work on.
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Me removing the plastic case of a 2.5' sata ssd to make it physically smaller
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That's a big drive.
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Mf’ers act like they forgot about zstandatd
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Can we please just never use proprietary rar ever. We have 7z, tar.gz, and the classic zip
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I mean xz/7z has kind of been the way for at least a decade now
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.tar.gz
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all the cool kids use .cab
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I use the command line every day, but can't be bothered with all the compression options of tar and company.
zip -r thing.zip things/andunzip thing.zipare temptingly more straightforward.Need more compression?
zip -r -9 thing.zip things/. Need a faster option? Use a smaller digit.-
"yes i would love to
tar -xvjpfmy files"-- statement dreamed up by the utterly insane
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Present, I'm the
tar cvJfinsane
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Zip is fine (I prefer 7z), until you want to preserve attributes like ownership and read/write/execute rights.
Some zip programs support saving unix attributes, other - do not. So when you download a zip file from the internet - it's always a gamble.
Tar + gzip/bz2/xz is more Linux-friendly in that regard.Also, zip compresses each file separately and then collects all of them in one archive.
Tar collects all the files first, then you compress the tarball into an archive, which is more efficient and produces smaller size. -
The problem with that is that it will not preserve flags and access rights.
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how about
.tar.zipor.tar.rar?-
Zip, RAR, 7z etc. store and compress the files. Tarballs work differently, tar stores the files and the second program compresses the tar as a continuous stream.
They originated in different mediums, programs like zip were born to deal with folder structures, tar was created to deal with linear tape archives (hence the name).
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TIL
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I prefer .tar.rar.tar.
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.tar.zip.tar.xzall the way
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Kind of redundant. Both
.zipand.rarstore an index of files within the archive and are a bit 'inside-out' when it comes what we get fromtar.gz.That is, ZIP is pretty close to what you'd get if you first gzipped all your files and then put them into a
.tar.RAR does a little more (if I remember correctly), such as generating a dictionary of common redundancies between files and then uses that knowledge to compress the files individually, but better. Something akin to a
.tarfile is still the result though.
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That's fine. I'm use to being unrepresented in the arj, lha, and uc2 crew
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If you download and extract the tarball as two separate steps instead of piping
curldirectly intotar xz(for gzip) /tar xj(for bz2) /tar xJ(for xz), are you even a Linux user?-
I download and then tar. Curl pipes are scary
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They really, really aren’t. Let’s take a look at this command together:
curl -L [some url goes here] | tar -xzSorry the formatting's a bit messy, Lemmy's not having a good day today
This command will start to extract the tar file while it is being downloaded, saving both time (since you don’t have to wait for the entire file to finish downloading before you start the extraction) and disk space (since you don’t have to store the .tar file on disk, even temporarily).
Let’s break down what these scary-looking command line flags do. They aren’t so scary once you get used to them, though. We’re not scared of the command line. What are we, Windows users?
- curl -L – tells curl to follow 3XX redirects (which it does not do by default – if the URL you paste into cURL is a URL that redirects (GitHub release links famously do), and you don’t specify -L, it’ll spit out the HTML of the redirect page, which browsers never normally show)
- tar -x – eXtract the tar file (other tar “command” flags, of which you must specify exactly one, include -c for Creating a tar file, and -t for Testing a tar file (i.e. listing all of the filenames in it and making sure their checksums are okay))
- tar -z – tells tar that its input is gzip compressed (the default is not compressed at all, which with tar is an option) – you can also use -j for bzip2 and -J for xz
- tar -f which you may be familiar with but which we don’t use here – -f tells tar which file you want it to read from (or write to, if you’re creating a file). tar -xf somefile.tar will extract from somefile.tar. If you don’t specify -f at all, as we do here, tar will default to reading the file from stdin (or writing a tar file to stdout if you told it to create). tar -xf somefile.tar (or tar -xzf somefile.tar.gz if your file is gzipped) is exactly equivalent to cat somefile.tar.gz | tar -xz (or tar -xz < somefile.tar – why use cat to do something your shell has built-in?)
- tar -v which you may be familiar with but which we don’t use here – tells tar to print each filename as it extracts the file. If you want to do this, you can, but I’d recommend telling curl to shut up so it doesn’t mess up the terminal trying to show download progress also: curl -L --silent [your URL] | tar -xvz (or -xzv, tar doesn’t care about the order)
You may have noticed also that in the first command I showed, I didn’t put a - in front of the arguments to tar. This is because the tar command is so old that it takes its arguments BSD style, and will interpret its first argument as a set of flags regardless of whether there’s a dash in front of them or not. tar -xz and tar xz are exactly equivalent. tar does not care.
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the problem is if the connection gets interrupted your progress is gone. you download to a file first and it gets interrupted, you just resume the download later
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one of the cool things about tar is that it's hard link aware
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tar cvjf compressed-shit.tar.bz2 /path/to/uncompressed/shit/
Only way to fly.
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I stopped doing that because I found it painfully slow. And it was quicker to gzip and upload than to bzip2 and upload.
Of course, my hardware wasn't quite as good back then. I also learned to stop adding 'v' flag because the bottleneck was actually stdout! (At least when extracting).
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for the last 14 years of my career, I was using stupidly overpowered Oracle exadata systems exclusively, so "slow" meant 3 seconds instead of 1.
Now that I'm retired, I pretty much never need to compress anything.
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I’m curious about the contents in your compressed shit.
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I'm from
tar.gz.gpggang to keep away nasty storage providers -
.txz, I'm too lazy to type the full name -
.tar.xz
☠️
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This guy tar balls
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Good ol -xvjpf
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.tar.zst forever
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Bzip2 compression is often surprisingly good with text files, especially log files. It seems to "see" redundancies there - and logs often have a lot of it - far better than gzip and sometimes even lzma.
Anyway, if I saw a bunch of
tar.bz2files, that's what I'd expect to find in them. -
What's wrong with .7z?
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Nothing, but I've read people who act as if tar files are some sort of alien artifact ready to rip their faces off.
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i just use either zip or tar+gzip. personally, i avoid rar as it's a proprietary format.
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so silly loll
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.zlib -
I unironically used xz for a long time. It was just eazy and all around very good compress. A close second is 7zip because I used it on windows for years.
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I still wonder what that's like. Somebody must still occasionally get a notification that SOMEWHERE somebody paid for their WinRAR license and is like "WOAH WE GOT ANOTHER ONE!"
Never looked back since 7z though. :D
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Make the stage 4 tarball
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Compatibility aside, I'd say that
.tar.pxzaka.tpxzis probably my vote.LZMA is probably what I'd want to use.
xzand7zipuse that. It's a bit slow to compress, but it has good compression ratios, and it's faster to decompress than bzip2.pixzpermits for parallel LZMA compression/decompression. On present-day processors with a lot of cores, that's desirable.It also can use .tar as its container format, which is desirable; that's everywhere.
The major drawback to .tar is that it doesn't support indexed access, so extracting a single file isn't fast, but .tar.pxz does.
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I’m in this picture and I resent it.
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What the fuck is that file extension?
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Im a pirate, I am rar like, roawr, lol
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Oblig. XKCD:
tar -hEdit: wtf... It's actually
tar -?. I'm so disappointedboom
tar eXtactZheVeckingFile
Me trying to decompress a .tar file
You don't need the v, it just means verbose and lists the extracted files.
tar -xzf
(read with German accent:) extract the files
Ixtrekt ze feils
German here and no shit - that is how I remember that since the first time someone made that comment
That’s so good I wish I needed to memorize the command
tar -uhhhmmmfuckfuckfuck
The Fish shell shows me just the past command with tar
So I don't need to remember strange flagsI use zsh and love the fish autocomplete so I use this:
https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-autosuggestions
Also have
fzfforctrl + rto fuzzy find previous commands.I believe it comes with oh-my-zsh, just has to be enabled in plugins and itjustworks™
man tar
you never said I can't run a command before it.
without looking, what’s the flag to push over ssh with compression
scp
That's yet another great joke that GNU ruined.