More like, "we've invented a cure for cancer, but only people who have cancer right now can get it. People in the future are fucked once again and won't get the cure."
Loan forgiveness without making education affordable going forward doesn't solve the problem. It's pulling up the ladder.
So we should just not let the people currently sick have the cure? 🤔
Even in your analogy, curing any cancer today, even if it doesn't extend to future sufferers, is an improvement over curing no one. Because fuck cancer, and fuck student loans.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Imagine if researchers said: We're working on a cure for cancer, and in the process we've generated a bunch of unobtanium. We can use it as a one-time cure for a bunch of current cancer patients, or we can use it to continue further research towards a permanent, universally-available cure. Obviously, if we use it all up now, we'll be back to square one and have to start generating it again before we can work on a long-term cure. Which would you pick?
"Unobtanium" is political will. If we just do a round of bailouts for current loan-holders instead of addressing the root cause of spiraling education costs, we're just kicking the can down the road. The pressure will be off, a whole generation of 20- and 30-somethings will lose interest in the issue, and it'll fall off the political radar for another few decades, by which time GenZ+ will be well and truly fucked, since educational costs are only going up and up.
The absolute worst way to address rising education costs is to encourage a bunch of students to take ridiculously large loans and then wipe them off the books. That means: 1) schools can raise prices to the roof because they know students have access to mountains of cash from loans, and 2) students won't hesitate to take the loans because they'll probably just be forgiven eventually. Probably. Maybe. Or maybe it'll be a millstone around their neck for the rest of their lives...but hey, what choice do they have, that's just what school costs (because governments make sure students have all the money they need for a bidding war to get in).
So it amounts to just transferring huge piles of taxpayer money directly to overpriced schools and predatory banks, with no plan to stem the flow. It's like trying to help your drug-addicted friend recover with a one-time gift of a brick of heroin. They'll feel great for a while, and they'll love you for it while it lasts, but it's only going to make the problem much worse in the long run.
We should still do good things even if we can't do all the good things.
What I don't get, is that what moderates keep saying...
You know, the people that constantly shit on progressives and claim we don't want anything unless it's everything.
Isn't the whole moderate mission to take what we can get now and keep working for more? I'm not saying that's what they actually do, that's just their excuse for not fighting for more.
So shouldn't the ones pushing for loan forgiveness now and fixing the underlying issue later be the moderates?
Instead they say if we can't 100% fix the problem in perpetuity, we can't do anything.
Could also be "but we might give the cure to people who have cancer in the future, but nobody knows if the government will allow it"
So the people who could get relief should abstain because the door is shut on any legislation as long as the GOP are in power?
Awfully compassionate of you.
No. That's mighty presumptive of you. Play the game as the rules are. I'm suggesting loan forgiveness is a half-measure and it never should have been offered by politicians without solving the problem of unaffordable education. Otherwise, this isn't a solution, it's just a band-aid on a gaping still-bleeding wound that needs stitches. It doesn't solve the problem, but it does create inequity.
I'm on board, as long as we forcefully agree that cancelling the loans is a good thing - it's just NOT ENOUGH
Exactly , rather than only forgiving existing loans that should make education free and also forgive existing loans , and perhaps give people who have already paid off their loan some kind of stimulus check as a kind of recognition that their struggle was just as hard as everyone else's and they deserve a break too.
Declare that future student loans are also automatically forgiven. You take a student loan tomorrow? You don't have to pay it back. This, of course, will mean that no one will want to give student loans - which will force the tuition down.
Loan forgiveness without making education affordable going forward doesn't solve the problem. It's pulling up the ladder.
You're 100% correct. But be careful, these folks don't take kindly to shining a light on their hypocrisy. They signed their names to a legally-binding contract, spent the money, but now don't like paying it back under the terms they agreed to.
College tuition is far too high. But without fixing the root cause, tuition loan forgiveness does nothing for everyone before and after, and it actually makes the whole problem worse.
Blaming the people taking the loans is kind of absurd, for many it's their only option if they want to continue their education. It's not like they're taking out loans they don't need and burning the money.
"Legally-binding contract" is meaningless too, would you make the same argument against people who signed away their lives before slavery was abolished? Just because it's legal now doesn't mean it always will be, or that it must be enforced indefinitely.
You're absolutely right that reducing tuition is the right move. Tuition is free where I am and some of the costs I see elsewhere are crazy. However, the options are not necessarily mutually exclusive; you can reduce tuition and help people that have already been shafted by the existing system.
No one (BESIDES THE GOP) is against fixing it through legislation. That is a strawman.
I spent five figures paying mine off two years ago.
Still 100% support my tax dollars paying for people's college. In fact, I'd love that instead of the nine wars my tax dollars are paying for instead.
I'd settle for interest free loans tbh...
And then do it for personal homes, too.
The problem is colleges just will keep charging more because they know people will just keep getting them knowing the gov will cover it eventually. The fix isn't to have the gov. Cover some loans, it should be to stop letting colleges be run like a private sector.
Agreed. Tanks don't teach, don't heal, don't feed and don't pay pensions.
Fucking PutinSame, but I want to be reimbursed. I don’t know how people who want their debt forgiven now don’t support me being reimbursed for mine. They seriously set my life back.
Which nine are you counting, out of interest?
I actually beat cancer. If they suddenly find a cure for cancer now I am going to be so fucking happy! This comment is about student loans...and fuck cancer.
Congratulations! I also hope they find a cure for cancer and I would be so happy if they did. I've never been diagnosed with it so I have no bearing on this conversation. Fuck cancer.
This comment is also about student loans. (Which I've had and paid and still hope they grant loan forgiveness, tyvm).
From the school of “I suffered through [x], so therefore everyone else should suffer, too, even if they don’t need to.”
There’s always going to be a cutoff point where someone has it harder or easier than those that came before. That’s just life. As long as the change wasn’t malicious, just feel good (or whatever is appropriate) for those that benefit from it.
I work in a highly contract-controlled industry, and when things improve there’s always a segment of the group that might be close to retirement or something and gets all pissed that they didn’t won’t realize the benefits of a change that will apply mostly to those that will have longer under the change. They’re the same ones that removed that new employees didn’t suffer under whatever crappy work rules that might have existed before, too.
So yeah…people that paid off their loans, or guys that I work with that paid for some/all of their kid’s college, removed about people catching a break on their loans. STFU and be happy that someone else caught a break.
Making things better for the next generation should always be the goal not the exception
I'm glad I was taught not to begrudge and feel envy of other. I learned later in life that there are some insecure tw@ts who'd like to drag others down.
This also needs to go into the cancer he beat is dramaticly easier to overcome than cancer in the future.
“What do you mean? Just get a part time job. I waited tables and paid my way through college.”
“How much was your tuition?”
“$500 a semester. Why? How much is yours?”
“$19,000 a semester”
Yes exactly. They just don’t get it.
I have to wonder if my generation [Millenial] had any effect on university enrollments yet. My kids aren’t quite the age to talk about education plans as I had kiddos later in life @30yo (40 now). I’ll be strongly discouraging uni unless it’s completely unavoidable to what they want to do.
I'm approaching 40 and have three kids from 10yo to 1yo, and I'm still going to encourage them going to college, but in a way that makes sense for them. My wife and I both work at a community college, and there's no way our kids are going to go to a 4-year right out of high school (unless they get a full scholarship for something and already know exactly what they want to do).
Too many students don't know what they want to study, don't value the education, and drive themselves into too much debt. While I highly value the education and skills gained in a bachelor's program, there's no need to be going into debt at a university to take first- and second-year courses when community colleges are effectively free (in CA, anyway)
Ship 'em off to Germany and get a free college education. I know a few people that have gone there for grad school for that reason. I wish I had known that was an option...I might still be there, honestly.
I mean the numbers still say that a bachelor's degree doubles or triples your lifetime earnings over a high school diploma. Moreover, an educated society benefits everyone. College is still the right move at every scale. What we need to do is make it a more equitable system.
Maybe. Depends on how functional you are overall. Turns out I can pass college courses, but not keep a job so well.
I’m really good at getting high paying jobs, but my executive function is terrible. I can’t keep the jobs.
People with good executive function tend to not be aware of it as a factor. For them “getting that job” is the big uncertain hurdle on their path to success.
Not once in my upbringing all the way through college graduation did anyone talk about keeping jobs. It was all about getting the job. I’ve gotten some pretty amazing jobs … and lost them.
Yeah crossing my fingers there’s some fixes in the works along side any debt forgiveness, but with this political environment and some folks attitude of “F you, I got mine “, I’m doubtful.
I guess apprenticeships aren't that common yet in the US, but in many countries you can learn a profession not only at uni. In that case the high school diploma isn't the last/highest diploma one would get.
Same, I'm going to push my kid to do everything they can local. Because even though I don't regret the experiences I had at university, it was a massive waste of money for me.
Yeah I look back fondly on the experiences, the conversations, the environment. But it was worse than a waste of time for me. It was, financially, the worst way I could have spent my first years out of high school.
Yeah I’d definitely rather have them go to one of the community colleges or maybe a more technical school depending on what they want to do. I just want to prevent them from having to live with what might be debt I deal with for the rest of my life. No big University unless they manage a full ride or something, lol. Mean from my mistakes.
Similar boat. Were lucky we were able to move to Europe so my kid has access through the Erasmus network to any college in Europe really. It's a different world over here.
I’ve joked with my wife about sending the kids to Germany as IIRC they have a really good system that is friendly to international students there. But this is me trying to remember stuff from 15-20 years ago lol
I wouldn’t be surprised if that were true. My coworker and I both got a certification last year. I received a promotion shortly after that, but he didn’t get his until much later. He was thinking it might have to do with me having a bachelor’s while he only has an associates degree. I hope that wasn’t it, but I wouldn’t be surprised. Some corpo stooge having to be convinced the technically senior co-worker with tons of tribal knowledge is fit for a step-up promo….sheesh.
This... is sad. Both discouraging and why you discourage.
Yeah…I agree. I will say I hope I can at least mitigate the debt issue as much as I can because I won’t be able to help pay, and I’m sure by the time my oldest is ready I’ll make too much for him to qualify for much aid. Maybe community college first or a trade school depending on what their interested in.
I generally encourage kids to just go live a normal life for a few years before college. That way they’re going for something specific they really want to do, and they have an experiential sense of what the dollar amounts mean.
I’m pretty resentful that I had tens of thousands of loans offered to me, far beyond anything my credit would warrant, when I was a teenager, who had been propagandized to go to college for the past ten years of my life.
I feel tricked. Perhaps not on purpose, but I feel like I was tricked.
Are you me? Though i don’t necessarily blame my parents, they just thought that they were encouraging me to do the right thing for my future. I can’t say that my degree was entirely useless but I’d like to think i could have gotten to spot similar to where i am now without the 100k in student loans.
I don't get it
Edit:
Ok thanks I get it now.
People with student loans are mad there are loan forgiveness programs.
I finally paid off my student loans!
If they suddenly forgive student loans given to people now, I'm gonna be so mad.
Nailed it. Thanks.
"I paid off all of my student loans myself, it's not fair for the government just forgive loans from other people!"
In the US it’s common for people to say that they shouldn't cancel student loan debts because it would be unfair to people who have already paid theirs back.
People who have paid off their student loans are allegedly opposed to the government forgiving student loans for people that are financially burdened by them.
A common “reason” for why student loans shouldn’t be paid off by the government is that it would be unfair to everyone who has already paid off their student loans.
People with student loans are mad
They're generally not. But a few well-situated op-ed writers working for newspapers with a vested interest in the private loan industry have expressed a great deal of outrage.
The person in this comic is acting like someone who paid off their student loans and now doesn't want others to get loan forgiveness
Thanks I already got it.
Hi I'm a fucking idiot, how can you beat cancer if there is no cure for it yet?
I thought there was a cure but I guess not a very good one since some people don't make it
Edit: Thank you for the answers, that really cleared it up for me, and I understand cancer a bit better now.
A "cure" in this situation means an essentially guaranteed method of treatment. Cancers vary greatly, with some being benign, some being very treatable, and some being extremely deadly (at least with current technology).
Indeed. Beat it, but at what cost.
My mum beat cancer. She lost parts of her body in the process and chemo changed her physically (her hair and nails never came back the same). It took three years of regular testing to finally be given the "you're officially cancer free" verdict. Three tense years.
All that said she's incredibly lucky not only to have beat it but not to have to live with additional medication due to it. I know somebody who lost a lot more and while is alive now needs a lifetime of medication to "put in" what the partial removed organs no longer produce.
Cancer, as far as I'm aware, goes into remission and isn't cured. Remission is when there isn't any detectable signs of a cancer mass or growth in your body. So imaging doesn't pick up any tumors, your blood work doesn't indicate any hormonal changes, and biopsies come back negative.
A cure would be like say there is no cancer and it won't come back. Remission is more like we have no evidence of cancer and x% of maintain that state for x years.
Fun fact: your body is constantly making cancerous cells, but you have the ability to detect and destroy them before they get out of hand. Keep that immune system strong.
Did you know that you can cure your meat and beat it?
Maybe not in that order.
Thank you for the giggle, SatansMaggotyCumFart
Right now, the main option to "beat" cancer is to poison yourself until enough of the cancerous cells die, along with killing the normal healthy cells. Even then, that only works for certain types of cancer, and that's only if it is treated early enough.
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/cancer-survival-rates
A cure would ideally work safely against all types and stages.
That's very simplistic, there's loads of cancer treatments, what you're describing is a kind of broad brush chemotherapy, but there's lots of more targeted versions, then loads of different pills and potions, immunotherapies, radiotherapies and the good old "cut the thing out" method.
Cancer treatment is the best funded area of medicine and there's loooads of advances going on all the time.
He beat it with his fists.
You can cure pregnancy with a fist but not cancer
Boof, biff, pow!
I spent five figures paying mine off two years ago.
Still 100% support my tax dollars paying for people's college. In fact, I'd love that instead of the nine wars my tax dollars are paying for instead.
Government gives money to tobacco industry: "What? They're too big to fail."
I can honestly say that I don't remember anyone claiming tobacco is too big to fail.
Banks, auto industry, certain other farming segments yes...but tobacco seems like just special interest arguments.
In this analogy tabacco is the pervayor of cancer. Likened to how banks make predatory student loans. When ever we have to bail out the banks or corporations we are told, "they are too big to fail."
As if an educated population is less important than the financial institutions that they uphold.
Where does the forgiveness come from? After paying for my education I now pay a bunch of taxes, I assume that's what is paying for their education? So the cartoon should say, I just fought and beat cancer and now I need to go work on a cute. "They" cutting cancer is not the same.
I'm all for student loan forgiveness and all that. I think education should be socialised for anyone till any level.
That being said, this meme is an example of false equivalency. Where is the money for student loan forgiveness coming from? From taxes. Taxes that these ppl (who also had to pay for student loans) have to pay. Hence, effectively, these guys paid their own loans off and are contributing to pay others' loans as well. That's their grime from what I understand.
Morally, I believe that they're wrong. I'm just pointing out the false equivalency generated here.
Beating cancer builds character!
Can someone tell me what this comic is about?
IDK. Some cringe-lord wants free stuff and wants your taxes to pay for it. Something about cancer.
Guaranteed student loans, that you had to be approved for, were a terrible idea to begin with.
This comic is based on pretty childish thinking. Repaying student loans isn't a cure. It's making everyone else pay the price (either through inflation, through rising education costs, or through direct tax later).
Second, cancer isn't a choice--student loans are.
More accurately would be: I'm going to be so upset if I have to suffer even a little again to help everyone else make up for their bad decisions.
Imagine being this brainwashed. You know where higher education is free? Pretty much the entire civilized world. Guess whether 'murican taxes compare favorably or unfavorably against that?
US student finance is for sure broken. I really hate comparing biological ills to social, though. Nobody graduates high school and says "I'm going to go sign up for cancer". Nobody says "well, if I knew cancer was going to be cured, I would have got it instead of being a plumber!" This metaphor is breaking down rapidly.
Nobody graduates high school and says "I'm going to go sign up for cancer".
Maybe not in a literal sense, but there are plenty of people who apply for jobs which pose inherent danger to health, including increased risks of cancers, because they need the money.
No one signs up for college to take on all that student debt just because they enjoy it, it's seen as an investment in better job prospects to have a degree despite the financial risk of debt. This is at least somewhat similar to how more dangerous jobs pay more, because you take on a risk. You've got physical danger and financial danger to consider based on your choice. Sometimes both.
Well this is a poor taste take on a common sense issue .
You might be taking it too literally. It's a joke because the take is bad, on purpose. The entire point is people unironically have this position on student loans when it's obviously fucking stupid to have that opinion on anything.
I was pissed about the debt relief until my boss reminded me that school wouldn't have helped me much even had I gone the four-year route or more.
Still pissed I had to settle for a shitty degree at a shitty college, live with an abusive family member and work full-time while I attended in order to get a piece of fucking paper without worrying about debt, only for some politician do decide a couple years later than now is a good time to slap a band-aid on the failing system. But oh well, I've come to expect no less from the government that has told me on separate occasions "yes you are entitled to the program's assistance, but we're not dispensing it because of a technicality nobody told you exists till now". All I have to say to my government is: since you gave me nothing, I owe you nothing-- my skillset is entirely self-built and I have sole discretion over where and how I apply it.
None of the debt relief that happened is any extra relief that shouldn't have happened anyway because of the shit system. People should have had those debts relieved a while ago, but because of awful company administration (like people making payments, but the company's system taking 1 cent less than the minimum, so none of the payments over 10 years counted), those people didn't have the debt relieved, when they should have, based on already existing laws.
Btw, you're the person the comic is referencing.
Btw, you're the person the comic is referencing.
I thought it was blatantly obvious that I am aware of that, and cool with it no less.
I'm not saying nobody should have their debt relieved. I'm saying I am more than comfortable holding my resentment towards the government for failing me and my fellow constituent. And that even if some other constituent is happy with this move, I see it as too little too late. I avoided higher education explicitly because I refused to submit to their bullshit system and shoulder inescapable debt without any guarantee of recuperability. In doing so, I passed up on coubtless opportunities. I am allowed to be angry that my wise decision now looks pointless in hindsight.
I did not put myself at the disadvantage-- my government did that for me. And I am mad about it. I will continue to be mad about it. I won't do anything about it. But there may come a day when the government compels me to do something. And I will have valid reason to tell them to kick rocks, if that is what I do choose to do. I owe them nothing.
edit: also, if anyone dislikes my attitude or approach-- that's too bad, because I'm long past the point of caring. When I was given a raw hand all the way from adolescence, I took it and used my spite about it as motivation to obsolete any disadvantage I had to come out on top and as close to unmovable as one could get. The spite kept me from killing myself and went on to mold me into a dangerous son of a removed Silicone Valley would fight over and AI CEOs gripe that they can't replace. I have unspeakably cozy job security and don't ever have to worry about my future. And I have only my spite and tenacity to thank.
This analogy doesn't really work though. Most people don't willingly receive cancer. I think the thought process is you chose to borrow that money now it's your responsibility to pay it back. If you worked an entire year to pay off your student loan debt and another person doesn't work and their loans are paid off, you worked an entire year for free. Essentially slave labor. Anyone would be grateful when someone beats cancer but watching everyone around you get free handouts while you did what you are supposed to, I can see why people aren't a fan of the idea. I paid off my student loans during COVID and I never expected any money back but I'd be lying if I said getting that money back now would not be extremely helpful in my life. I'm grateful that people are getting their loans forgiven. College shouldn't cost remotely what it does.
Most people don’t willingly receive cancer.
When I was a kid, my parents were able to set aside money for my benefit in advance so that when I started college I had enough for tuition, housing, and a car. When I graduated, I even had enough left over for a down payment on a starter home.
I didn't get to choose this. It was decided for me the day I was born. It was given to me purely by dint of who my parents happened to be and where I lived. In other countries, everyone has access to this level of
public health carecough excuse me cough higher education. But I had to rely on a private system that rewarded people with the means to accumulate financial surplus.Also, my mom smoked when she was younger. But when she started trying to get pregnant, she quit. If she'd continued smoking through the pregnancy, it would have significantly increased my chance to develop some form of childhood cancer. Again, this was not something I got to choose. It was purely a consequence of my parents' decisions.
For me, during college, I got my first credit card. Between student loans and credit cards, I've been set up to fail at every turn. I have a crap ton of debt. My student loans? Paid in full. But the fact that I was paying them for nearly 15 years, and the money that took from me while I did it caused me to get deeper in debt from other sources of debt that has led me to be in a position where I'm still just as much in debt as I was when I graduated. The debt has shifted from student loans to mostly credit cards, but it hasn't gotten any smaller. I'm pretty sure I owe more now than I did when I graduated.
Financial debt compounds. Not only on itself, but it creates deficiencies in other areas requiring more debt to maintain balance. It grows like a cancer.
Sure, you can declare bankruptcy, and fuck yourself over for your ability to get any loans, but will that actually help? Does your income conver your expenses? Are you making a living wage? If not, and you go bankrupt, you might be screwing yourself over. It might be better to simply continue the cycle of violence until you earn enough to cover what you need to, then, when you're cash positive, declare it at that point.
I've been on the debt treadmill for over 20 years now. I continue to find myself in situations that require large sums to get resolved. Whether that's a broken vehicle, or another critical item I have to immediately pay for which was unexpected, or simple daily needs that have to be purchased when I'm at a low point in the availability of money. It grows.
I keep trying. I haven't needed to declare bankruptcy yet; but my debts are attached to me like a cancer, slowly killing me by starving my finances.
I'm not even poor. I work a decently well paying job. I'm just so heavily in debt, that I can't get out of it.
I hear what you're saying but you have to put a little more thought into this beyond "you pay for what you get". A lot of professions still need specialization but do not offer commensurate remuneration with respect to cost of entry. I'll give you some examples:
- Teachers
- Historians
- Social workers
- Architects
I could go on. It's a long list. The world still needs teachers and social workers, but we are far from adequately compensating for these industries. When you adopt a utilitarian approach to education (as a pipeline that leads directly to a career track) you are limiting the potential of the nation to improve/grow. A humanist approach to education promotes a more universal type of growth where we can foster the best talent towards achieving their full potential. Otherwise we end up with a situation in which the humanities and arts are segregated exclusively for the affluent members of society because the cost of entry is high but the output is low.
Fuck y'all. I chose to not go to college and went with a lower paying career field as a trade off for lower earning potential. Using the tax dollars I've paid over the years to help eliminate the negative trade off everyone else chose to take on when they went to college is crap.
don't worry, your taxes aren't going into the education system! they're all being funneled into the military anyway
Cool story man. Let's all do the same thing. Let's hope we never need a doctor or a civil engineer
Those jobs pay in reflection of college and it's debts. Time and costs in exchange for six figure salaries.
Why didn't you go to public university?
Because it would still be $60,000 plus interest, plus the other costs associated with going to college.
If just going to public university and paying that is no big deal, then i guess no one needs their college debt wiped, since everyone had that same option.
This is a shit metaphor. In reality no one should be angry if there is a cure simply because they didn’t have to use it. Some cancer cannot just be beaten so yea, let them have the cure. Move on That’s just childish view on cancer.
Student loans however yes, but for fuck sakes do not just compare such shit to cancer.
Checking my bank balance, and seeing this ugly growth that endlessly consumes while yielding nothing but anxiety and pain. Knowing that this ball of debt is intrinsic to my existence, but that a mutation in its purpose has transformed it from benevolent symbiote to voracious parasite. Talking to specialists and professionals about how to remove it, but hearing how my options are - themselves - often life-threatening or at least misery inducing for months or years at a time, and that there's no real guarantee the growth can be removed as a result. Hearing how other people who were richer than me got a benign treatment much earlier on and are no longer suffering. Recognizing that there's a national program to provide treatment in other countries, but we can't import it because that would mean engaging with evil socialists.
Fuck. You're right. Nothing like cancer at all.
It absolutely is not. you have no clue what you are talking about. Even if you refuse to understand and just want to self center ruminate your issues, you could at least make an effort to stop being an insensitive piece of shit to the people who are not the ones at fault for the situation you are in.
