US vetoes widely supported resolution backing full UN membership for Palestine
US vetoes widely supported resolution backing full UN membership for Palestine
I am somewhat amazed how much influence Israel seems to have over the United States. Even colleges and universities behaving as though they may as well be established in some autocratic, authoritarian state. It's like a signal was sent out all over the US. The same nation that brought the world NSO has people doxxing students for supporting Palestinians. How easy it's become to dehumanize people, women and children, babies even because the religious fervor truly has the right wing zealots believing they are "the chosen people". The dehumanization of Palestinian people is quite disgusting.
Another reminder that religion and politics should never be allowed to mix anywhere.
Ita not just the US, all Western countries except Ireland are basically doing whatever Israel wants. Check any larger western newspaper and none are really critical of Israel. Look at Germany for an example of how fucked they are in Europe.
Canada, Australia, Britain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, Estonia, Japan, Austria and Romania All cut UNRWA funding based purely on Israels word with zero evidence.
When will this lie stop? People never shut the fuck up about this conflict in the west. There are endless protests and the media repeats that Isreal needs to stop every day.
And yet all day, every day, on Lemmy people cry about the west not caring or writing about it or shilling for Isreal. It's just delusional bordering on dishonest at this point.
Because the US is full of Christian zealots who believe that when the Jews manage to rebuild their temple, armageddon happens and they all get to go to Heaven.
They are actively cheering on WWIII and the deaths of billions over a 2000 year old work of fiction. And are neglecting to mention that this Jewish country they all support will be bombed into dust for their messiah to return.
Christian Zionists belong to a death cult and the fact that they have so much influence over an allegedly secular government is gross.
The part they don't say out loud is that they also believe that all the Jews in the world have to live in Israel after the temple is rebuilt. Meaning expelling Jews from the U.S. and all other countries other than Israel.
It's also full of very influential Jews. While the evangelicals are certainly one major driving force, let's not underestimate the intra-group pressure that Jews in the west apply to one another to conform.
In 2022, NSO Group was reportedly selling zero-click exploits to governments for breaking into individuals' phones.
Remember, some of us aren’t as informed as you, we need a little help.
NSO Pegasus spyware was discovered on phones of activists, journalists, dissenters the world over some years ago. It is now likely being used by the US government which cried foul when the news first broke.
It was found to be a zero-click !!! spyware. Meaning you didn't even have to click on something accidentally or ignorantly for it to get established on your phone. Then you were basically owned. They sold it to whoever, especially autocratic, authoritarian regimes who were using it to surely crackdown on any dissent.
Surveillance as a Service: The Global Impact of Israeli “Defense” Technologies on Privacy and Human Rights
A stasi like future awaits us all, even inside democracies.
Its not surprising, the most support outside of Nazi Germany for Nazi Germany was from the United States including the Nazis taking eugenics from field trips to the southern United States.
Fuck you, Biden. I’m only voting for you because the alternatives are worse.
I'm going a step further and not voting for him.
Do what you want, but don’t kid yourself into thinking you’ll help the situation by exercising a vote for Trump, 3rd party, or abstaining from voting. Expect a lot worse treatment for Palestine, its citizenry, and other middle eastern countries from his opponent.
That being said, you may not have to worry about who you’ll vote for ever again if the fascists gain control… you’ll have a lot of other things to worry about, but voting won’t be one of them.
"I'm only voting for you because you're my preferred candidate."
...uh huh
Voting.
There is no lesser evil when it comes to genocide. You have already hit rock bottom.
Dearest Biden,
Please stop trying to get Trump elected.
Pleasant Regards, Everyone who gives a shit about abortion access.
Only reason Biden is free to support genocide is because his opponent is Trump. It is the current political climate responsible for Israel's blatant disregard to humanity.
This is why Biden doesn't care about his campaign promises. He just has to use the name Trump a few times in his speech and call several minority groups "the fabric of society" while doing nothing to help them. The only people winning during the next election is the lobbyists and the "bOtH muh SiDeS" people (the ones who complain if you critique about their favorite party).
Remember, Trump moved the whole US embassy to Jerusalem just to give Palestinians the middle finger. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1I810Z/ You can be sure that a very high majority of US politicians will take the same pro-Israel stand. The reason is simply campaign funding and lobbying. Look at AIPAC
fucking seriously. he won't step aside, and he won't stop holding it over the abyss.
he wants to make it as painful as possible to vote for him, but I just... I know at this point I can't, abd I'm starting to see much less radical people than me make that call.
Because Trump would have handled this better?
Only reason we didn't end up with a war in Iran in 2020 is pure fucking luck.
That doesn't make any sense.
If Iran is allied with Russia, and Trump is Putin's puppet, then wouldn't Trump be good for Iran?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/10/iran-nuclear-bomb-iaea-fordow/
Brought to you by decades of Israeli lobbying money mixed with gullible religious morons in the U.S. legislature. Money in politics leads to genocide.
In 2023 Israel spent $4 million in lobbying and got $4 billion in aid. We should pool together and buy ourselves some politicians, y'all. No other investment reliably returns 1000:1.
We should pool together and buy ourselves some politicians, y’all.
Traditionally, one calls that "forming a party" but unfortunately we live in a two-party system.
It should be noted that the $4B Israel got wasn't just $4B for Israel. It was $4B for purchase of US weapons systems too Israel. And it wasn't just Israel lobbying for this spending. You had a host of MIC lobbyists throwing in their own millions.
It should further be noted that AIPAC isn't just doing a one-time $4M retail purchase of legislation. They've spend decades building up an enormous back bench of former US Congresscritters, allied staffers, political bundlers, event organizers, and religious affiliates. They injected $4M down the funnel in an 11th-hour push for the next traunch of military kick-backs that they've been receiving since the Bush 43 administration.
No other investment reliably returns 1000:1.
Its important to recognize that Israel provides an incredibly vital service to the US military in the form of maintaining control of the Suez Canal. Its not just a 1000:1 ROI. They're holding Egyptian national leadership at gunpoint and we're kicking them over some money to keep the gun loaded.
Re: gullible religious folks in the US.
After 9/11, I remember seeing "Jews for Jesus" pamphlets being passed out by right wing Jewish folks to any person passing by. It was a cynical ploy to use the environment to further right wing Israeli religious interests. Land grabs by way of illegal settlement building has never stopped.
Of course, many, perhaps majority even, of evangelical and fundamentalist christians in America are the most 'useful idiots' since they believe the Rapture requires full support of Israel in order for end times Prophecy to come to fruition.
Are you sure the people passing it out were right-wing Jews and not "Messianic Jews?" Because the latter are often people who were raised as Christians, found out they had a Jewish grandmother, then became a Messianic Jew to feel closer to her.
There are also plenty of people who are third-generation Messianic Jew or whatever.
Sure, there are people who are ethnically Jewish and grew up steeped in Jewish culture and religion but one day converted to Christianity, but they aren't the majority of the "Jews for Jesus" crowd.
Such a great idea to make an international organisation for diplomacy where the nations that are already dominant also have complete power to stop anything they don't like.
Surely this is a credible institution and not just a respectable veil over imperialism.
That's right just sit there and frown at the guy vetoing instead of doing your duty to humanity and punching him in the face.
if there are 192 people at a table and 1 Nazi you have 193 Nazis
It's so funny to me that you guys turn to violence so quickly to get what you want, like you start talking like you care about things being fair but literally can't help but show your true colors 'Anyone who doesn't do what I want should be beaten!'
You love imperialism, you just think you should be in charge of it lol
"you guys" meaning who exactly? Anarchists aren't known for their love of imperialism.
And what, a punch is imperialism now? You really just want anyone that disagrees with you to be a nazi or something, don't you? Or I guess you assumed I was a tankie, didn't you? Some words are just doomed once liberals get a hold of them.
I guarantee you if someone punched that guy in his stupid fucking face mid-veto it would be front page news and it would influence public opinion, and at the very least that person could tell their grandkids, "I didn't just sit there frowning and doing nothing while thousands were condemned to death and suffering." It would also delegitimise the UN quite a lot, which I think would be a good thing. But it's not going to happen because anybody there is well-paid and has a prestigious position, which is one of the ways an institution like that maintains its appearance of legitimacy.
EDIT: Oh, and anyone that doesn't "do what I want"? You think there are two sides to whether Palestine needs support and recognition in the midst of an ongoing genocide? This isn't a difficult moral calculation.
"Biden and his administration are doing all they can" my ass!
They're exactly as beholden to the Israeli apartheid state as all the previous ones going back to 1948, if not MORE than many of them.
Just one example of many that the DNC is still stuck in 1992 and almost half as unresponsive to the will of the majority of the people as the literal fascists on the other side of the aisle 🤬
They are doing all they can to cover for Israel, while attempting to appear neutral.
Someone remind me again why does the US, or any country, have veto power in the UN?
A veto power basically makes the entire institution useless.
Because without it there would be no UN, and as useless as you think the current UN is, I promise you no UN is even more useless.
It's bleak but the fact that we can even get everybody in the same room is remarkable. Like it or not, a UN where Monaco and the US (or, Russia, China, etc) have the same power at the table is a UN where the big players reject its authority and form their own clubs.
Justify how there would be no UN without such veto. Because, honestly, an agreement council where you can only agree as a group to do something if the big players don't say otherwise to me looks like it just compounds the eternal problems we already have and is nothing more than just another flavour of "feel free to protest in a way that does not importunate me" Capitalism.
You say that all have the same power but Its never the small countries vetoing the big questions though.
Its always USA , China or Russia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vetoed_United_Nations_Security_Council_resolutions
See league of nations.
US, China, Russia, France, and the UK have veto power over Security Council resolutions because they are the ones who are called upon to actually enforce Security Council resolutions.
The threat of violence.
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood told the Security Council that the veto “does not reflect opposition to Palestinian statehood but instead is an acknowledgment that it will only come from direct negotiations between the parties.”
Fuck you Robert Wood!
I would love to see an Internet campaign to bombard him with "Fuck You Robert Wood, the coward."
Reminder the US is an imperialist power that is evil.
The vote in the 15-member Security Council was 12 in favor, the United States opposed and two abstentions, from the United Kingdom and Switzerland. U.S. allies France, Japan and South Korea supported the resolution.
Pretty interesting
The US veto allows their allies to vote for popularity without being bound
We won’t know if that happened here but it could have influenced it
Taiwan can't get recognized despite its government being a founding member of the UN and folks surprised it's contentious for Palestine to be recognized?
This outcome was by no means surprising, especially as it was not Palestine's first application for membership and the US has even vetoed resolutions calling for an immediate ceasefire in the conflict between Israel and Palestine on several occasions. The difference to your comparison, however, is that Israel itself, unlike China, has no right of veto in the UN Security Council.
This is a bit misleading, though, Taiwan doesn't want to be recognised as a nation, it wants to be recognised as the one legitimate government of China.
Palestine just wants a seat at the table.
The problem with that is that Bejing makes it very clear that declaring independence would lead to an invasion of Taiwan. So for a long time most Taiwanese rather did want to keep the current basically independent status quo. However support for unification was low since Taiwan became a democracy. Since the Hong Kong protests and the extraction bill polls for independence show a majority supporting it though.
Also Palestine has a seat on the table, just no vote, as a observer of the UN without being a member.
I posed a question in another thread, but this one seems like it's winning:
Who would represent Palestine if they had been accepted? Who can represent Palestine?
Well in a 2 state solution, you'd expect the Palestinians to be able to choose.
Unless we don't want a 2 state solution.
PA, you know Gaza isn't Palestine. Plus the two state is set at the founding of Israel, and both Israel and Palestine have equal rights to be represented in the UN.
It is another story that Israel is trying deliberately to undermine Palestinian rights and oppose any statehood. All the road blocks, checkpoints, walls, settlement etc. built and imposed to the Palestinian population are completely illegal according to international law, but again Israel backed by the US act with extreme impunity.
Why hasn't PA held elections for 20 years or so?
Of course the UN is a joke anyway, so it’s not like this really matters in any way.
WTH
To the surprise of absolutely no one
Was curious what was the US's perspective/reasoning behind not voting for it. From the article...
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood told the Security Council that the veto “does not reflect opposition to Palestinian statehood but instead is an acknowledgment that it will only come from direct negotiations between the parties.”
The United States has “been very clear consistently that premature actions in New York — even with the best intentions — will not achieve statehood for the Palestinian people,” deputy State Department spokesman Vedant Patel said.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood told the Security Council that the veto “does not reflect opposition to Palestinian statehood but instead is an acknowledgment that it will only come from direct negotiations between the parties.”
Ambassador Riyad Mansour told the council after the vote: “The fact that this resolution did not pass will not break our will and it will not defeat our determination.”
Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. ambassador, reiterated the commitment to a two-state solution but asserted that Israel believes Palestine “is a permanent strategic threat.”
Ambassador Gilad Erdan called the resolution “disconnected to the reality on the ground” and warned that it “will cause only destruction for years to come and harm any chance for future dialogue.”
Six months after the Oct. 7 attack by the Hamas militant group, which controlled Gaza, and the killing of 1,200 people in “the most brutal massacre of Jews since the Holocaust,” he accused the Security Council of seeking “to reward the perpetrators of these atrocities with statehood.”
After the vote, Erdan thanked the United States and particularly President Joe Biden “for standing up for truth and morality in the face of hypocrisy and politics.”
The original article contains 952 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I still don't get it. Didn't this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
give Palestine and Israel equal right to exist? It seems like Israel got all the benefits and Palestine none, it just keeps ceding (and getting stolen) more and more land to Israel.
Taxation without representation?
Yup. The majority of the US people want the US government to stop being a lapdog for a fascist apartheid regime.
No amount of neoliberal party loyalists downvoting your true statement is going to change the fact that this means that the US government doesn't faithfully represent its people.
Weel, well, well - here's another one that I did nazi coming.
Symbolic gesture vetoed.
Palestine simply doesn't have any viable leadership. It's ok to criticize Israel, but still not ok to criticize Palestine, so nobody is holding Palestinian leadership to account.
You got Fatah which is corrupt. You got Hamas which is corrupt and are terrorists.
If Palestine had full independence tomorrow, what kind of state would it be? A failed state. The next Yemen, Somalia, or Afghanistan.
But yeah give some legitimacy to the corrupt leaders of an occupied territory and continue to avoid looking at the reality of how bad their leadership is a little longer. That will improve things for Palestinians!
Oh right, I forgot we're supposed to performatively care about Palestinians while not actually caring about them.
Chicken versus the egg. How can they have any viable leadership when there is no right of self-determination? When there is an occupation? When land grabs via illegal settlement building has continued for decades and decades. Israel gets admonished at best but none that hasn't stopped the settlement building (filled by crazy right wing religious folks). When there's a boot on your neck at all times, how do you expect a people to flourish, to have a "viable leadership"? When right wing religious zealots who believe all of Israel is theirs run amok.
This argument seems to want to shift blame on the occupied, not the occupiers. Basically another form of dehumanization that has been trodded out when it becomes harder to look past the indiscriminate, disproportionate (common theme) killing of civilians.
I have Palestinian friends and I actually care about them fwiw.
You're getting downvoted, but a lot of people who only hear of the conflict from their own bubble and from what mainstream media reports do not realise that there are various factions within Palestine. So much so that there was a civil war between PLO and Hamas. PLO controls West Bank while Hamas controls Gaza from this resulting conflict.
In any case, Fatah and Hamas are untrustworthy, while the moderate PLO are neutered and often accused by ordinary Palestinians as puppet for Israel.
Palestine is not wholly represented by one government or faction. I'm afraid you're right on this. I think the only way for there to be peace is for ordinary Israelies and Palestinians to mutually demand to their politicians to renounce violence and both accept the two-state solution.
Does Palestine even have a reasonable government that could represent them?
Does Israel?
Nope. Then again, when it comes to this particular conflict, neither does the US.
And it's about to become even worse when the combination of Biden's insistence that Zionism is more important than human rights and the DNC's insistence on him likely leads to another extremely avoidable loss to the mango Mussolini and his fascist henchmen.
Does the US?
What’s next? Palestine applying to join NATO? Cats and dogs living together?
PEOPLE ARE GONNA MARRY HORSES!
Palestine applying to join NATO?
Stupid US-ians.
I mean yeah, there are minimum standards for entry. Maybe Palestine should get its shit together and stop choosing terrorism every chance it gets.
The proposal is for the West Bank government to be recognized in the UN as the State of Palestine, not Hamas. By conflating both you're regurgitating far right talking points meant to dehumanie Palestinians and deprive them of any tool to answer to literal crimes against humanity.
They should start demonstrating their commitment to humanity by condemning Hamas, condemning the October 7 attacks, and then by pursuing the war criminals in their own ranks for a while, instead of offering support and shelter.
Your comment reminded me of one of those times Trump's campaign manager, former attorney or something was charged with crimes, and then Trump pretended he didn't even know the person.
I am not strongly opposed the West Bank having UN membership but they have work to do. I could be convinced they're on their way. I haven't seen much evidence of that.
