The truth about organic milk: cows are suffering on even the most “humane” dairy farms

I am also simultaneously asking myself if prices for oatmilk are fair. Where I live the cheapest option is 1€ for a liter. But if you ever made oatmilk by yourself, you know how cheap it is do do it at home. I know I'm just lazy as f*, so I am not doing it and therefore should not rant. But I am really curious what's behind this pricing, other than higher tax than on milk.

Yeah that’s always the tricky bit with making “change” - not everybody can afford it, but those who can should keep that in mind and maybe bump a bit more for those who can’t

Actually I never thought about it, but it makes total sense. Is it simple? Could you share your recipe?

Drinking a litre of milk every day can't be healthy. It causes osteoporosis and can raise your cholesterol levels.

https://iphysio.io/osteoporosis/

Do as you want but for everyone reading this thread, I thought it was a good resource to add. And also keep in mind, the animal agriculture lobby is huge and they publish biased counter studies with questionable methods.

I think a lot of people who switch to non-dairy milk never really liked to drink milk in the first place. It was easy for them to switch. I had to cut dairy when I had a baby with a milk allergy and it was so hard. None of the milk alternatives taste anything like cow milk. I hated all of them. Vegan cheese is pretty terrible, too. Even the most expensive fancy cashew ones taste significantly worse than the cheapest cow milk cheese. I did like Daiya's smoked gouda and nutritional yeast is pretty good, but other than that I was so glad to have cow milk back in my diet after a year of being dairy-free. I like meat alternatives but dairy alternatives are just bad. I hope science figures it out.

That baby with the dairy allergy outgrew the allergy but still prefers oat milk.

I find it really depends on the brand. I have no idea what the differences really are (or even how it's made in the first place) but in my experience around half are as you describe and half are delicious

That’s quite a logic leap there if I’m being honest.

I grey up drinking whole milk and having 2-3 glasses a day, I love milk.

I buy the purple Silk brand that has the extra protein in it (red ribbon printed on the carton) and I’m telling you it’s gas in cereal. By itself, it’s still not whole milk - don’t get me wrong, it’s just 30x less watery than almond milk was but maybe the protein one is thicker or something idk.

Smell and taste seems to very a lot between people. I'm not even surprised.

I love oat milk, personally.

Oats don't contain gluten

Is that different from someone with a gluten allergy?

Mmm I sorta agree with you but soy milk and soy plantations in general (or whatever the proper name is for a farm of soybeans) definitely contribute to deforestation it takes a lot of land to turn out enough product

Here’s a quick mention in a posting I found - I’m sure there are some studies out there if you’re interested

https://bastyr.edu/about/news/which-milk-alternative-most-eco-friendly

Adjust your diet. Add pea or soy protein powder if you need to and make sure you're eating a lot of beans and tofu and tempeh. Most likely losing muscle is due to protein deficiency so that's your answer.

It’s really tough. There’s a lot we’re still learning about the gut and nutrient absorption- but as long as we protect science, we can expect improvements.

The work with gene editing and growing meats and whatnot has been a long time coming - stay optimistic, stay curious! ❤️

Almond milk I think was the better alternative.

Almond milk also requires 6x as much water to produce than oat milk. Almonds in general are a very high water usage crop.

That's also the case for animal milk. And compared to what's in the average cereal you can forget about the oat milk. Just take a little bit less of your cereal (and maybe add a bit of nuts/seeds) and you should be good to go.

While that may be true, the title and article act as if the US is the world, as if "the most humane dairy farms" in the US are the most humane dairy farms in the world, which is clearly not even remotely close to the truth.

It might be the 2nd largest milk producing country, but they couldn't sell the milk in the EU due to the unethical and unhygienic way it's produced. That's OP's point

I'm pissed off that when I move out of the USA because it's turned into a fucking nightmare, I'll still be affected by things happening in the USA. The outsized effect that it has makes me mad.

I don't remember ever getting a class like that, and if they tried to put one in they'd invite the considerably scary wrath of the farmers.

I don't remember any of that from school.

I got one year of food wheel followed by 11 of food pyramid, and that was the extent of diet and nutrition.

That depends on your school, and when you went there. Many of us did not learn any of this.

I second oat milk. Not watery like soy or almond milk. The other problem with almond milk is the insane amount of water that it takes to grow almonds.

Huh, yeah, it totally does taste like grass. Kinda.

I still drink it tho 💪

And contains more protein. Generally I'd say the best option, no clue why people are so hung up on oat specifically.

I find that soy milk tastes thinner and more watery than oat milk.

The acidity of our stomach alone is clear evidence we are evolved to eat meat, combine that with our need for B12, our teeth, length of intestines relative to other herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores puts the nail in the coffin for the idea that we are not meant to eat meat.

You wear shoes, statistically you probably wear glasses or contacts, all of us have back problems as we ags the idea that we should do what our body evolved to is honestly kinda ludicrous. I mean heck, we are talking through wifi, wires and electricity. We both drive a car to get food through major distribution chains. Nothing in our lives is natural.

Take some damn b12 supplements, the overwhelming majority of people, vegans and carnist alike, have a deficiency anyways.

Life eats life, that's how it works.

Yeah, but beans don't have a brain, nerve endings or a nervous system. Sure they are alive, but it's intellectual dishonest to think that a pigs and beans interact with the world in the same way. So yes, life eats life, but my life sustaining food doesn't feel pain. It has for over a decade now.

Like, I feel you should read the article? The idea that you can kill something ethically is cognitive dissonance.

Most farms have a bull

This is completely false. Most dairy cows are artificially inseminated.

Approximately 74% of pregnancies on US dairy farms are attributable to artificial insemination USDA, 2014

Did you just want to bingo falsehoods? Or did you want to provoke people into providing links for every claim? Either way, you succeeded I guess.

and "killing the baby", you mean like later in life to eat?

At least in the Netherlands, the species of dairy cows are focused on dairy. If a bull is born it is raised for about half a year, then slaughtered and most often the meat is exported since calf meat isn't popular here.

At that point they are basically still babies, or at least the meat is called "calf meat".

What happens if you don’t milk a dairy cow?

Not milking a dairy cow, can cause a lot of problems. A dairy cow will produce about 8 gallons or 30 litres a day. Adding to the problem of not milking is the missing calf, as they are normally kept separately to ensure higher milk yields.

If you stop milking this cow altogether, milk production will continue until the pressure starts to build up. This process normally starts a dry up phase, which will prevent the cow from producing more milk.

Because of modern breeding practices, it’s impossible for dairy cows to dry up naturally in a high production phase before facing serious problems. As, extending this phase increase the milk output of a cow, making it more profitable to keep this state as long as possible.

For those cows, stopping to milk them will cause the udder to increase is size until it can not expand any further. This cow will be in serious pain at this point. Caused by the enormous size of the udder it will also be in the way of everyday activities, preventing the cow from properly standing, sitting or laying.

If pressure still isn’t released then the udder can rupture or get infected. Ultimately leading to the death of the cow, if she is not treated and pressure is released.

https://farmityourself.com/what-happens-if-you-dont-milk-cows/

A lot of baby cows are just straight up kidnapped from mom and killed. No way around that. Some are raised to adulthood, but on most dairy operations the kidnapping still happens even then, otherwise the calf ends up drinking the farmer's 'product' and cutting into profits. Look up footage of a calf being taken from its mom in this process. Absolutely fucking devastating.

The denial runs deep

The problem is that one side is running on facts, the other side is running on "nuh-uh I like things the way they are"s

From personal observation, non-meat farm animals are lean, sinewy and taste like shit. I’m not actually sure what they do with the calves but it’s not growing them as normal meat cows.

Also, how does eating the corpse make killing more (or less) okay?

I didn't bring up the morality of eating meat because it's tangential to this conversation.

I’m not actually sure what they do with the calves but it’s not growing them as normal meat cows.

They raise them for a little bit and then slaughter them and sell it as veal.

FYI that's not a half gallon. Most oat milk cartons are less than 64 oz. The only one I found to be a true half gallon is the walmart GV brand.

I thought the same but once you open the carton it’s 7 days from the date you open it. At least that was the case with almond milk. I thought they lasted a lot longer especially since they are shelf stable etc. I had a ton of black mold on and around the rim of my almond milk well before the expiration date and that is because I’m fine print it says date of expiration is 7 days after opening.

They expire 7 days from the date you open the carton. Atleast for almond milk and I’m fairly certain that applies to oat milk as well. I thought the same as you. But one bad experience is all you need.

Interesting I will have to try this!

I'm saying attacking the dairy industry is a winnable battle and a step in the right direction but vegans are operating on pure emotion, it's all or nothing for them and I think we all know which it currently is.

Milk is a super food that is only supplanted IMHO by kefir. That shit is incredible.

I get both my whole milk and kefir from local farms. One is in town, and the other is only about 15 miles away. It's the freshest, most delicious milk I've ever had and I can hardly stomach the store bought stuff anymore.

Imagine drinking milk from something that can't consent smdh 😞

Decade ;)

Do Americans get weak bones if they don't get milk?

eat spinach