9mo ago

My wife was unimpressed by Vim

185 comments

Maybe she just wasn't impressed by your noob skills and is having doubts herself?
- My jaw literally dropped reading that.
  I think it's time to go outside.

This relationship can be saved as long as the guy's wife does not start expressing an interest in Emacs. That would, of course, put an end to the relationship, but if she's one of those "Notepad is all I need" types, there is hope this can be worked through.
- Maybe she already evolved past vim to kakoune. 😎
  
  and evolved past kakoune to helix

"nothing fancy" that's the issue, just some jumping won't impress her; you gotta do the real crazy shit. Friggin "wife not impressed by my cooking? I make a hard boiled egg and she isn't impressed"
- He should have installed neovim with LSPs for Python/Rust/etc for intellisense and linting to really get her all hot and bothered.
- jumping won’t impress her
  Unless it's jump humping.

"See if you just learn these 87 simple keyboard shortcuts, you won't need to simply drag with the mouse and cut and paste at all!"

my wife
vim user
fake
- At first, I was mad. Then the slow, sad realization that you're more right than not...
  
  Hey I’m married and use Vim. I feel attacked 😅

As someone who's been a software developer for over a decade and in IT even longer, I still don't use vi/vim for anything other than when crontabs have it set as the editor.
- alias vi=nano
  
  export EDITOR=nano.
  But (neo)vim is amazing so there is no need to do that.
  
  You can set your default editor (maybe in .bashrc or .bash_profile? I forget), but I'm far too lazy.
- Honestly if you don't use vim motions in your ide of choice, you're missing out big time. Being able to do things like "Delete everything inside these parentheses". di( or "wrap this line and the two lines below r in a pair of {}" ys2j{ , or "swap this parameter with the next one" cxia]a. with a single shortcut is game changing.
  Even just being able to repeat an action a number of times is ridiculously useful. I use relative line numbers, so I can see how many lines away a target is and just go "I need to move down 17 lines" and hit 17j.
  Absolutely insane how much quicker it is too do stuff with vim motions than ctrl-shift-arrows and the like
  
  That's really neat, but I don't think I do that often enough to really make the performance hit of learning a whole new thing and memorizing keyboard shortcuts and commands worth it. I don't find myself refactoring code a ton, especially after moving to a more TDD-like model.
  
  Absolutely insane how much quicker it is too do stuff with vim motions than ctrl-shift-arrows and the like
  Those tasks are a very small part of work time, so most people don't feel the need to optimize it.
  
  Only if you use a qwerty keyboard, otherwise it's just annoying as shit

ive heard women are into emacs these days
- We are, but, like... Just preferring something else doesn't make vim unimpressive. Silver medal's still pretty fucking prestigious, you know?
  
  It's not like ed had any chance of being anything other than last, anyway

I'm sorry but your wife won't be impressed by basic vim motions. You need to learn some more advanced motions to get her wet.

I refuse to see how vim and emacs is worth learning. I only use it because that's the only option when editing server files. Beyond this, I couldn't imagine coding in these environments from scratch.
- The biggest benefit of (neo)vim is the motions.
  Honestly if you don't use vim motions in your ide of choice, you're missing out big time. Being able to do things like "Delete everything inside these parentheses". di( or "wrap this line and the two lines below in a pair of {}" ys2j{ , or "swap this parameter with the next one" cxia]a. with a single shortcut is game changing.
  Even just being able to repeat an action a number of times is ridiculously useful. I use relative line numbers, so I can see how many lines away a target is and just go "I need to move down 17 lines" and hit 17j.
  Absolutely insane how much quicker it is too do stuff with vim motions than ctrl-shift-arrows and the like.
  
  Honestly those things just don't sound like common enough actions to be worth shaving 0.5 seconds off. How often do you know exactly how many lines to move a line by? And how often do you even need to move a line that far?
  I still don't buy it.
  
  Honestly if you don't use vim motions in your ide of choice, you're missing out big time. Being able to do things like "Delete everything inside these parentheses". di( or "wrap this line and the two lines below in a pair of {}" ys2j{ , or "swap this parameter with the next one" cxia]a. with a single shortcut is game changing.
  I read things like this and feel like I do a different type of coding than everyone else does. I'm not generating code at this speed.
  
  Being able to do things like "Delete everything inside these parentheses". di( or "wrap this line and the two lines below in a pair of {}" ys2j{ , or "swap this parameter with the next one" cxia]a. with a single shortcut is game changing.
  Those are handy, but most IDEs make at least the second two easy to do without reaching for the mouse (not sure about the first one), and for most people the other conveniences offered by IDEs are pretty attractive. I do use vim when I'm working in the terminal though, because it's solid and handles large files better than anything else I know.
  
  For me that's not how it works. there is no way to escape mouse. People use Jira, Figma, Charles, lots of different software that just doesn't have support for Vim like keys.
  Vim is good at editing a single file at a time. In my case I do like 95% reading and 5% editing. Most of the time there are bugs to fix, in a day I might read 20-30 files and change 5 lines in 5 different files.
  now add one more detail. None of my coworkers know Vim so when I ask for help I need to make sure I turn Vim shortcuts otherwise they won't be able to help.
  you can go on GitHub on any repo and press . you will get vscode in your browser. Did same with my server and after that I just never want to look at Vim. If I have to use cli then I will install micro editor
  
  Feel it's worth noting that ys[motion][symbol] is a plugin (vim-surround or nvim-surround at your option) and most IDEs therefore don't support it
  Also as for plugins, Tim Pope's vim-argumentative is another one I love. "Swap this parameter with the next one" is >, and "swap this parameter with the previous" is <,
- Go watch a dev who is competent with vim/emacs and you will feel like a 7 year old on a tablet. I didn't give neovim a try until I was thoroughly embarrassed with my ability as a professional text editor (software dev).
  Is it the motions you don't like or the editor itself? After 3 days with the motions I could never go back.
  
  Are there any videos of this sort of editing, because honestly every single person I've watched use Vim has just been like "oh wait that's the wrong thing.. hold on." constantly. You're going to say "they aren't competent" but that's kind of the point - approximately nobody is competent in Vim because it isn't worth learning.
  Even so, I'd be interested if there are any videos of pros doing real editing (not "look what I can do") on YouTube. Anyone know of any?
  
  Is it the motions you don't like or the editor itself?
  I like mouse more.
  and only thing bottlenecking my work right now is me not my tools.
  
  There is absolutely nothing I do in an IDE frequently enough to memorize a bunch of arcane commands, especially in 3 days. Regex solves any mass-operations. For everything else the bottleneck is how long it takes to reason about code, not how quickly I can manipulate it.
  I will say that if I keep getting jobs where I have to use an IDE on a remote VM on AWS, I might prefer SSH/Vim to that bullshit. The frequency with which IntelliJ locks up all four of those virtual hamster wheel powered CPUs requiring a full restart is basically daily and sometimes multiple times a day.
- I learned vim in college when I needed to edit files over ssh. It's incredibly impressive as far as cli editors go, but I just don't see how it's more productive than a well set up ide with hotkeys.
  
  I barely know Vim, I'm an Emacs guy. Every time I pair with a colleague using an IDE, I find myself having to exercise great restraint, and not complain about how slow and fussy everything they do is. When I've worked with skilled vimmers, I have to admit that they invoke the deep magic nearly as efficiently as I do. Hotkeys? Pshaw, child's play.
  
  it's just reliable. especially with remote work, everything is "over ssh", and you can create a very consistent environment with only a few config files
  the amount of AI you can get into these IDEs is impressive, though. probably the only reason I'd ever make the switch
  
  Most of the productivity comes from the motions; Being able to jump around the text incredibly fast, combining motions with actions and repeats, it's unparalleled in the sheer speed. I can delete an entire function with the same basic pattern Id use to delete a word.
  daf -> Delete the current function my cursor is on daw -> Delete the current word d3af -> Delete the next three functions
  Stuff like that, but with everything
- I only use it because that’s the only option when editing server files.
  suggestion 1: use nano. Unlike vi(m) and emacs, it's meant for humans, all the command shortcuts you can execute are listed at the bottom.
  suggestion 2: browse the servers in question via your file explorer (sftp://user@server or just sftp://server) of choice or WinSCP if you're on windows, open whatever file with your local graphical text editor of choice.
  
  My hardcore old IT dudes mocked me once like, "why install Nano? Vim is right there."
  And I had to explain to them that I don't live in the terminal.
  They didn't install Nano and I spent 5x longer trying to get the settings correct in Vim.
- By the way, for editing server files consider nano. It's also widely available, has simpler shortcuts and displays them on the screen. It's obviously not powerful like vim, but a good match when you just need to edit a config file.
  
  Nano is just as fiddly as vim and way less powerful when you actually figure out what you're doing though?
  Ie a completely redundant piece of software that has no place being pre-installed anywhere
- Nano is perfectly fine for me.
  But I know the basics of vim if I need to use it.
  
  I have a cheatsheet of all the necessary vim shortcuts!
  :q!
- That's probably what the wife was thinking I bet.
- I refuse to see how vim and emacs is worth learning.
  Interesting choice of words. You aren't unable to see...you refuse to. Why would you refuse knowledge?
  
  Because I've followed tutorials and watched plenty of videos on vim and it's not worth the steep learning curve compared to the gui text editors I'm familiar with.
- Cause it cool 😎

Stop showing off VIM to your wife would be a good start. I mean, I would do the same if she tried to show off her make tutorials to me.
- Make? As in Makefiles or make-up?
  
  Makefile obviously. What the heck is a "make-up"?
  
  You know what, that was mistype, but I'm not going to correct it since it fits better in this sub Lol
- You realize that this is !programmer_humor@programming.dev, right?
  
  Yes, and?

Divorce.
- He tried, but he doesn't know how to exit.
- Vidorce.
  
  :q!
- Vimorce
- :n!
- To divorce their imaginary wife, they would need to go to a mental health clinic, which means going outside; and might EVEN, dare I say, TOUCH GRASS!
  Redditors don't do that.
  
  bash
  
  $ touch grass $
  Now what?
  Redditors something something
  I think you might be lost.

Maybe she's into VSCode guys. So try VSCode with vim plugin.

Skill issue

Realising that your partner doesn't care about you after 10+ years can indeed be hard.
- Can confirm, am getting divorced after 12 years
  
  "Muuhuum, vim is wrecking havoc on relationships again!"

Guy shoulda tried emacs instead, wife is probably an elitist

Hey at least you showed her your vim and not your nano or micro

Emacs can do that obviously. And everything else.
- Relevant xkcd
- C-d to initiate a divorce. So convenient.
  
  However with Vim she won't know how to quit.

You have to adopt Emacs and show her that she can even play Tetris on it.

Have you tried tiny macros with q and @? Syntax highlighting? Z-folds? Or turn vi into a hex editor with :%!xxd ?
If that doesn't work, try :divorce

That's because her bull uses Emacs.

- Look, some of us old farts started on Linux back before nano was included by default, and your options for text editing on the command line were either:
  vi/vim, a perfectly competent text editor with arcane and unintuitive key combos for commands
  emacs, a ludicrously overcomplicated kitchen-sink program that had reasonable text-editing functionality wedged in between the universal woodchuck remote control and the birdcall translation system
  Given those options, most of us chose to learn how to key-chord our way around vim, and old habits die hard.

Would've loved to see which community they posted to. RelationshipAdvice?

sit your wife down in front of vim, and make her use it.
It'll make more sense immediately.
If not, divorce.
- Divorce
  Makes sense: Even a marriage is easier to exit than Vim
  
  I just dipped my feet in Vim yesterday, I found it not intuitive at all. :wq! To exit a read only file? I’m too dumb to think of syntax like that!
  
  priorities. Gotta have em set straight.

Show her you know how to exit vim and she'll instantly be naked and on the bed

You might've moved around too quickly. Stick to motion in the home row to start - hjkl. There are several ways to enter insert mode but DO NOT attempt it before she's familiar with the basic motions.

Deep down, every Vim user just wants one person to tell them that the countless hours they spent leaning to use it weren't a total waste of time.

:q!
- ZZ
  Edit: Has nobody actually tried doing this before downvoting? It saves and quits :/

My wife's impressed though, may be a little...
But she's also a programmer.

Maybe your wife is either VSCode or Atom gang

Have you tried rebooting her?
- it might take ages for her to choose the right boots for rebooting ;-)

Have you considered divorce?
- Reddit's r/relationshipadvice summed up in a few words.
  
  Delete Facebook, lawyer up, hit the vym.
- Really the only way.

I'm sorry, you need to :s/replace/her/ as soon as possible.

DIVORCE
- dVIorce
  
  tfw you can't get a divorce because you can't exit vim

Your wife is probably a secret Kakoune wizard and recognizes that your skills are decadent.

vi is more impressive when you've used ed for a few years. Nowadays, eh.

immediate divorce /s

She's your ex-wife now, right?

if your wife wasn't vi-impressed, maybe she already is vi-improved ;-)

Switch to emacs

make several limes with the number 0
visual mode mark them and do g ctrl a
gets 'em every time!

185 comments