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  • I really, really want to love Linux.

    Mate introduced me to Red Hat in the very late 90s and I keep trying various distros every year or two - last time was about 2020 so my views here might be a bit out of date now...

    When Ubuntu launched I truely believed this would be the start of genuine transformation. While I do see the overall progression in modern distros - installing them is easier than ever - but at its core, it just doesn't seem to truely improve when it comes to usability and user friendliness. As others have said, small changes or issues might require hours of research or a game of copy/paste/pray with commands found on a long lost forum page.

    MS make plenty of mistakes and dumb changes but windows has had significant improvements over the years both to the interface but also functions:

    W2k/XP dragged us kicking and screaming out of DOS and into the modern era.

    Vista made much needed changes to security/driver issues - but it was still a slow pig - particularly updating.

    Win7 fixed what Vista should have been - faster, cleaner and simpler, BSoD mostly a thing of the past now driver manufacturers have caught up from Vista fixed updates a bit.

    Win8.1 improved boot speeds, had a lot of good under the hood changes that improved deployment and self-repair, good tools for power users (we just don't talk about that start menu)

    Win10/11 greatly improved the updating process - still far from perfect but significantly faster and more reliable. No longer the upgrade lottery it was in XP - 7 era.

    Not wanting to start a fight here, just my perspective - unfortunately, every time I install Linux, the visuals look good but it always feels like a fancy modern skin over top of something akin to Win98. Sure, it's fast, secure as a MF and not riddled with modern bloat but genuine advancement of the platform feels absent.

    Maybe it's because I don't live elbow deep in Linux like I have in windows desktop for the past 20+ years. I do know that it's versatility and power is incredible - from phones and Pi's to world class infrastructure, so maybe that's it. It's designed for maximum power and flexibility that it's not really suited as a general purpose desktop for the masses like windows. It might always remain as a oddity at the desktop level, insanely powerful in the right hands and just a little too complex and less refined to appeal to those not willing to go deep into really learning it.

  • because i like driving but hate fixing my temperamental car

  • I think it comes down to my level of proficiency with computers. I'm a photographer and an artist. However, I am above average tech literate but with absolutely no formal training compared to anyone in the computer sciences.

    When I use a Mac or PC I am a power user and most people think of me as very tech inclined there. I used terminal or command prompt for commands that I have learned from Google for a specific tasks and can follow most guides and tutorials online, but I can't come up with strings of commands creatively to fix a problem.

    With Linux, there's all these weird little problems that might be unique to me and looking them up is really difficult and when someone says "oh it's easy. Use the terminal" as if this incredibly confusing thing that I have zero fundamental knowledge of can solve my problem. A genuinely feel illiterate when I use Linux. I can write sudo though 🤷‍♂️

    I feel like saying "just use terminal" is like telling a kindergarten kid to just use creative writing, algebra and calculus. The fundamentals have not been taught yet, I have no idea what to do.

    When I learned Mac or PC, I was shown how to use a mouse, I could read and just clicking around and opening things and reading help files let me intuitively learn on my own what to do. With Linux, this way of learning achieves nothing. Maybe I can turn wifi on and off assuming it works when I install it.

    And then when an update breaks everything and I have to mess around and terminal for hours or days between doing actual work, It's a nightmare. The only Linux thing I've managed to keep running for years on end is a Synology. I use it for a bit of backup things but thank goodness the OS updates and app updates all work. Nothing is broken and I barely touch the machine. It just grabs my files from the network and backs them up. You should have seen how shocked I was when I was trying to install something on docker and it took days for me to realize I just type the name of the thing I want and it grabbed it from the web and installed it automatically. I spent way too long trying to figure out how to grab the actual package files and open them like installing something via an MSI file in windows.

    • I am literally a Linux system admin, I bang on a command line interface for a living.

      But I don't use Linux at home, it's just so much work. Every single thing is complicated. Last time I really tried in earnest to switch to a full Linux setup I was somewhere in the middle of a quick and easy 24-step process to get my webcam working, compiling the drivers from a modified source - and it was just a moment that broke me. Like, I've been working on this for an hour and I know I can do it but this is stuff I don't even think about with windows.

      So I broke down and bought Windows 10. It's what I was trying to avoid, being a tight ass and didn't want to buy an new OS.

      I just don't have the patience to troubleshoot every tiny thing like a big endeavor. I can, I just don't want to. Everything I install, every peripheral I connect, it's always a big deal getting it to work. Heck with that, not worth the trouble.

      • And here I use Windows and get into a blind rage within 5 minutes at how much fucking around there is getting devices working properly, and then they just drop out for no apparent reason.

      • I don't think anything like this has really been the case for a long time. How long ago was this?

      • Bullshit... I honestly can't believe half the comments here... so much conjecture, straight up bullshit, or opinions outdated by like 10+ years. Yours is another... if you are actually familiar with Linux, there is absolutely no way that you would put up with the lack of control and customization, the god-awful workflows, and knowing there are ads and telemetry data being sent from Windows.

    • I think you've hit the nail on the head... many of us grew up using Windows and/or Mac. Incremental changes to the OS aren't a hindrance because of the baseline familiarity with the OS. Without OS familiarity, you're going to feel like a fish out of water.

      I'm getting better with linux, but I still daily drive on a Windows machine and I'm not sure if that will ever change.

    • The Windows command line is just so far removed from linux/mac terminal. Powershell is the closest Windows has out of the box really, and it's a poweruser tool exclusively. Not to mention that by default, Powershell comes with aliases for common commandline inputs, so users are still not learning the correct commands and syntax.

      This builds an ignorance problem, as you alluded to. I've done a lot in android and linux, but not enough where I can hammer away at a linux terminal and do anything but cause damage.

      And I don't think this is a "fault" in linux so to speak, but it's an issue that needs to be overcome for most users to make the switch from something where the terminal was strictly and "optional" tool for them.

      • WSL? Windows for GUI programs and WSL for any CLI work. All my servers are Linux but I just ssh into them. Everything runs this way all nice and happy and I never ever touch PowerShell.

  • First time I ever seriously used Linux was for work, back when I was a developer. You'd have to pay me to use it again. I like gaming, but I don't like wasting my time troubleshooting games. Nor do I enjoy debugging random crashes/black screens in random drivers. Sure, it's fun, but if I'm gonna work for it, someone somewhere better be signing my overtime slip. Cause I get a few hours free per day, and I'd rather not deal with sigsegv anymore if I can help it.

    Not to mention sound. My job as dev included using ALSA for some use cases. I don't know if you ever had the misfortune to need to do that or how it went for you, but if I ever need to touch that shit again I will scalp Torvalds with a goddamn headphone jack.

    I installed windows 11 when I bought my last PC. I figured I'd give it a shot, see if it's as bad as all my dev friends say it is. You know how many drivers I've had to fix to make my games work? Zero. You know how many hours I spent debugging weird issues? Also zero.

    There's a reason windows has a price tag. And part of that reason is that it works better than free stuff. I'm a believer in FOSS, but if you're a craftsman and you can't hammer a nail without needing to adjust your hammer every few swings, you should find a hammer that's not made out of silly putty and dreams.

  • I used Linux desktop as my work rig for a year and a half. I absolutely hated it, had constant problems and lost time almost every day to stupid workarounds. When I tried to search or ask for help the answer I was usually met with was "your hardware is wrong" or "why do you want to do that" or more often than no "you're using the wrong distro, you should use [different one every time]". I also found the UI to be quite ugly and often obtuse, you can tell that there's very few open source UI/UX designers. I switched back to windows and I've had better performance and less bugs.

    • Do you feel like you ever got over the initial setup period? A lot of what you are describing is what I encounter after a fresh install but I don't typically have any issues after a little bit of tweaking.

      • Maybe because it was a work laptop I didn't spend as much time on setup as I would for a personal computer. There's were a lot of issues that I solved with tweaking at the start, but many of the lingering issues either had no solution or were so intermittent or complex that I couldn't figure out how to word it in a way that would lead me to the solution.

  • The amount of comments in here that are conjecture or just straight up bullshit is off the charts... my tech illiterate wife, and my 80+ year old grandparents use Linux without any problems.

  • When I've tried Linux in the past, it's way too much work with limited selection of apps. It's more of a toy to play around with. Learning all the command line stuff, editing text files and selling up jobs, etc. It wasn't for me.

    Mind you, last time I seriously looked at Linux was when Red hat was still free. I know things have changed since then.

    • Oh boy have things changed. The big headline distros of today are more stable, functional and have a much wider variety of software than 2 years ago, let alone a decade ago.

    • Yeesh. That's like hating Windows because your experience is based on Windows 98. A lot of things has changed since then, a LOT.

  • I used Linux Mint for several years on a dual-boot laptop. I rarely found myself booting Windows. While there was a learning curve, Mint was fairly accessible out of the box and was generally a delight to use. Until it wasn't. At some point, the drivers for my video card updated, and just flat broke everything. And I can't really use a computer on which I can't see the desktop. I waited. And waited. A fix for the driver may have eventually come, but after awhile, booting into Windows just became my default, until eventually I just wiped the Linux partition to recover the storage space.

    It was fun while it lasted, and I may choose one day to give it another go for the fourth time. This wasn't the first time I've had something like this happen. First time was with Fedora, and the second was Ubuntu. Each time, I had the same "it worked until it didn't" experience, and each time it stopped working was usually some kind of broken driver making my hardware incompatible.

583 comments