A 7,000-Pound Car Smashed Through a Guardrail. That’s Bad News for All of Us.
Vehicles are getting way too heavy to be safe.
There was a discussion a couple of years ago around gasoline taxes and how they are supposed to pay for roadway maintenance. The question came up about EVs. There were discussions about how to include EVs in the taxation system so they would pay for their fair share of the road. One of the options was to impose a tax attached to your vehicle registration based upon the weight of the vehicle. The greater the weight, the more wear and tear it produces on the road surface. This might be one solution to the barrier problem, namely moving the extra cost to the reason for the extra cost.
The "problem" with that tax is that if it's applied fairly, it gets very big very fast. The damage to the road goes up with weight, but not linearly. Not a square factor, either. Not even cube. It's to the fourth power.
Start applying that to long haul trucks and the whole industry will be bankrupt in a month. The implication being that we are all subsidizing that industry with taxes on roads. Including that one trucker with a "who is John Galt?" sticker on the back.
That said, this is also a very good argument for improving cargo trains to the point where most long haul trucking goes away.
And frankly, I'm really ok with this.
Trains should be the backbone for shipping. They are WAY more fuel efficient, like 3 to 4x more efficient than shipping by truck. Rail requires far less maintenance. And there's always the option install a 3rd rail and use electricity instead of fossil fuels to ship.
Yeah, I think turning highways back into methods of travel instead of "rolling warehouses saving Walmart a few bucks not storing anything on site" is a good thing.
There's no need to have the tax be the exact same for every vehicle class. Proper long haul trucks have to be heavy, private cars do not.
The US already has 8 or 10 different vehicle classes defined by weight, the lightest being 6000lbs (which is still ridiculously high, my VW Up is 2200lbs).
In Australia (and I assume other similar countries) trucks have tax concessions to avoid the cost of food fluctuating too much with the cost of diesel. This tax doesn't need to be any different.
Trucks already pay a lot more in tax and regulatory expenses. In my state, annual car registration is $30-ish. Annual registration for a full-sized 18-wheeler is $1350 for the truck and $30-300 for each trailer. They also have to pay annual fees at the federal level which can be $600+/year, and an additional fuel tax on top of the existing state sales tax on diesel which I don't know the rate of right now. All of that applies to every single power unit and trailer in a fleet.
Trucks should be taxed much higher than cars, but too many people don't know or just don't care that this is already the case, and it has been this way since the 1940s.
To be fair, it's the fourth power of the axle weight, not vehicle weight. So it's not as extreme for long haul trucks as you make it sound, but still much higher than for a car
There was a discussion a couple of years ago around gasoline taxes and how they are supposed to pay for roadway maintenance.
I just want to point out, even if they're supposed to, gas taxes do not pay for roadway maintenance, not by a long shot
Some states do exactly that, or did back in the day. 30-years ago in Oklahoma, an old 2-ton dump truck with an antique plate was $20, a new Corvette $600. I think Texas flipped that and charged by weight vs. value.
ah yes, another anti-environment tax. More barriers to fossil-fuel free adoption. As you would expect, Mississippi already has this tax. Don't be like Mississippi.
Wouldn’t be anti-environmental… it would be for all vehicles including ICE and commercial, as well.
Then add some exceptions to cars that aren't as bad for the environment like electric cars.
Maybe exclude batteries for the weight calculation.
It isn't a hard problem to solve.
And the heavy vehicles get classified as light cargo so are largely exempt from those taxes. They're promoting and building heavy "cargo" vehicles specifically because they get exemptions for fuel efficiency and taxes (depending on location).
In the country I reside, everyone pays for the roads through income tax. Vehicle owners pay emissions tax. I think this is fair since everyone relies on the roads even if they never travel down a road themselves.
You can still tax large vehicles, because everyone bears the cost of having them around.
Not everbody "consumes" the same. So for consumer products (everything) would be distributed better if the price was in the product price itself. Along with it being included in the price of transfer services etc.
Come April, NZ will be charging EVs road user charges using the same price-per-kilometre mechanism diesel (diesel not have a fuel levy) vehicles use.
An alternative idea that I mentioned on a thread yesterday about vehicles with high bumpers, adjust the license class system to be more strict regarding vehicles. You already have to have extra training in a different license to run transport vehicles or semi trucks you should have to do the same with large vehicles, I'm not saying ban every pickup truck out there because I fully agree that trucks are a hard requirement especially in snow covered States like mine but there is a difference between having a pickup truck and having a monster truck at least in my opinion heavier or taller than low end transport vehicles
Agreed, there's also plenty of people who think that just because they have a large vehicle, that they're immune to the snow. Obviously there's a quantity of snow that trucks are more necessary for, but I'll admit to feeling a bit smug when I see ditches full of abandoned trucks and SUVs, as I drive by in my little front wheel drive sedan.
A more logical way would be to tax a car based on how many km/miles it travels in a year, at least partially.
I bet that my 1.5 tons car travelling 10.000 Km/year ruins the street a lot less than my neighbor's 1 tons car that travel 30.000 Km/year
Every mile an EV drives is already taxed as we already tax electricity consumption. There is no reason to add a tax for something already taxed.
That depends on if the tax is sufficient to cover the societal costs of driving that mile or not. Not every use of electricity degrades public infrastructure to the same extent, so if the maintenance burden an EV adds is more than what the electricity tax brings in, then additional taxes to make up the difference would make sense.
That is true also for fossil-fuel
Yeah well let's quit making 7000 pound consumer vehicles. Small EVs would be more efficient and better for the environment because they need less materials to build and and less energy to recharge.
Judging by the general trend I don't think this is happening anytime soon. The overall car industry is obsessed with even bigger cars.
And even in Europe it is sickening to see those half buses on our roads. And this is especially true for big cities, where parking space is very limited and usually those cars occupy park space for 1.5-2 cars.
And knowing that the fertility rate is really going down I wonder what justifies those cars.
Yeah because emission standards are based on size and weight. So why spend the money making environmentally effective equipment when you can just make everything bigger and still rake in money?
The EPA under the Obama admistration enabled this. I was surprised to learn this. It needs to change. I think trains need to change too.
Congratulations, the fossil fuel industry just put a hit on you
Small PHEV's would be ideal for the current generation. Battery advances will come, but we should always try to optimize with the current technology and 10 cars with a 10th the battery of a Tesla would be better for the future.
I do want to see more efficient, smaller EVs, but no one wants an EV that only gets 50 miles per charge. They aren't worth producing from the manufacturer's perspective.
My 2016 Nissan Leaf is 4400lbs, which is more than my larger (but still not that big) 2016 Mazda CX-5 at 3500lbs. Both manage to fit my family of 5, but the Leaf is far less accommodating and it weighs a good deal more. Small EVs are still pretty substantial. A Kia EV6 which is roughly the same size as my CX-5 weighs 5500lbs. You add a lot to a vehicle when you add an EV battery.
The article has a link to EVs by weight all but two of them were under the threshold.
Yeah but I'd like to visit my family and the nearest charging station is halfway across the state
If you are unable to find a charging station at some point halfway across the state you're either being too picky, or blind. I live in the middle of nowhere Maine and I can still find at least one electric vehicle charger per major town. Hell there is three of them in the town next over and it's not even considered one of our highly populated towns. I thought the same that you did until I actually looked up where charging stations are located I was pleasantly surprized
Without doxing myself, from my hometown the nearest charging station is 30 miles away, that's not end of the world far its definitely feasible but its not good enough. Especially when there's gas stations everywhere. Charging stations need to be in way more places outside cities before they become appealing to folks living outside built up areas.
Tldr most guard rails are designed to stop vehicles under 5000lbs. Passenger vehicles are starting to exceed that, and EVs can weight 30% more than ICE vehicles.
How about keeping the guard rails as they are and let the fat car drivers carry the risk?
Fat car can hit an innocent skinny car on the other side of the road, in case of an accident.
The problem is if they crash through the guard rail and kill or Injure others.
Yeah you say that now but when that article comes out about all those kids in a SUV dying you will be upset that the government cheapened out.
What about trying to reduce deaths?
That's 3175 kg for non-free folk. My car has around 1600 kg. 7k pound car is a fat fat cow.
People are saying "it's all the electric cars and batteries..."
Yeah my VW ID4 which is a pretty decent sized electric car is 2003kg. You are looking at giant electric SUVs or electric trucks to get over that 3175kg. Even the cybertruck is only 3k and that is just a giant chunk of steel and battery. They must be including hauling weight in that...
Swifts and Mirages can be under 900kg.
I prefer the term wildling.
It's the battery, and the support frame to carry the weight of the battery safely. Like it or not - cars are getting heavier.
It's a big fat fucking truck or luxury suv with a battery. A normal sized electric car is a thing too, you know. Electrics will always need to be heavier than ice of same size and model, but that doesn't mean it needs to weigh 3000kg. Car are growing heavier and bigger not just because of electrification, but because of growing fragile egos and growing fears in a vehicle arms race.
Just get an even bigger car, it will keep you safe from those.
Canyonero!
The country-fried truck endorsed by clowns!
Somehow I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!
I mean... kind of?
10 or 20 years ago? I would never have driven an SUV and thought anyone in one is stupid.
Five or six years ago? I needed a new car and ended up getting a "crossover" (so basically a hatchback on a lift kit). Still tiny compared to a lot of the cars on the road but a lot bigger than what I ever expected to drive.
Because in a sedan (like my rental a few months back)? My head is literally at bumper level for a LOT of the vehicles on the road. And now we have shit like the cybertruck where the bumper is a jagged metal wedge. I have a lot of faith in modern safety specs but that is still terrifying. In my small suv? I am still grill height for a lot of trucks but at least I am not weaving around monster trucks in a clown car.
Don't get me wrong. I very much enjoy the increased ground clearance and ability to haul an entire car worth of camping gear comfortably. But I also know that I am "never" going to go smaller. And... that is kind of the problem. People are dragged kicking and screaming because the alternative is to feel like you are going to die the next time someone decides they are going to ignore a red light.
I didn't realize until now, but I've been very fortunate to be able to take the bus to work recently, and the lack of fear of other vehicles on the road is probably a huge contributor to how much better I feel after the commute. I have that anxiety ever-present in the back of my mind while driving a sedan.
You seem ambivalent about the topic. I understand your arguments, but I don't agree with your solution. That doesn't need to bother you. We probably have very different requirements for transportation.
I live in an area where I don't need a car to get where I want to - bike, bus and train are sufficient. And I don't normally need to transport so much that I need a car. And if I need a car I get a rental for a short time.
Sometimes I shake my head a little in disbelief because I find the trend towards more individual transportation within large cars concerning. But then again my lifestyle isn't for everyone and who am I to judge? (But I'm entitled to my own opinion. ;)
Same here, drove hatchbacks and sedans until 5 years ago and now have a crossover. It was good for a bit but now these new pickups and SUV headlights are right in my face again. Thinking installing a suspension lift and larger profile tires in the future. I do not want to drive a giant rectangle and can carry extra cargo if needed on my roof rack or cargo basket.
Your comment reminds me of this:
Context:
haha brilliant
That's why I get everywhere by bus.
We just need to not have these big ass trucks for the general public. You don’t need a ford 350 with rims jacked up to show you have money. You are a pavement princess.
"But I need it for my work!"
You don't even have a toolbox on it. If it was an actual work truck, it would be a pickup with the bed replaced with one of those toolbox beds. Or you'd have a sprinter van like the actual plumbers and carpenters around here.
All those tiny penis trucks are so funny, there's never a single spot of mud or dirt inside the wheel wells, and they put mud tires on to drive around on pavement! It's like ........ hmmmmmmmmm what happened to your brain?
7000 Pounds is 3.2 Tons (metric)
3.2 Tons
geez, i wonder why these guardrails wouldn't work on a fucking Truck
This becomes a self-reinforcing cycle. If there are 7000lb passenger trucks on the highway around my compact car, I maybe start wanting to get a larger vehicle myself to protect myself from the idiots who drive them.
There has to be some sort of incentive either for smaller cars or against larger cars. Currently you can go into a dealer, tell them you want the biggest baddest truck/SUV that they have, and buy it all while having a normal license.
You'd only be paying a slight premium on whatever road or fuel tax if that while having the benefit of not getting destroyed in a car accident. As it stands, there is little reason to buy a larger vehicle unless you actually don't like driving a car that big.
Sort of.
It's either giant trucks, or Subarus.
My first car had a curb weight of 2400 lbs. It's absurd how fucking huge these planet-destroying, environment destroying, life destroying monstrosities have become.
Simple, if you buy a car that's too heavy for the existing infrastructure, you either pay for the improved infrastructure or take the risk yourself. The minivan that I drive the kids in is only 4,300 lb. If you're driving something heavier than that then, best of luck. I expect that if I'm driving a camper, and I fall off the road, I'm just done. Game over.
I don't expect infrastructure to adapt to the minority. That's not what it's for.
what about trucks? should these rails not work for big trucks? or are trucks a minority?
edit: trucks like the ones that transport goods not rednecks
Trucks are commercial vehicles. People driving commercial vehicles should be professionals and we should have required a commercial class c license for all light duty pickup trucks or SUVs. Anything that gets an emissions credit so they can have lower MPG for being a commercial vehicle should also be classed as a commercial vehicle for licensing purposes.
Trucks are driven by people that are supposed to be way better than the average driver. They also would need huge (and expensive) walls. At some point you have to compromise. It's not feasible to truck-proof the roads.
I don't think there's a way to make it work for both cases.
It's actually important that the rail gives in and deforms, as this reduces a cars energy much more quickly and safely than if it were rigid. Unfortunately this also makes them much less effective for larger vehicles.
In the end, it's a question of protecting as many people as well as possible.
At the moment I believe there are minority that's becoming a majority but I maintain that if they're the ones that require the infrastructure the payment for that infrastructure should be built into the cost of the vehicle or the licensure thereof.
But muh big truck
The only solution is a bigger truck.
We need to get rid of the commie laws requiring special licensing (CDL, Communist driver's license) for freedom trucks.
"The goliath-like GMC Hummer EV weighs a staggering 9,083 pounds, 2 tons more than a gas-guzzling H3."
I’m confused 'Murica, do you want freedom or not?
Okay this makes no sense. What about semi trucks or anything commercial? Did we decide decades ago that they can just fuck off and die?
Normal people have to read a booklet, memorize basic things, take a written test, take an eye test, and drive around the block. All can be done in the span of a day. License acquired, go drive whatever 9,000lb vehicle you want in the way you see fit.
Commercial vehicles require a commercial license to operate, which requires training and one at-fault accident may revoke their commercial license. Plus depending on the loads they carry they can be worth millions of tens of millions. That's why you don't typically see 53' flatbeds going 20 over the limit and weaving in and out of traffic. Sometimes it can get sketchy if they're close to their destination and it's a rush against their (electronically) mandated off-time, but also one speeding ticket can put their license at risk.
Do they get hazard pay?
Stupid post. 60,000 lb semi laughs.
Max weight load for commercial vehicles is actually 20k lbs more, at 80k total.
And the drivers are trained, and most of them do well most of the time.
But some companies run them like Amazon drivers... No matter what happens (brake problems, engine problems, stuck, accident traffic, etc you better get there by X time. That's not such a problem until drivers start driving through their mandatory sleep times to stay awake.
A bit before COVID they implemented an electronic tracker that reports any driving at all during mandated off-times (for sleep).
Before that you'd have truckers either fighting sleep, or, stimulants were a big thing at truck stops, right up there with lot lizards.
I had a girlfriend who's dad was a long-haul trucker. I've heard some seriously fucked and sad stories. Thankfully there have been new safety implementations
Seems like we need some regulation for maximum car weight to be. It's a safety thing now
Oooohh yeeeaaaahhhh!!!!
Seems like we need some regulation for maximum car weight to be. It's a safety thing now
Natural selection
Sounds only bad for people driving obese cars, which is good from my perspective.
EVs are significantly heavier than ICE cars. That’s why this is a problem. The Rivian R1S is over 8,000 lbs.
So long as your perspective isn’t on the other side of these whales, than yes.
What whales..?
There was an article attached the post. Take a look
Then what?
that thumbnail photo looks a lot like the guardrail on lifeguard road La Jolla farms Blacks Beach overlook switchback trail
Aka "Deadman's Curve".
Sounds like A Nice Morning Drive. As noted in the archived page above, that story inspired the song Red Barchetta by the band Rush.
If you want society to rely less on cars stop subsidizing roads.
Incredibly train-pilled. Clickety-clack, brother
bruh
Yeah! Everyone should have to pay full price for their roads or build their own!
…and yet I don’t feel even a bit sad. What could this mean ?
You're a psychopath?
I say we change nothing and let evolution do her thing
You mean protect those inside the 7+ ton vehicles and to hell with anyone else?
If you haven't read sir Darwin as of late, I think you should consider another look.
Apparently the author (and some of you as well) haven't heard about 80,000lb tractor trailers...
You mean those commercial vehicles that need a different licence?
Pretty sure those safety barriers were designed with personal vehicles in mind (+ safety margin). A truck would’ve blasted through them anyway, whether it be now, or 30 years ago.
What a load of shit. Pretty sure roads are already used by many vehicles of Greater mass than 7000lbs. Trucks. Buses. Coaches.
18 wheelers and other heavy vehicles are definitely not going to be stopped by a guardrail. They also disintegrate any small passenger vehicle they come in contact with at any significant speed. I'm not sure how pointing out that they are dangerous is a load of shit.
Additionally, heavy vehicles cause upwards of 80% of road wear, which means we are subsidizing private transport companies by not forcing them to fund a proportional amount of road maintenance.
Additionally, heavy vehicles cause upwards of 80% of road wear, which means we are subsidizing private transport companies by not forcing them to fund a proportional amount of road maintenance.
They do. There are additional fee's and fuel surcharges that states make transport companies pay for road upkeep.
But not with nearly every vehicle being one of them and operated by people with CDLs that understand a lot of the safety features of the road aren't going to work for them.
Not to mention that the 7,000 pound EV can do 0-60 in waaaay less time than a big truck.
Mentions skidding on ice in first paragraph. No amount of training can reverse the laws of friction.
Thing is, I agree and think normal consumer passenger cars are getting far too heavy. Like people.
