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is telling your employer you may leave if passive aggressive coworkers don't stop gossiping about you behind your back and gaslighting you a good idea?

I always thought of it like this: if a workplace makes you feel devalued or is toxic (gaslighting and ranting about you behind your back), you quietly find new pastures.

Now, however, I think this is the wrong approach: why do I have to accept they bully me? I should defend myself. And doesn't the manager have to make sure a workplace ain't toxic? Instead of quietly looking for a new job next time this happens, wouldn't it be better to confront, document and escalate instead of letting it go? even if HR only exists to protect the company and not me.

If HR and manager do nothing to address the problem, wouldn't it be a better strategy to start working the least possible and let the company fire me, while looking for another job?

50 comments
  • Unless they need you more than you need them, announcing your intent to leave "unless..." puts you in a more difficult negotiating position because you have signaled you have other options that, perhaps more challenging for you, are an easier solution than them having to fix it for you. HR isn't your friend.

    Practically and more directly, if you can be easily replaced then your workplace issues are yours. If you are difficult or expensive to replace, your workplace issues are theirs.

    • Take it from experience @vestmoria@linux.community this advice is true. Going to HR means that they're going to take action on the one causing the most noise, and when you go to them at that moment, that's you. That may sound discouraging, but that's what it is. Something like gossip is something HR will be willing to ignore. By going to them you are creating the most noise so it will only adversely affect you.

      It doesn't matter if you're right. It doesn't matter if you're a great employee. You are officially making negative noise, that's a liability for the company. They'll smooth you over, tell you there's a plan, but it's officially on record that you'll speak up while others quietly work, and in the corporate world that's a black mark.

      Take it from me, just silently start looking for new work. Right now you have all the time in the world, search around, be picky, get something better. Leave them behind you. That's the only real way to propel your career forward.

  • Like others have said (or hinted at), never make an ultimatum you are unwilling or unable to follow through on.

    And saying you'll leave "unless x happens" is just such an ultimatum.

  • I have only ever worked in germany so thats all I can talk about from a legal perspective (not a lawyer):

    If people bully you and you can find evidence for it, the colleagues, maybe your manager and the whole company can be shit out of luck and you win. A lot of folks have successfully sued (which is very cheap in germany, you dont even need a lawyer at first) for β€žmobbingβ€œ (bullying essentially).

    If one or more colleagues bully you, you collect evidence, confront your manager. They then have reason to terminate the offender if the evidence is strong.

    If the manager doesnt act, you have reason to sue and get considerable sums out of the company.

    But yes, if people go behind your back and oust you, they are in the wrong. Even if you did wrong, they should talk to you about it or involve management. Social ousting is never an acceptable reaction imo.

  • If HR and manager do nothing to address the problem, wouldn’t it be a better strategy to start working the least possible and let the company fire me, while looking for another job?

    Doing your job and looking for another job is the best course of action if they don't do anything about issues involving other coworkers. If they don't care enough to do anything when it is reported, they are not going to do anything if you give an ultimatum other than making your job miserable enough that you quit or fire you, whichever costs them less.

    Don't under perform in a way that gets you fired though, as that could jeopardize any money you get from being fired like unemployment or whatever you have in your location.

  • I think doing a good analysis of strategy here will depend on a lot of factors.

    Firstly, before coming up with a strategy, it is good to have a clear idea of your goals / the strategic problem you are trying to solve. I see or could infer a few possible ones: you want to work in an environment where you don't feel bullied, you want to ensure others aren't bullied, you want to see bullies punished, to maintain positives in the company and want to enjoy those without the negatives of being bullied, or perhaps that you believe in the goals of the company or have some stake in it, and want it to succeed. Different goals might lead you to a different course of action.

    Next, you would want to diagnose what's really going on. Are there just a few bullies, in a company mostly full of professional people, or are the bullies the majority? Are senior leaders in on the bullying, or is it only lower level employees? Why do you think the bullies were hired in the first place - is it because bullying is considered okay in the company, or is it not considered okay but they slipped through? Why do you think the bullying hasn't been addressed already? Is it because senior managers don't know? Are the bullies friends / relatives of senior leadership? Are the bullies high performers that the company really would want to keep around, or do they get barely get anything done? Also, are the bullies even aware they are being bullies? Are they unaware they are being insensitive, and likely to change if made aware, or are they actively being malicious and well aware of the impact?

    Next, consider the direction you want to take, and analyse the likely impact on your goals. You could find another job - how easy that is would depend what the job market looks like for your role, and how good the terms of your current job are. It wouldn't achieve goals around making it better for others. You could try talking to the bullies if you think that they might just be unaware of the impact of their behaviour and that they might change. If that doesn't work, you could try talking to a manager / HR member, perhaps either to arrange mediation, or for them to take action. You could also just try ignoring the bullying if it isn't having much impact.

    To choose from the many possible directions, it might help to think from the perspective of the company shareholders, senior leadership, and HR department. What would you do in their shoes if you learned of the bullying? If it is the majority of the company doing the bullying, then something like replacing all the bullying staff is going to be an instant non-starter. The best possible would be to slowly roll out training, policies, and new hiring practices to try to improve the culture over time. If it is a few people who, it now turns out, are the reason for high staff turnover and lower profits, then they might be quite happy to take action. Although probably not if the bullies are the senior leaders.

  • Idea is good, in principal. Can I just offer some thoughts to get things happening smoothly.

    Bullying, what type? I can only offer general overall advice without specifics. So I'll offer some food for thought, What if that person is neurodivergent and doesn't understand they're bullying, or coming across too blunt. I would suggest, address the behaviour directly, succinctly and without judgement.

    Talk as if they're an alien and don't understand our culture, and you have belief once they understand they will step up. But say it as plainly, in the least amount of words possible. Don't leave room to debate, just straight plain facts. This causes this. Please don't.

    Ask how you can help them be more effective in positive engagement.

    On a personal note it's always a good idea to listen to the messages your body is giving you, those emotions are a need your body has, it isn't about anyone else, it's about your lived experience and how comfortable you are in your environment. Times you haven't felt safe can be a trigger for you in the future, and then bullies words hurt more. If you feel you have unhealed trauma or a low sense of self and self worth because the world in general has chewed you up, (which it does so often it's almost a universal experience) find and build on yourself in those areas. It doesn't minimise that the bullies are harmful, just utilise their efforts to find places you can up skill and heal, if they are being highlighted for you. They still suck. You just take what they give you and turn it into a tool to build on yourself and build yourself up. Be genuine, curious and open and deep dive on your feelings. Eventually, after studying what's freely available out there and uplevelling your sense of self, you start to see all of the bullies behaviours are entirely about their own broken insides and damage. It's really hard to be upset by words from someone you pity.

    Avoiding toxic environments is a better way to live. Finding ways to make that environment non toxic is a good life philosophy. Do your labour laws already have protections built in to protect you from psychological abusive type behaviours in the workplace?

50 comments