Time: Ukraine Can't Win the War

Could a told you that 2 years ago when Boris Johnson sabotaged the peace talks so his masters in DC could benefit from Russia remaining at war.

EDIT: I guess I don't understand completely Lemmy, because some lib is calling me a Russian troll under this comment and I can't see it unless I go to the original/non-hexbear post.

Unfortunately many stances cowardly defederate from hexbear, so you can’t see their comments.
- Oh yeah, I knew about that part but I think I assumed the defederation would stop all visibility in both directions, and I guess they can see us but are hiding from us, like, as you say, cowards.
The staggering scale of devastation that ensued when the West shut down diplomatic talks between Russia and Ukraine in March 2022 is truly mind-boggling. Thousands perished, countless others were injured or disfigured, while millions more had their futures irrevocably altered by this turn of events. This atrocious act ranks as one of the more egregious crimes against humanity in recent history.
I guess I don't understand completely Lemmy, because some lib is calling me a Russian troll under this comment and I can't see it unless I go to the original/non-hexbear post

I think that was common on Reddit, too.

It usually means they replied and blocked you, or deleted their comment later. (Or it got deleted by a mod)

It's people who have the mentality that the last word wins the argument, especially since anyone else who reads the comment chain would think you had nothing to say in response.
Just for a little bit of nuance, and I don’t tend to see eye to eye with .Hexbesr users but I swear I’m not here just to fight, but, as far as I’m aware, Zelensky can’t negotiate peace if there’s a concession of land. It’s in their government somewhere. He’d need the Ukrainian people to vote for and pass such a thing. Which, I don’t see happening. So perpetual war is what we get for a while I guess. Lovely.
- I would love to see a source for this. Even if this is true, it's probably possible to circumvent regulations like this during war time. If elections can be suspended, opposition political parties can be banned then this is like possible as well.
This isn't Xitter. No need to spread Russian propaganda here.

There were no peace talks that would ever be acceptable for Ukraina.
- The difference is that Ukraine would have been forced to accept something because they were going to lose sooner. So instead they had tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians, and get a worse deal. Thanks NATO!
- This isn't reddit, no need to spread NAFO propaganda here.
  
  There won't be an Ukraina left to do peace talks if things keep going the way they are.
- There were no peace talks that would ever be acceptable for Ukraina.
  
  Not true.

It is not that surprising, Arabic media has been reporting it for a while. It is just that corporate media in the West is finally catching up to reality.

We're basically seeing a narrative collapse happening in real time.
Arabic, Latin American, Southeast Asian, Chinese (obviously), Indian (obviously)...

Wait, isn't this the same map of countries which recognize Palestine?
- The true international community

Times magazine is a stalinist rag that's doing Putin's bidding by publicly undermining the war effort against the Soviet Union!

Don't believe me? Look who times celebrated as person of the year back in 1943 when the OG Dictator was conqueroring Ukraine to steal it from the heroes that liberated it and genocide the ukrainian freedom fighters!

Still seeing communist ghosts everywhere, are we? Come on...
- They're doing a bit lol
  
  But yeah I'm sure some of those upvotes are from libs genuinely taking it seriously. Poe's law and all that.
- Whooshed

The Biden Administration’s strategy is now to sustain Ukrainian defense until after the U.S. presidential elections

An interesting admission here. I think this is true, though the real reason has nothing to do with helping Ukraine -- it's about avoiding a political disaster for the Democrats.

Indeed, it seems that US mainstream media has pretty much abandoned the whole helping Ukraine narrative. Now they're admitting that the goal is to cynically force Ukrainians to fight until the election, and then throw them under the bus after.

If only someone had warned them

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think most people never thought Ukraine would win the war outright. Personally, I've never heard anyone say that they thought Ukraine would push Russia out entirely and the war would end. Even if Ukraine did secure all of its land, Russia would almost certainly continue fighting along the border to prevent it from joining any alliance like NATO. It seemed the best anyone hoped for is that there would be enough pressure applied to Russia that something changed within where they gave up on the war.

People, and importantly western leadership, absolutely thought they could force a regime change in Russia when the war started. For example, recall all the whole rouble will be rubble talk. The plan was for the west to isolate Russia economically using sanctions and intimidate other countries to stop trading with Russia. Russian economy was supposed to collapse as a result, and people were gonna overthrow the government.

This is why Europe went all in on the whole thing, they thought they’re gonna ride it out for a few months and then the west would get to put in a compliant regime in Russia like they did in Ukraine. After that, everything would get back to business as usual, and the regime would start selling off Russia to western companies the way Ukraine is currently being sold off.

Of course that’s not how it went, and now we're seeing a narrative shift because it's becoming clear that the west failed to break Russia economically. Not only that, but Russia is emerging more assertive and has the backing of the Global South. This is the worst possible outcome for the west, and Europe in particular.
- Maybe I'm not doing the best at explaining myself, but my intent was for my comment to say much the same as yours (which I totally agree with). I was just trying to say that I didn't hear many people who thought Ukraine could actually win a war against Russia through fighting. There was definitely hope that Russia would have a regime change due to the pressure and that would put an end to the war, but that outcome seems more like Russia just ending fighting rather than Ukraine winning. I suppose my comment was moreso just arguing semantics on the word "win" in terms of this conflict, which is ultimately a bit pointless.
- Yes, I remember people talking about how Ukraine was "systematically destroying" the Russian army at Bakhmut, and how it was a meatgrinder from which Russia would never recover -- in fact the opposite was true. Then (because Prigozhin) everyone was talking about corruption in the Russian military, how Putin's hold on power was extremely fragile, etc. etc., and saying with utmost confidence that the Summer Counteroffensive (lol) would absolutely collapse that whole house of cards; Ukraine would reconquer Crimea, there would be regime change in Russia, President Navalny would oversee the "total decolonization" of Siberia (also lol). None of that happened either. Plus throughout it all, we were consistently told that if we would just give Ukraine Leopards, Abrams, F-16s, HIMARS, Javelins, Patriot systems, Challengers, cluster bombs, horcruxes, baatleths, sticks and stones, and of course more of that sweet, sweet US taxpayer money, those plucky Ukrainian would beat the Russians in no time whatsoever. Western governments absolutely thought Ukraine could win, and some of the (particularly Britain) are still clinging to that illusion.
- I agree with everything, except the fact that the outcome is bad for Europe. Would be much worse had western governments reached their goals.

If Russia comes out of this conflict with any gains at all that could be construed as "worth it" for their side it will be an open invitation to keep invasions on the table as a method to apply again in the near future.

What a moronic take. As though whether or not Russia decides to take all of Europe is based on this one border conflict
Russia is literally the biggest country in the world with massive natural resources and very low population density. The idea that Russia will sacrifice its relatively small population for the sake of additional territorial gains is preposterous.
- They're literally doing that right now, though
So if the author's opinion is correct, then that would not be a good outcome. Do you think they're wrong?

The Republican cowards denying aid needed by Ukraine are entirely to blame.

Sure, blame the Republicans and not the Democrats wasting all their munitions on a middle east genocide.
I am not a republican, but sending aid to Ukraine so that more Ukrainians die, is something we shouldnt be doing.
- So much ruzzia love here. Bad propaganda account.
- That's defeatist bullshit that's only serving the interests of the thug responsible for Russian aggression.
If you bothered reading the article before making your vapid comments, then you'd see that the aid that republicans are holding up isn't going to change anything:

The Biden Administration is entirely correct to warn that without further massive U.S. military aid, Ukrainian resistance is likely to collapse this year. But U.S. officials also need to recognize that even if this aid continues, there is no realistic chance of total Ukrainian victory next year, or the year after that. Even if the Ukrainians can build up their forces, Russia can deepen its defenses even more.
- It seems your reading comprehension is pretty poor: the article doesn't say that Ukraine can't win ever, regardless.
  
  It says that they can't win a total victory this year or next year, even with further aid.
Yeah, no. I'm from the states, and these Ukronazi losers can fuck off and pay their own bills. The same goes for Taiwan, Israel, and whatever other meme countries our government and ruling class -- the real traitors -- are supporting. Americans have their own bills to pay.