So anyway, I'm radicalized, rule

And if there’s a bug in that code, you’re fucked.

Safety features should work if everything else fails. Their failure mode can’t be “fuck it, it didn’t work”. Which is directly opposite to the failure mode of a subscription based service.

The problem is the subscription, not how it was implemented

First law of robotics:

Money up front.

Imagine you are in an accident and the server go off and you get killed while paying for that?

IMO, for a safety system, anything sitting between the device's sensors (to say it's time to deploy the safety system, regardless of what it is), and the actual deployment of that safety system, is too many things sitting between those systems. There's should always be a direct and uninterrupted connection from the safety deployment sensors and the safety deployment system. Nothing in between so the delay in deployment is as close to zero as possible, with no complications that could, in any way, shape, or form, delay or otherwise interrupt the connection between those two systems.

I really wonder what the mechanism for this license model is, I'm sure their engineers are intelligent and there's no obvious issues, but say, for example, the sensors that trigger the airbag and the airbags deployment trigger, has something like a relay in between. The relay is controlled by a management computing device that has verified the license and so it closes the relay (so everything works). Say, for example, during a crash, one of the first things that happens is that you're struck with debris, and in that debris is a very small, very powerful magnet. It happens to land, right where that relay sits, and because of where it impacts, it causes the relay to open... Disabling the airbag. You get wrecked because you were hit with a magnet.

I'm sure that is not realistic and they're not using a magnetic based relay for something like this, but I think it demonstrates the point. Anything sitting between (detect) and (deploy) is a risk to life and limb. That includes, but is not limited to, lines of code, relays, disconnects, computers, electronic lockouts, switches, and buttons. Even significant lengths of wire, more than a few inches could be a problem due to induced current or the risk of them being pulled and/or broken. Ideally, the system for detecting that it should deploy and the deployment mechanisms trigger should be in the same, protected box or chassis on the vest, with nothing in-between to inhibit the signal. IMO, the only good way to do this kind of lockout is to control the arming/disarming of the system, where when the system arms (and therefore ready to be used and secure the life and limb of the user), it checks for the presence of a license, first locally (with a license that has been cached that informs when the subscription is set up expire, if that expiry is after now, then arm), and failing that (expiry is before now), check for a license via a link through the app to the web and/or service provider. Providing useful feedback to the user about the system and whether it has armed correctly and therefore ready to deploy.

Have they done it this way? I don't know. I don't trust that they have. I'd rather pay more for a safety system and not have it require a subscription than pay monthly to use the system and potentially have it fail a fucking license check when I need it the most. Bluntly, I don't trust them to get this right. So fuck this, fuck them, and fuck anyone who supports this with their money. Any company putting a financial condition on the safety of your life isn't a company that should continue to operate.

All of this is to say nothing of: what happens if the license servers fail? Can't check in for a new license at renewal time because the servers are fucked.... Well, good luck in that crash you're about to have. 🖕

Fucking idiotic to trust a subscription model with your life.

Financing can have a higher interest. It is not this easy, but also not too hard.

That dude annoys me so much, but his content is usually pretty good. Great points on the different air bag systems.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Here's a great vid on airbags for motorcycles

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

It is like Star Trek, but we're the Ferengi.

Be the change you want to see in the dark.

Thanks for the context but

I feel like price for the one time purchase is set deliberately high because they want people to actually pay for the subscription instead. If their goal really was to make their products more accessible, just allow people to pay in installments and take some recurring interest fees for the financing.

And, in any case, the product should work no matter whether I'm late with the monthly fee or not. That's just bullshit.

the option of a subscription is fine IMO

That is bullshit. If they want to lower the price by renting it out, they could perfectly well licencese local dealers to rent it out, who can go after the customer in the same way, like they could for people who rented vehicles and didnt pay/return them.

The subscription based model instead proves that the production costs cannot be that high, that in case of a run out subscription, they'd rather lose the product.

Also the development costs of the subscription and the technical equipment to validate subscriptions, including running the servers etc. are a significant cost factor, without which they could lower the price of the product.

Why would you want computerized airbags? I don't trust the software to not have bugs

It's argue it still shouldn't even be a "subscription". A payment plan would be a simpler and more safety-conscious implementation. If the buyer fails to keep up with required payments, then you're focused on collections, not disabling functionality.

The seller could even just not offer payment plans, because plenty of other third parties already specialize in personal loans. They're just reinventing a stupider wheel.

What is important to remember is that subscription doesn't save you money, it delays payment.

Subsceiptions do NOT make things cheaper, they only lower barrier to entry and then allow to drain you even for the cash you don't have. Similar to how credits changed the world, but way more sinister.

Nooo don't bring logic and reasoning here. I've got preconceived notions to feel smug about.

It's a subscription service for an airbag vest. They'd rather have you die than not pay for a product you already purchased. I'd say that whether or not there's a mechanical failure, the billing department does want to kill poor people.

Limited liability. Negotiate with the family of the victim, ideally don't pay at all if you can get away with it, and move on. Product management and marketing had a great idea to increase user retention, more in the meeting at 11.

I'm pretty sure that "motorcycle airbag vest" is not considered a standard piece of safety equipment by law

It certainly should.

I mean, more expensive cars have more safety features. You pay to be safer.

Sure we'll just have to remove those useless bits of flesh and bone you have at the moment and then you pay $23.84 per km travelled on your fantastic new stealth legs.

Boston Dynamics is cool and all, but I don't want their legs.

More like kil'm, amirite?

I have no idea how it's designed, but it should put a credential on your phone which it can check via Bluetooth. That credential would presumably have an expiration date and the app should only need to validate it once when the status changes.

I'd guess the airbag doesn't go off.

This is 100% speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it checks the length of the subscription when connected to a network, then tracks that with a built in clock. There's also incentive to frequently connect it to a network since the company constantly "updates the algorithm" it uses to detect crashes and deploy.

I suspect it would stop working once you hit the end of whatever period it knows you're "paid up" for.

So if I'm reading this right, you buy the air vest, and then either buy or rent a gizmo that tells it when to inflate

I would be surprised if you couldn't just bypass the brain box and wire it to be always on. The heated seat subscription worked the same way.

This isn't a required safety device

My mother, an asthmatic, jokes that Air is already a subscription service 🙂

Scuba diving equipment! Sorry you used your allocated oxygen, swipe your credit card to renew the subscription.

I just checked the site, it says the subscription includes a new detection module every three years. So at least some new gear is included.

Subscription for a product like this definitely feel very shady. But at least you can just straight up buy it. They say the subscription is intended for people who can't afford the full price out of pocket.

They are reusable, they use replaceable argon cannisters, those cannisters cost 130bucks a pop though.

My t9p of mid-range baby car seats that I BOUGHT (ie. No subscription) come with a replacement agreement that each accident the seat is involved in above a certain threshold, they will replace the car seat for free as they are not safe to operate again after a crash -would need to check the manual in the car for deets, obviously not for a fender bender.

As many times as accidents could happen in the life time of the car seat, probably 8 years or so. For free. Which I think it's smart as it gives them great pr in general, and it helps keeping their brand out of the news in case of a damaged item gets involved in a second crash and someone gets hurt.

I am sure they factored the cost of replacements into the seat price based on statistics, to me it tells you don't need to be a soulless piece of shit to make a good and reliable business model without being a dick.

Which safety regs? I mean, specifically.

.... Or move somewhere with universal healthcare...

When I was broke the only motor vehicle I owned was a motorcycle -- it was significantly cheaper than a car.

If you can't afford healthcare you likely can't afford a car either.

It is outrageous because if a sufficient number of people accept this bullshit, it becomes a viable and profitable business model and every provider moves into it. Basically people like me who run away from subscriptions like the devil end up without a choice.

Might be tricky because airbags are single-use. How do you know that your hack worked? If you test it to confirm you lost the air bag, so you'd have to buy at least two, make sure you did the exact same modification on the second one after confirming it worked on the first, and still be unsure if it's actually going to go off when it matters.

Just don't buy it.

Or just buy one of the other vests that use a simple tether and doesn't require a stupid fucking subscription and a additional, complex point of failure?

This is exactly my train of thought.

Uh, that's not really the point? If you're making a product that aims to promote safety and save lives, then you shouldn't be able to cancel it at the will of the company. It would be like waking up in the middle of a surgery and the doctor telling you "Hey, looks like your anesthesia subscription expired, so unless you've got an extra $20 in your pocket right now, then we're just going in raw." If you absolutely NEED the extra money as part of your business model or whatever, then just charge them AFTER the service is used. Don't just fucking turn the airbag off with no warning because they're behind on a payment

Marketing safety equipment subscriptions specifically to people who can't afford to buy that equipment outright, and then disabling it when they fail to make a payment (because you're specifically targeting the demographic most likely to miss payments) is a great way to kill poor people, and this individual business should absolutely get the shit they get for doing it