11mo ago

Ubisoft Exec Says Gamers Need to Get 'Comfortable' Not Owning Their Games for Subscriptions to Take Off

www.ign.com Ubisoft Exec Says Gamers Need to Get 'Comfortable' Not Owning Their Games for Subscriptions to Take Off - IGN

An executive at Assassin’s Creed maker Ubisoft has said gamers will need to get “comfortable” not owning their games before video game subscriptions truly take off.

Ubisoft Exec Says Gamers Need to Get 'Comfortable' Not Owning Their Games for Subscriptions to Take Off::An executive at Assassin’s Creed maker Ubisoft has said gamers will need to get “comfortable” not owning their games before video game subscriptions truly take off.

230 comments

I'm comfortable not owning Ubisoft games. ;)
- These people are like an adversarial neural network being trained to find the most efficient ways to piss of their own customer base.
  I think it's important to note that the entertainment landscape as a whole has been changing, and those changes have mixed with the shitty investor culture that already existed to create a terrible set of incentives that are wildly misaligned with consumer sentiment. I say this because I think that if we want things to change, we need to look at root causes.
  The entertainment industry is feeling very threatened. It's hard to make money. That's a reality. And all the solutions to the problem are fucked up attempts to find ways to get players to give more money for things they don't want.
  I think we need a better patronage model.
  
  A quality game for a good price that provides hours of entertainment is a good start.
  
  I don't find it hard to believe that the cost of making AAA games no longer matches the standard game price nowadays, because the typical $60 price hasn't changed in at least 20 years. Publishers have used a lot of alternatives to recoup that like launch day DLC, deluxe editions, and microtransactions.
  I honestly don't mind deluxe editions with cosmetics for that reason, if someone wants to pay $100 for some extra outfits that's probably the ideal scenario for everyone.
  But I agree that Ubisoft's insane DRM practices and subscriptions aren't the right solution to that problem.
  
  These people are like an adversarial neural network being trained to find the most efficient ways to piss of their own customer base.
  I think we forget how removed these people are from reality.
- Ever since they started the Epic/Uplay exclusivity stuff, it's made it easier than ever to avoid buying their games.
  
  If it’s not on Steam it doesn’t exist
- possessing a copy of them, sure. ownership is a legal construct that doesn't really matter that much to me.
  
  If buying something doesn't mean you own it, then pirating something doesn't mean you stole it! As long as there is a subscription fee, take the justifiable torrent option to choose to pay ZERO. The only way is not to pay!

Remember kids, if buying isn't owning, piracy isn't theft.
- I like this guy!
- And if corporations decide they can charge a fee when we DON'T play, then we can decide to NOT pay when we play! The only way to make them feel their greed is to wave the ol' Jolly Roger!
- I’ve seen this saying going around and while I do like it, something about it bugs me. These corpos want to treat everything as a service. If you acquire content from a service via illegal means you are indeed still stealing, no?
  
  You're either selling a service or a product, you don't get to lay claim to both, and you don't get to walk with peoples money by using linguistic tricks
  
  What content are you acquiring from their service if you get it somewhere else? If what they're selling is service, not content, then getting the content elsewhere doesn't affect them, right?
  
  No: I didn't take it from them since they never owned my copy. The Supreme Court said piracy isn't stealing. The corporations lose NOTHING through piracy.

Gamers says CEOs need to get comfortable not having a subscription model for their sales to take off.
- We’re lucky that Ubisoft doesn’t make any good games.
  
  R* and T2 rubbing their hands...
  
  Actually I think Ubisoft unfortunately has some bangers in its back catalog.
  Steep is by far and away the best backcountry skiing/snowboarding simulator (shreddders is better in the mechanics of snowboarding, but steep is better at being a giant winter playground).
  Ghost Recon Wildlands looks awesome especially with the first person mod (though I would probably find the politics of the game insufferable)
  Both these games are extremely detailed games, with massive open worlds and are generally fairly critically acclaimed at least at this point (not sure about release). These games sell for chump change now though. Steep regularly goes for $3 which is insane when you think about the fact that there isn’t a Steep 2 nor really any rivals other than Shredders (Riders Republic just isn’t focused on winter sports). Ghost Recon Wildlands sells for $7 which I guess is fair but still seems like underselling the game.
  My point is that Ubisoft being attached to games actually reduces their value by quite a bit. If Steep had been made by an indie studio it would still be selling at $10 or more, it is a stunningly big game and nothing else comes close.
  Oh yeah and Riders Republic, the game Ubisoft is/was trying to draw in a bunch of more casual players into a unified multiplayer sports game, has apparently really fun gameplay (though arcade-y for sure) but has a 45 MINUTE NON-OPTIONAL TUTORIAL YOU CAN’T SKIP. For a casual, multiplayer open world sports game….
  It is hilarious how much value Ubisoft destroys in just being associated with products. They are the opposite of a business, they take valuable things and destroy their value to consumers. Some of the games they make could easily sell for premium prices way into the future but Ubisoft undermines the value of their games so much that they end up trying to sell these massive games, with huge open worlds carefully made through countless hours for chump change because everybody hates Ubisoft.
  edit I forgot about Anno 1800, a momentously big city building game that is extremely critically acclaimed already being sold on sale for $12, that shit is bonkers. Any other dev and that game would never have to come below $20 until there was a sequel.

Nope. We refuse. But fuck you for asking.
- I don't know. A lot of people seem willing to pay for battle passes, which is already halfway there.
  It was good to see a little bit of resistance this year and particularly the success of BG3, but I'm concerned that the overall trend is negative. Any publisher beholden to investors will be under strong pressure to monetize, monetize, monetize.
  All I can do is not give them money, but someone else probably will.
  
  Yeah, people in this thread are saying this is absurd and nobody will go along with it, like have they met gamers from outside Lemmy?
  In the wider world, people think I'm insane for not loving Microsoft's game subscription service. Even here and on Reddit I've received flak for not wanting games as a subscription service. It's weird.
  Game subscriptions will happen. The wider market, unfortunately, loves the idea of paying a monthly fee to play games.

I’d rather quit gaming. Fuck Ubisoft and their predatory practices.
- honestly, i have plenty of games. im good if they stop now.
  im ok with this game of chicken
  
  Skyrim 4 Life
  
  I still have a lot of Kaizo levels to beat.
  All of them. I suck.
- Indie gaming is only getting better and better - unity self-immolating has slowed the tide a bit, but random individuals now have access to tools on par with professionals
  Plus AAA games are compulsively running with lower and lower staff, putting more and more effort into micro transaction content, and pushing the game less and less finished. It makes indie games and standout hits feel better by contrast
- Why quit gaming? Enjoy it for free on the mighty sea!

As long as they get comfortable with the idea of if buying isn't owning then piracy isn't stealing.
- Hehehe, this is my quote.
  I'm the YouTube commenter in this screenshot: https://lemmy.world/post/1098344
- Sounds logical but governments still seem to care to protect corporate IP while they don't give a single fuck about customer ownership rights.
  
  yeah I know what Im saying is a pipe dream because Im not my government's actual constituency but a man can dream.

Director of Subscriptions
“Ubisoft director of paying them money every month says gamers should pay them money every month”

Maybe I am just an old nostalgic fart but I have games that I own that are over 30 years old that I still have access to and regularly play and that's how I like it.
I personally don't at all see any benefit to the consumer that subscription based gaming provides. Arguably you can access more games for less money, but if video streaming is anything to go by (increased prices, less content across more and more services, ads creeping back in etc), that value proposition won't last long.
- The benefits are not meant for the consumer.
  
  We even have the current streaming services as examples, that's why Ubisoft are greedy for getting people to subscribe.
  Game streaming services will eventually be:
  Fragmented: You will need to have multiple subscriptions to play the games you want.
  Games will disappear without notice (We already see this on app-stores).
  Prices will be jacked up at a whim, and premium tier plans will be added.
  And as the pièce de résistance: Full of ads.

I dunno man, I get a pretty solid sense of pride and accomplishment after pirating a thing, so I think I’ll stick with that.
- The hard work of crackers is admirable, they are the unsung heroes! Take from the rich and give to the poor!

i'm so excited for the fucking subscription fad to die. people have gotta get sick of it at some point right? what could be enticing enough to replace it for both corps and users?
- It won't. Normies just see their franchise like Assasins or any Tom Clancy's and they buy. It does not matter to them what bullshit payment model it is. Look at Fifa games for example. Litearaly the same game year after year with the tiniest adjustments possible but they still break a sales record on a almost yearly basis.
- Hopefully, streaming services fail and gaming companies see the writing on the wall. If not, buckle up for bullshit.
  
  I'm swashbuckled up for the incoming bullshit 🏴‍☠️
- It's not a fad, it's just the tail-end of unregulated capitalism. They will sacrifice everything anybody cares about to squeeze just a little bit more profit out of everything. Blood from a stone...

I am quite comfortable with not owning any ubisoft games. It's a kind of comfort that comes easily when one doesn't pay ubisoft any money for anything.
- After the bore fest which was division, which I pre-ordered, I finally uninstalled Ubisoft launcher, the name of which is can't be bothered to recall. Someone gave me a free game code for division 2, I still could not bother to reinstall the unnamed launcher.
  
  I bought the Division 2 for like $3 USD and I still felt like it wasn't worth it
- Even better: enjoy their games but don't give them a nickel!

Their reasoning is that consumers have gotten used to it in other media forms like music and video.
It doesn't make it right.
The hell we have.
- Lol. I started pirating again because of this shit. We don't have to get used to anything. Give us the product we want or we will get it anyway but without the part where you get paid.
- Honestly I love it. I don't typically rewatch things often enough to justify the price they charge to purchase a copy, and I have a shitload of stuff at my fingertips with streaming services.
  With music it's a little different by because I do re-listen a lot, but streaming lets me just listen to music I might like instead of relying on reviews to guess what might be worth buying. I listen to way more different things than I would if I had to buy it all.
- Most people have gotten used to it with music, so far anyway. As long as most of what they want to listen to is available through a single service, and the price isn't prohibitive, most people I've talked to seem to be okay with streaming music.
  Streaming video is a fucking dumpster fire that no one wants. All the streaming services fought to get the biggest catalog for the cheapest price than folded over on themselves like somebody turning the switch off on a flailing tube man. Now the prices are all cable level and the catalogs are all crap.
  There was an old quest communications commercial back in the day. Guy rolled up in a old car to a motel in the middle of nowhere. Ask the guy at the desk where they had on TV, He responded back everything ever made. That's what I'm expecting to see from streaming video now. It's all sitting around, it's all available. For the price of cable we should be able to afford everything over 6 months old that was ever made.

Screw these guys.
Why can’t they release the server code or whatever so the community can keep playing the games. I’ve got a bunch of games that I can no longer play because there’s no servers. There was a community attempt at putting something together, they were working from scratch, but it seems to have failed.
The devs won’t support it, but they won’t let anyone play with the abandonware either. Took their ball and went home.
- It seems they've explained exactly why they won't (not can't, but won't) release the server code: They need you to not own your games in order to sell you subscriptions.
  Having access to the source so you can maintain a thing is a much more profound kind of ownership than simply having access to a copy. If they let you have that, you might get ideas in your head about not giving them money forever, and they can't have that.

Solution for greedy company
- Money is all they can understand! To the high seas!

ubisoft should get comfortable with people just not buying their crap at all.

I'd rather remain comfortable not buying games from Ubisoft and EA.
I refuse to waste a single dollar on every game from both companies, since we were all bent over and continue to get bent over because they just don't care about anything but making more money.
A good example from Ubisoft is the handling of the Driver series. They kept on releasing the games in the series in a near unplayable state before when most people had dial up.
A good example with EA was the failed DRM with Spore. They only let you install the game 3 times, which glitched out to the point where people had to turn to piracy (warez and crackz) to play a game they paid for.
We vote with every dollar spent, which gives me hope when people rally around good companies that do the right thing.

gamers will need to get “comfortable” not owning their games before video game subscriptions truly take off.
So subscriptions won't take off if we demand to own what we buy? I accept those terms.
If it ain't a sale, it's not piracy.

I like how in this article the greedy cunt is talking about consumers just getting used to the idea of not owning the game being okay because they'll keep their progress and can come back to their game any time. Like we haven't seen media disappear off streaming services all the time. Like nobody has ever fallen on hard times and had to cut ongoing costs. Fuck off.
- Literally the debate is happening because games and media have vanished... including Ubisoft games!

Gamer here. Go fuck yourself Ubisoft. You can quote me on that.
- If a service isn't doing me any kind of good, I don't pay. This is just showing piracy will win, cause it's a service issue not a pricing issue.
  But no money isn't lost revenue, because you weren't getting my money anyway.

Counterpoint: I dont fucking want subscription services to take off. I want to pay for the game I'm gonna play and only the game I'm gonna play.

Game Pass is going gangbusters. A monthly fee to play shitloads of games, including first party titles at launch, with a discount on purchasing those games if I decide I want them? Awesome.
I think the problem is you, Ubisoft. No one trusts you. And you keep releasing the same game.
- You know what's fucking ironic? Ubisoft might as well be Abstergo and me Rayman. I like Watch_dogs and Anno, I really do, but I'm not a goddamn Les Collaboateurs. Good concepts do not excuse greedy implementations, and unlike Rayman I've never defended Ubisoft before I have begun criticizing their practices - ever since Anno 1800 and Watch_dogs Legion were Epic Games exclusive - so take it from me; Fuck this guy and Ubisoft should crash and burn.
  On a totally unrelated, I swear dude no connection at all, note: Anyone ever see the intro to Nitrome Must Die!?
- Someday I think "Maybe I'll play the Assassin's Creed games"
  Then I remember that I played the first one, meaning I already have.
  
  I do recommend Black Flag. It’s at least a little different (you spend a lot of time on a pirate ship sailing around sinking other ships) and really fun.

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- How dare gamers not accept our consumer hostile payment structure!

And if anyone needed to know whether these companies are run by entitled idiots, this is the proof.
- We show them with our wallets how out of touch they are! It's to the high seas, yarr!! 🏴‍☠️
  
  There may be enough of a super fan base to keep their titles alive even if they never innovate again.

I don't know what planet he's on but we already don't really own our games. Hell if Steam goes down I'm going to lose access to pretty much everything.
The problem is more that I don't trust Ubisoft to not change the terms of the agreement halfway through. I can totally see them pulling a rockstar and getting rid of an old version of the game if they decide they want to do an HD release.
- Steam has a clause where if they shut down you will have access to all of your games still.
  
  Kind of, not really
  There will be lawsuits around it when it happens that will prevent it
- Laughs in yo ho.
  
  One can also laugh in GOG. Sometimes.
- The worst part is Rockstar admitted the HD Remakes were shit, and fired the company responsible, but still didn't restore the good versions (Thank God I got those while I could)
  Fuck there were rumors that company was gonna remake Max Payne next, made me grab the fucking Steam version while I could... best god damn advertising for the original Max Payne possible.
  But yeah, I dread the day Gaben dies and his successor says "Let's make this a publicly traded company!"

Ubisoft exec, you should get comfortable sucking our collective dicks

That's funny. It's been years since I gave Ubisoft any money and I'm perfectly comfortable.

One more reason why it’s morally acceptable and necessary to torrent Ubisoft games

The Ubisoft exect can kindly fuck himself with a cactus.

As gamers grow comfortable in that aspect… you don't lose your progress. If you resume your game at another time, your progress file is still there. That's not been deleted. You don't lose what you've built in the game or your engagement with the game. So it's about feeling comfortable with not owning your game.
Yeah, you know I don't lose my game either saved on my CPU or Xbox with a copy of the game I don't have to pay for more than once for a predetermined value.
- Also, he never mentions that the game will still be there, just the progress file. Why doesn't he address being uncomfortable with games disappearing from the subscription?
  
  Seriously
  I played a ubi mobile game for 2 years, and then they just flat abandoned it. Stopped support. No new content. Nothing. No warning either

Fucking, brain dead tool.
Thank whatever is sacred to you that these mindless drones picked video games. Have no doubt that it this same person hadn't flunked out of medical school, they'd be running a chain of hospitals somewhere saying, "patients need to just get used to bleeding more and for longer to support our profit model".
- As a medical student, I have a negative amount of trust in and/or respect for anyone in the healthcare sector that has a business degree.
  
  The world is run by people who claim to have business degrees and then they make decisions that even a drunk would think are erroneous.
  My country is run by someone with a business degree and he's an utter moron.
  
  As well you should.
- Medicine has been corrupted for just as long as video games, if not longer, unfortunately. These soulless husks in business suits are everywhere, unfortunately.
  
  The problem are the investors and executives that are there solely to suck money, that don't care about quality or sustainability and will instantly jump ship as soon as they finish destroying the company, to latch on the next thing.
  To them it's not good enough for a business to be stable, it's not good enough for it to be profitable. No, it has to be always more profitable than before, infinitely. If they reached the limit, then they will take it apart to get more money.
- They do.
  
  I don’t think I’ve ever hated reading anything more than that.
  Good god.

Ubisoft executives need to get comfortable being unemployed.

If I don't own the games I bought them piracy isn't stealing. It goes both ways fuckers.
- Once again we see how piracy is justified! These corporations can only see their greed when it hits their bottom line!
- This slogan needs to be adopted by everyone really.. The future seems to be "You will own nothing and like it!"
  Well, the present needs to tell that future "If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing!"

Ubisoft needs to get comfortable with fucking off with their launcher bullshit or I will never ever buy their games again
- There are games from EA and Ubisoft that I'm interested in playing, but I've had such a poor experience with their games on my Steamdeck that I'd rather just play something else.
  Say what you will about Blizzard, but I appreciate them for not shoving an additional launcher inbetween Steam and their games.
  
  Which Blizzard games can you play on Steam Deck? I have the same issue with Ubi games on my Deck

Comfortable not owning what?
- "Sing it with me now, YOU ARE A PIRATE..."

Subscribe to my nuts Ubisoft

I am very comfortable not owning ubisoft games, because I am not buying them. :)
Every company that is hostile towards their own customer will soon have no customer (hopefully, lol).
- Same here, I even refused participating to a family game event because they are playing The Settlers IV. I would have happily played the GOG version, but somehow the UbiSoft version (that they played) was more functional (understand that the GOG version is purposely broken) and the two are incompatible when it comes to online multiplayer.
  Also, I suspect you meant customer, not costumer... 😉
  
  ooooops, vowels are hard, man.
- Unfortunately most humans are absolute idiots, so I expect you'll be wrong. They'll still have idiots preordering their latest cookie cutter ass game

Not really, Ubisoft.
Much like music, movies and TV, you just need to make sure your content is both available for purchase for people who don't want a subscription and consistently available on a subscription service for those that do.
It's when you start fucking around and taking them off again because somebody else is offering you more for exclusivity that we get pissed off and just pirate things. You can't expect Assassin's Creed Black Flag to still be making you a noticeable amount of money, but a subscriber can rightfully expect it to be on your service.
I'm of the opinion that if a game is on a subscription service, be it PSN or Game Pass, then it should stay there except in very extreme circumstances. A game can take weeks to play through, and it's only going to take one large game going AWOL at 90% completion for me to sour on the whole idea.

I really don't need a subscription service to give me access to even more games that I'll just launch and play for about 20 minutes before I go back to playing battlefield 4

Fuck Ubisoft executives.

I’m already VERY comfortable not having any Ubisoft games! ☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️

Snarky comments and people joking about Ubisoft's practices but in reality many if not most will simply accept that, spread their butt-cheeks and prepare for all the shoddy practices to be rammed up their ass. Once they get one foot in the door it's just incremental steps from there, be it visual downgrades, selling experience boosters for games they made slower on purpose, day one DLCs, pre-orders, special editions, accounts for "offline" game, etc. Anything goes if they can squeeze another dollar from their customers. There's a message stronger than words when Ubisoft is constantly voted most hated company and yet remains one of the biggest.
Not sure what to tell you masochistic fans but Eves said spread the cheeks some more, there's nothing else for you to do obviously. Bend over.
- That happened to Comcast for a while. They milked it for a while, but it it led to them having a 10-year stock low. They're paying a price for being the most-hated company in America. Not the price they deserve, but it's not all sunshine and roses.
  Ubisoft will have its day the same way, eventually. It won't be the day they deserve, but it'll still make them cry. And it'll be their own doing.
  
  I hope that happens to all who abuse consumers, but Ubisoft has been at it for a while now and punishment is yet to come. Hopefully you are right and that day comes sooner rather than later. Some humility will do them good.
- We can avoid all these problems if we refuse to use any software that doesn't come with a license that respects your freedom:
  GPL
  MIT
  APACHE

Ubisoft needs to get used to me never buying their repetative lazy games every again.
What a shame. FC3, 4 and primal are some of my favorite games..

Ubisoft and EA are the only games I pirate. Fuck those shitty cancer companies.
- Corporate greed has gotten completely out of control. The only way we can force these companies to give to their users is by us collectively voting with our wallets. To the torrents we must!

I’m already confident with having 0 Ubisoft games in my library.

Imagine playing a Ubisoft game
- I tried to play an assassin's creed game but it required an Ubisoft account and signing their privacy policy. For an offline game on my console, why?!
  Unfortunately I do have an Ubisoft account now so I can play Anno 1602 -- the remaster/updated version is only on Ubisoft.
  
  I've long resisted the gaming consoles, but gave up when the Horizon Forbidden West came out. To be honest, I was kinda excited. Imagine just putting a game in and playing right away... I could finally just play the game instead of role-playing an unpaid quality assurance employee!
  Let's just say the setup procedure for my PS5 was not like that at all. Took me half a day to make it running stable. And the Assassin's Creed game that came with the console had the same fucking mandatory login form as on the PC! Except there was no keyboard...
  
  And this is why Ubisoft is still a thing. They come up with outrageous demands and people eventually capitulate and do whatever they say. Once foot is in the door all sins are equal at that point. Visual downgrades, day one DLCs, paid XP boosters for game intentionally made grindier, special editions, etc.
  
  Yeah I bought Anno 2205 on Steam last weekend. Was excited until I saw it installed and required me to log in to some Ubisoft app which now runs by my clock in the taskbar even after my game is closed. So cool. I’m glad it was clear to me ahead of time too that it requires that. Who am I kidding… none of that was told ahead of time and it pissed me off then and pisses me Off now.

What a fucking piece of shit. Yuck.

I love hearing these stories of big gaming companies being shitty as usual, knowing I only play indie games and I'm not giving theme a dime

Ubisoft doing God's work.
And by that I mean not having their games available on steam so I cannot purchase them.

Subscriptions are taking off, just not Ubisoft subscriptions because most of their games are derivative shit.
And personally I don't have an objection with the concept of subscription as an option. It's no worse than streaming music or videos, or renting a DVD / VHS back when. But whatever the service is will have to have a LOT of content, not just back catalogue but new stuff too with fair & reasonable terms for people to want to subscribe. If Ubisoft wants to ever see its stuff streamed it will have to be as part of some other, better service than the one they offer that's for sure.
- I mean I'll buy a new Rayman game if they release one that isn't a phone game, but I'm not paying a subscription for it.
  Shit ever wonder why Captain Laserhawk seems to be a Furry Story taking place in a world more closely resembling Cyberpunk 2077 than Blood Dragon? Because Ubisoft doesn't have any IPs anyone cares about other than Rayman (which they do nothing with) and the three people who still think Beyond Good & Evil 2 will actually come out someday, or not be a repeat of DNF 2011 if it does....
  That said don't mistake that for me talking shit about Captain Laserhawk, that show is fucking amazing.
- Gamepass just got Farcry 6 and AC: Valhalla and both games are exactly as you said, derivative shit, but it surprised me because I know ubi has their own sub. I wonder if they are abandoning it already.
  
  The first Assassin's Creed was kinda cool, but everything else has pretty much just been the first game in a different setting, played one ya play them all.
  
  I would be surprised if their sub service was not a failure. In fairness the service has hundreds of games but most in the last 5 years has been garbage and beyond that, where is the value? As a consumer I might as well buy old games on GOG, Steam or wherever at my discretion rather than be locked in to a sub that costs the same and have nothing to show for it afterwards.
  These services need thousands of games, across a range of publishers. Even better if they support downloads or streaming as options. So basically I don't see subs working unless it is large platform owner who can incentivize publishers and thousands of titles to partake in it.
- I think even implementing such an option allows companies to get more aggressive in their pricing, arguing that if you don't like the price, you can pay subscription (which obviously also accumulates to astronomical numbers, it's just that monthly payment doesn't seem equally scary)

Pretty easy to not own a Ubisoft game. Assassin's Creed and Far Cry series are pretty boring IMO.
- Get to vantage point.
  Explore actionable map points.
  Go to next area.
  Repeat.
  Which game am I talking about? Doesn't matter, it's the Ubisoft formula these days and has been for a long time.
  Wake me up when Ubisoft metaphorically burns to the ground, or they do something innovative.
  
  I'll set a timer for February 31st, 197385
- I think they're fun but their games are not the kind of games I stick around for after the story ends.

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