Dems rip Biden for launching Houthi strikes without congressional approval
Some Republicans, meanwhile, couched their praise of the strikes in broader criticism of the administration's foreign policy actions.
Congress has wanted nothing to do with conflicts in an official capacity for the last 50-60 years. They want sound bytes in unofficial interviews for grandstanding and to be able to blame everyone else.
This is actually a result of those decades of congress, regardless of party in control, abdicating their constitutional duty. For a recent example, check out post 9/11 and congress.
This. A thousand times this.
Both Obama and Biden have been more than willing to sign a repeal or massive overhaul of the AUMF, but both chambers of Congress and members of both parties therein are cowards who would rather cheer or criticize in front of a camera and microphone than perform their Constitutional duties of checking the power of the Commander in Chief.
At the same time, we shouldn't be defeatist when it comes to ethics and holding our government branches accountable. If they are arguing in good faith, we should support efforts for more transparency and secure processes.
Remember the Republican reaction when Obama did the same thing in Libya?
Reeeeeee! 72 hours to get our approval or we'll impeach you! Reeeeeee! Not authorized! Not funded!
Then when our embassy there... in Benghazi... was attacked... it was years of "Reeeee! Why didn't you DO something??!?!?!"
After they stripped embassy security funding for it, naturally.
Is Ben Gazi the talented buttery male I hear so much about?
All part of Hillary's plan to whip up support for war.
Another terrorist group fucks around and finds out.
War is not something to glorify. It's unfortunate that the situation with Israel/Palestine, Saudis/Iran, and Houthis/US escalated to this point.
Another terrorist group fuck around and innocent people find out.
The last war declared by Congress was Korea in the early 1950s in WW2. Dark Brandon doesn't have time for this foolishness. Yemen was warned again and again. They've now entered the find out stage.
edit: brain worms
The last war by US Congress was declared in June 1942, against Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania. US Congress has not made a formal declaration of war since then.
Right but they pass laws granting authorization of military use of force, AUMF. That's the Congressional authority to declare war under the War Powers Clause of the Constitution.
If you read the annotations to that clause you will see that the framers intent, traditional interpretation, and certainly modern interpretation are in agreement that the Constitution does not foreclose executive initiated use of force in what would be considered self defense, and that would certainly include the measured and limited destruction of an enemy's ability to carry out further attacks on US interests, and would certainly cover such defensive measures when done in agreement and in concert with a broad coalition of allies.
Corrected. Thanks.
Yemen has been getting bombed by Saudi Arabia with the full backing of the US for almost a decade now, creating one of the worst humanitarian crises still ongoing. You're right about the brain worms, but it's not because you goofed up the last war declared by congress. Dumb Brandon is not cool for continuing the status quo with the military industrial complex.
Ww2, Korea was never declared.
Does a formal declaration of war matter?
The Wikipedia entry for the Korean War mentions Congress allocating money for the war effort within the month after US got involved. That certainly appears to be Congressional approval.
And the US response was after a UN resolution calling for it, giving some legitimacy
Corrected. Thanks.
Yemen was warned not to block the ports of a genocidial neighbour. But they just wouldn't stop. And now the US has to bomb them. So sad.
Oh fuck off with this tired propaganda line. After Korea we did Vietnam as a "police action" and then Congress filled in the semantic loop hole with the War Powers Act. Which governs how we go to war now. If we need to fight an actual war then Congress has to pass an AUMF, Authorization to Use Military Force.
Every action since Vietnam has either fallen into the 60 day period presidents are allowed for emergencies or an AUMF. Congress has absolutely been exercising it's war powers. This stupid fucking lie gets trotted out by the far left and the far right for different uses and I'm done hearing it.
Some progressives need to put down the flowers and smoke some bad guys now and then. Conservatives need to cram their sabers up their own asses and die.
I'll take soft progressives over the other any day of the week, but demanding Congressional approval is fucking absurd right now. It'll take 8 months and be filled with unrelated laws, financial packages for Ohio and Texas, and pro-oil deregulation.
Not to mention, having foreseen exactly this problem previous representatives passed the War Powers Act. Biden absolutely has the authority to blow shit up. He can do it without any reason or other authority for 60 days. Then he has 30 days to remove American troops from that area. (Or return force levels to where they were)
So you want more executive power? .. almost like that the president can do things without Congress?
.. boom dictatorship.
There's a line, idk what it should be but it should be.
No, but have the power to make quick action against small threats via airstrike and missile strikes shouldn't need the end endless hem and haw from a bunch of clowns.
Jesus fucking Christ, Congress is peak dysfunction.
Republicans: "Hold my MAGA hat!"
They might have a stronger case if they haven't proven to be a 'do nothing' Congress. They can't even put together a budget.
Congress signed over the rights to just do war crimes whenever you feel like it back under Reagan.
Now the President can do the thing, Congress can call a hearing to complain about it, elections happen, power changes hands, and the only people who suffer are the ones getting bombed.
No one is saying let the planet go to hell
Yes, yes they are. Maybe not you, but there are billionaires saying exactly that.
So are they going to repeal the War Powers Act? Are we going back to needing a Declaration of War to deal with every pissant pirate?
Not the pirates of pissants? Have they try singing to distract them?
Houthi and the Blowfish
It would be a good start, yes.
No, it wouldn't. A straight repeal of the War Powers Act also opens us up to another Vietnam. And amending it such that any use of force requires congressional approval would put us in an international straight jacket. From defending our shipping interests to protecting allies. In the event of China deciding it would rather just take existing islands to make it's "nine dashed line" a reality, we'd be arguing about immigration instead of deploying the Navy. And we would instantly lose the trade access we have to the entirety of the SEA region.
We tried isolationism. It didn't work.
Asking Congress is a surefire way to get nothing done.
Maybe that's a good default stance when the topic is war.
Limited war is always a tricky topic. Where do you draw the line between a full on war and making the seas safe for trade,
Luckily, the aftermath of the Vietnam War gave us an answer. The War Powers Act. Which gives the president authority to use the military in situations exactly like this. If he tries to turn it into a big thing, then it has to go in front of Congress.
Isn't fighting piracy like legal for everyone? Like a private citizen or any country's military could go out there and hunt pirates. I remember that from when the somali pirates got yeeted.
The AUMF probably also actually has given him the right to do this.
No AUMF required to bonk pirates. It's the national version of self defense.
None of these representatives objected to us sinking boats involved in piracy operations. They're objecting to attacks on land against a group that is pretty close to a government. There's some point at which on-land operations turn from being defending against piracy to regime change. Which may be warranted, but should be decided by Congress.
There are no laws in international waters.
You underestimate the reach of US law. Also, the "Law of the Sea" clearly applies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
There are laws that govern Antarctica, Outer Space, the Moon, etc. International waters are just less regulated, but there are definitely laws.
Oh yeah the infighting is getting bad. Get ready for an absolute terrible election season for the Democrats.
I'm seeing "leftists" using the same vocabulary as Q-anon style crazy morons. The vitriol is being spat like no matter what their isn't a right answer and it's not made better by the fact that we as a country are still basically pushing for all the worse aspects of ourselves because it's what feels normal.
People are all gonna join in to help burn it down and think they will be the kings of the ashes but largest organized group is gonna be the real victor and it's for sure as hell not the self hating left.
Maybe I will be wrong and the vote against method will work again but if it does we need to make some hard turns to get things actually getting better and get some companionship happening or it will just be a bloodbath between factions that wanted their scoop of the ashes.
It's because these "leftists" are right wing trolls. Full stop. This "Genocide Joe" shit in particular is so fucking transparently a trump-style attack it's laughable. Leftist spaces on the internet are so far up their own reactionary assholes they are now actively protecting far right propagandists and calling it left unity.
Yeah I actually got banned from a "leftist" sub (r/latestagecapitalism on Reddit) because I called out a literal right wing propaganda post from a literal maga mouthpiece that was a lie.
And the mod responded with:
We don't work with the Demo-kkk-rats
Like a literal fascist response because it makes their dick hard to feel like they are standing up to the bad guys while supporting the end of democracy. Neat. Not a leftist.
It is interesting/sad just how hard Biden is sticking to the old ways of doing things even though most people seem to have moved on from that way of thinking.
*“Most people” applies only to lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and some college campuses.
Seriously - people dramatically overestimate how much has changed.
The legislative branch has been busted for so long that they literally ceded power to go to war to the executive for the good of the nation. Y'all can feel free to undo that at any time once you're not completely broken.
Last I heard, the AUMFs were still active. Assuming that was used to justify this legally.
No need. The War Powers Act 30 Day emergency powers clearly apply.
Are they suggesting to allow US Navy ships to be attacked without retaliation? It’s been going on for like 2 months now. Are they willing to have that on their voting record?
Did they send a strongly worded letter, that they later retracted, again...?
I don't think it's his actions that are the problem. I think it is WHO did them that is the problem which can be seen by the charge being led by the infamous Rashida Talib from Michigan.
Congressman Ro Khanna:
I am so glad Khanna isn't getting the Senate seat. If this was just his opinion and he was advocating for changing the War Powers Act, great. But he presents it as legal fact when it really isn't.
Implying Biden "took us into war" in Yemen? Because we've been bombing them for decades.
Have they gone to war?
Dropping bombs is an act of war, so yes. I guess the de jure, internationally recognized state of Yemen approves of the bombings, but the de facto state run by the Houthis is at war with the US.
Of course, the Houthis have committed acts of war first by violating the rights of the sea, so take that as you will.
Iran is a whole ass country, the Houthis are a rebel faction, for lack of a better term. I think this whole situation is kinda different... Matter of opinion I guess...
They're a rebel faction that controls most of the country, including the capital. It's different, but they're a lot closer to a government than something like Hezbollah.
The Houthis are only considered a rebel faction because the US said so. I don't exactly like them but they're basically the government of Yemen.
But don't you get it?!
Biden's last name isnt trump, and he has a D by his name. Obviously expecting any other diffences mean you hate America...
"There is no difference between an attempt to start a war with an organized state of millions of people which has engaged in no provocation beyond international norms, and a strike against a terrorist group currently attacking civilian shipping." - Most Informed "BOTH SIDES" Fan
The Democrats (except for Biden) aren't being hypocritical here. They objected to both Trump and Biden.
Need that sweet sweet oil money.
Russia's got oil
So Israel is going to colonize Gaza, and the US is going to take Yemen?
What could possibly go wrong?
NOBODY wants Yemen. Don't sweat it. Their only natural resource is civil war. Mostly, we just are looking to destroy Iran's proxy forces.
Also, we've had operations there periodically through multiple previous administations. The Saudis own our government officials and presidents.
Not to mention, all the weapons and missiles, and planes the Saudis use are just provided by the US politicians they own.
Just keep in mind, war goals change. When we went into Iraq, we were "destroying WMDs" and "responding to 9/11", and by the time we came out, we were instead "building democracy". Violence often causes more violence, even if well-intentioned.
Biden when Americans need help:
I'm just a president I can't do anything without Congress!
Biden when far right ethnostate wants to do another genocide in the Middel East:
Fuck congress, I'm a president! Vote trump if you don't like it.
Motherfucker is 80 years old and has no idea what he's doing. We deserve better than our only two options
Oh, is that what this is about? We're attacking the Houthis in defense of Israel?
Don't be fucking daft, or disingenuous, which is worse because it displays complete moral cowardice.
We're attacking the Houthis because they're indiscriminately attacking civilian ships in one of the most valuable shipping lanes in the fucking world.
I guess you don't know this, but there are, in fact, different limitations in what the President can do.
When it comes to military action, Congress gave the President essentially blanket authority to do anything that can be even remotely connected to "fighting terrorism", so this is not in any way a "Fuck Congress" moment. If Congress wants to withdraw that authority and actually do its job again, it can do that at literally any time.
Are you familiar with the term "Commander in Chief"?
Did you miss when Biden was (rightly) criticizing trump for going around Congress for strikes like this and Biden said no president should ever do that....
And now he's doing it?
His entire campaign is "I'm not trump", but he acts more like him everyday. And I don't expect him to turn it around after he wins the last election of his 60 year political career.
I agree with you but that is also the legal framework we gave him to work with.