Am I the only one who never promotes Linux?
I'm currently holding an opinion that everyone who can enjoy Linux will eventually try it on their own.
I think, despite what many people say, an average user still has a very rough time using it, and in my opinion you need some level of nerdiness in order to overcome adaptation pains, and such people already use internet in a nerdy way and will try out Linux on their own eventually.
I think this depends. People who need basic computer functions can get on very well with linux.
My classmate in highschool had ubuntu on his home pc as long as I remember, because someone preconfigured it for them and it was mainly a browser - schoolwork machine. He gamed on XBox. There was no hassle, it was fine.
My mom on her run down laptop has mint now, because I configured it for her. I haven’t heard any complaints.
E: Also many hospital here run Linux and it is just fine, and trust me, many of the medical staff are barely tech literate enough to register for email themselves.
Linux is a problem for people who come from windows and need more than basics but are not tech savvy enough to get their hands dirty. Then once your comfort level with tinkering goes up again, Linux is once again not a bad recommendation. It really kind of is the bell curve meme.
Linux is a problem for people who come from windows and need more than basics but are not tech savvy enough to get their hands dirty.
Spot-on. For people with minimal to no computer skills in the first place Linux will serve them well.
The one who well struggle the most ironically are Windows "Power users" and other intermediate/advanced users who don't have the equivalent skill already in Linux or time/willingness to learn Linux systems.
I've already given a similar answer somewhere in this thread, but my point is, yes, it works well for advanced users (stack overflow enjoyers) and total beginners (Where do I click to get to Facebook?), while average users are in the middle, and are simultaneously require more features than beginners, but do not have the means to solve them.
What about when they buy a new printer and need drivers. Or want to install some software they heard about that only works on Windows/Mac? I am a software developer and still struggle to find a use case where Linux would be better than Windows. If it's not a game that won't work then it's an IDE that's unavailable. There always seems to be something that isn't fully compatible or doesn't have a functional equivalent in Linux.
I don't either (despite the fact that I use Arch BTW). The average adult in my country is barely able to use their computer for basic tasks (think Word/Excel, basic internet usage). Having all these people on Linux is a nightmare scenario I don't want to imagine. I would love nothing more than Linux becoming the norm in the not-so-distant future, but the computer literacy in the general population is just too low right now.
It doesn't seem to be the case with distros like Mint. I even know folks who have Mint but they have no clue about tech or computers at all. As users they can hardly tell difference. And It's actually easier on them because it doesn't get all messy as Windows does for non tech folks, so there is almost no maintenance needed. I very much recommended it for granparents and such, so you don't have to go fixing their Windows PC each visit because they downloaded tons of random danger ware by not understanding what they do.
Yeah, that's the thing. Two categories of users can properly enjoy Linux (in my opinion):
- Technically advanced users who can figure out a lot on their own
- Technically illiterate users ("Show me where to click to get to Facebook")
While average users are the ones to suffer. They are technically picky enough to require more advanced features than "click to open Google", but not nerdy enough to spend hours reading stack overflow to make something they need work.
Most average users will be actively displeased that their settings menu is now different and confusing, office tools have slightly different UI, and some specialized software is missing.
Average user does not spend hours learning GIMP, they blame Linux for not having Photoshop and quit. Sad but true
The only reason it's like that is because devices come preinstalled with Windows. I would love if we had the Linux option that makes the device cost less
You are not, I even warn others before they decide to try it or someone recommends it
I do both. When someone comes to me regarding their laptop overheating and slowdown issues, I recommend them Linux, right before fixing their Windows. And when someone asks me which one to use, or what to start with, or how to install, I warn them about the difficulties (because one who potentially can use Linux, will ask different questions).
Microsoft Office and Adobe software are the main anchors to Windows currently. Anyone using them (as is professionally required) is stuck with Windows or MacOS.
I would not actually recommend it to anyone IRL, but on the internet? Sure. You are not happy with the lack of privacy on Windows? I have the solution for you! Also I setup my dad with Mint after Win XP support ran out. He uses nothing but Chrome and Thunderbird anyways. Just taught him how to do updates and he is good to go.
Agreed. Unconditionally recommending Linux to regular people isn't a good idea. In my opinion it's fine with all the disclaimers about possible disadvantages and recommend them to inform themselves about it.
Just talking about my experience got them interested enough to at some point try to daily drive Linux on their desktop PC, one of them used PopOS for 2 years on their uni laptop at that point.
At the end of the day it's all about expectations. Most people are uninterested in computers and want to continue using what they know. Others want to experiment and will learn more themselves after being shown something interesting (through YT, conversations, Steam Deck tutorials, ...).
"I'm having trouble with this game on Linux"
"Just install Windows, nerd. Stupid zealots."
Goes the other way too. :p
Or get Proton and Let Valve do the rest.
But in reality, you really only recommend it to strangers. If you recommend any piece of tech to someone you know, you iust changed your status to tech support.
Tech support has been my status since I was 12. Honestly, I enjoy being able to explain stuff like this.
Yeah, same, stuff like why is Linux on my computer now, why are ads blocked, where is Chrome, etc - listen, I'm the only tech support you have, you get what you get, and you get FOSS.
Honestly it worked fairly perfectly for me over the decades.
Me being tech support is WHY i said that. I told my family either use Linux or leave me alone. Half of them let me install Linux and I've not needed to do anything in years. They are basic users aka open chrome and nothing else and unlike windows Linux doesn't constantly kill itself over time.
I occasionally ssh in to make sure updates are still working and once to setup a new printer remotely but that's it
Exactly. If someone recommends Linux to a person in real life, they deserve what's coming to them.
"IF I'M ALREADY DOING SUDO WHY IS IT PROHIBITED?" "THE ETC FOLDER? WHICH ONE?"
I do use Linux, and I'm usually glad about it, but I wasted an hour last night trying to figure out how to change my microphone port to a subwoofer port, and never did solve the problem. Linux is awesome, but sometimes basic stuff is ridiculously difficult or impossible.
Does the physical port actually have that capability? My motherboard has a lot of audio ports but inputs cannot be outputs and vice versa
Probably not. Unless it's bi directional combined port. But remapping audio ports like that seems like an extremely niche case I find support for it very rare in any case.
Yes, and it's trivial to retask with the AC97 HD Audio program in Windows, but I couldn't find an equivalent program for Linux.
If you're using pipewire, try XDAJackRetask, I use it for that purpose.
Thanks, I'll give it a shot.
Well, as a Linux user myself, I used to do this kind of thing when I was getting started and was too damn hyped about FOSS and everything. Now, I simply ask people what they want from a computer and how much are they invested into tech.
Do you want things to be as simple as possible? Use Mac or Windows.
Do you want to learn more about how things work under the hood? Use Linux.
Gaming? Use Windows (and yes, although I'm a proud Proton user, some games just won't work, like Valorant and PUBG).
Gaming? Use Windows (and yes, although I’m a proud Proton user, some games just won’t work, like Valorant and PUBG).
I love proton on my steamdeck, and I'd like to try to go linux vs having to stay on win10 with no updates on my gaming computer. But outside of some games not working, a lot of hardware/accessories don't have official support either. As far as I can tell, goxlr, streamdeck, and other hardware/software I use daily, have no official support, which for items I use that often makes it pretty much a non-starter on migrating.
Yeah linux handles many games fine with proton and stuff, but there are too much things you give up.
Razer mouse with multiple side buttons? No GUI for setting that up, download some other hotkey software and make a custom profile on that. Open razer for RGB control.
Corsair headphones? No software, not able to get task bar icon about battery level.
Sometimes play racing games? Too bad there is no drivers for your wheel, except one that was made by some guy 5 years ago that got 60% of the features working, and to change settings you have to edit text files.
A new multiplayer game comes out that doesnt work on linux and all your friends are playing? Soon you find yourself just booting straight to windows instead of sometimes hopping on windows to play some game.
Connect a ps4 controller and linux sets it as default audio device and there is no GUI option to disable that, just gotta switch back when connecting the controller.
Boot to OS and open steam, no games are installed? Oh right you need to go mount the drive first. Watch a 10 minute youtube video where some dude explains how to auto mount drives.
Want to create a bootable windows USB and the tool that came with the OS tells you the usb stick is in use and that it needs to be unmounted, do that and then it tells you there is no usb there, because ya unmount it. Try another software but it wont select the iso file. Try google for help, top answer is "borrow your friends windows computer"
I like linux and learned a lot when using it, and will use it in the future on machines that dont need anything extra. But for my habits it just felt silly to be there, and constantly switch back to play games, or stay on linux and have a worse experience doing something, like driving games.
I am also real tech savy person and can overcome most of these hurdles, but most of my friends would never be able to overcome some of these things. I also found that many questions about linux on some forums are answered with stuff like "why on earth do you want that? Just dont do that or do something else" and that was kind of a bummer as well.
While not official, this used to work fine for me when I had a streamdreck
I'm not going to try to explain how to use Linux to my wife unless I get a salary for it.
In an effort to relieve her PC of constantly deluge of virus and malware, I switched my Mom over to Ubuntu in the 2000’s. She lasted a month.
The experiment ended when she called me in tears because of her silent 4 week struggle with the OS.
She couldn’t get her scanner to work reliably, and none of her “print shop” software was compatible.
I know more now than I did then, and the distros have come a long way since, but I don’t have the time to retrain her and at 70 years old, I just want her to use what she’s comfortable with, even if that means I have to occasionally scrub her PC.
An oldie but still relevant
https://www.theonion.com/getting-mom-onto-internet-a-sisyphean-ordeal-1819566480
What concept is so foreign on mint or ubuntu that it would need explanation?
My parents didn't notice a difference (early 60s). Firefox, Spotify, and vlc, done.
"How the fuck linux is gonna help my faulty PSU dumbass??"
sudo apt-get install --reinstall psu
Damn they really do have commands for everything
I thought there was an emacs command?
All of my computer problems went away after switching to Linux, so I'd say it's solid advice.
Granted, I do have computer problems, they're just different 🐧
The difference is that with Linux, it's possible to become smart enough to fix all the issues. Windows is designed in such a way that there usually isn't a way to fix its problems to avoid format and reinstalls no matter how much you know.
Lol, Linux users are funny.
I've found that my problems went from "minor annoyances that occur regular with no way to fix other than waiting for it to fix itself" and "major annoyance with workaround, has been like this since Windows 7" to "this bug almost completely breaks your system but the first search result has the three steps to permanently fix it"
Granted I'm on Arch and Plasma 6 Beta so that's to be expected
Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing.
Windows is only $price if your data and privacy are worth nothing.
That can be applied to most hobbies in general. Not using an automated coffee machine? Time worth nothing. Cooking rather buying takeout? Building your own pc rather than buying prebuilt? Drawing rather than generating with AI? Time worth nothing, that's why.
The thing is a PC isn't a hobby, but a tool for most people.
The learning experience gained from the time worth nothing is also worth nothing
The only thing Linux costs is your soul because you will be configuring and fiddling with it for all eternity.
... so your time ...
I have a friend who hates Microsoft in probably every way possible, yet still uses Windows, because he doesn't want to use "the nerd OS".
You get a huge backlash if you advice Windows to a Linux user.
But somehow this is supposed to be funny?
Its funny because a lot of people do this even though its completely unhelpful in solving their problem.
To be fair, Windows' support is also unhelpful in solving their problem.
It's the "just Google it" response
Ah, the funny part is the cringe, I see.
I encountered it tons before, like people suggesting Chrome when the only browser that was supported was IE back in the day.
the irony is the "just use another distro" advices
To be fair, using Linux is (usually) much more of an active decision.
It's all fun and games until you try to use Linux and spend 3 months trying to figure out how to do something like setting up digital 5.1 audio or how to get your graphics drivers to actually work properly
As an IT professional with over two decades of experience I can say this meme is wholly inaccurate.
The first thing you try when you have computer problems is to turn it off and on again.
Then if it's still broken, install a PDF reader.
You sir/maam/non-binary made me laugh, that was a good joke. Thank you :D
Not to be that guy, but this is actually the most useless advice ever for someone who genuinely has a computer problem. Like, I like Linux as much as the next person, but asking someone to learn a whole ass OS from scratch on the OFF CHANCE it will fix their issue is not great.
i agree, but when they keep complaining about 'file explorer is too slow', 'popups/ads are so annoying', 'cant open .tar.gz', you can see that this all comes from the same underlying outdated system. i know all these problems can be solved in windows, but more will always appear
"My Linux computer has problems!"
"Just compile from source"
It failed compiling
"Just make your own OS"
I use Arch by the way
😅 That's what i thought as well but it also depends on distro and their community. I've never got such a support from MS or Google as i did from these non payer dudes who do it in their free time.
Just today, just today...
My daughter wanted to do something trivial with windows, but did not know how. Online help referred to a button that did not exist in the application. I know at least three ways to accomplish the same action on Linux, and I know they just work.
I haven't owned a Windows machine in over a decade. If someone wants help, this is my response because I have not kept up with the changes, for lack of any need or desire to do so.
"Can you help me with my computer?"
"If it is running Linux or BSD, or you want it to, sure. If not, I'm not the guy for the job."
IDK. I'm to the point where I don't touch anyone's phone or computer, because if I glance at it from a speeding car, I'm suddenly responsible for everything that suddenly "now doesn't work" in their entire house, probably including the dishwasher.
My wife was telling me that she saw an article about Microsoft supposedly planning to add a "small" banner for advertisements to the desktop on Windows and the essence of this meme was my precise response.
*99% of Lemmy
Me when someone's Ubuntu install reaches EOL: just install Arch
Here's a bootable flash drive with Mint.
Play around and see if you like it. If you do, use the install program on the desktop.
That's what I actually say. "Just use Linux" works better for the meme.
I tried to use Linux back in 2005. After spending five hours trying to get Wi-Fi to work I vowed id never recommend it to anyone.
Yeah but that's 19 years ago
I tried installing it on my 3 years old (at the time) Surface Book and while some things worked they certainly didn't work as well as in Windows. I messed around with a specially crafted Linux kernel for the Surface devices and that was a bit better but the wifi routinely stopped working after resuming from sleep. The touchscreen worked but not with the pen. The device also consumed huge amounts of battery life when sleeping. Would not recommend.
That was in 2005. Now you can try on a live ISO if everything works before installing, and the driver support expanded massively.
I remember in 2008 when I was in university trying to use Linux on my laptop. I had to run a script at the command line to connect to my uni's wifi, because the UI always failed to connect. Then I had to keep wpa_supplicant running in a terminal window the entire time.
Month ago I had to use an official python script to connect to my high school's wifi. It was a simple dialog gui though.
Wouldn't that just cause more problems?
Bro it's so easy just restart the Xorg server Bro it's obvious you just need to install the WAYLAND version not X11 for this program to work
I'm spooked
I used Linux for about a week, every game ran way faster (60 instead of 20 fps on ultra detail) - but all games were very unstable and crashed frequently (despite the clear performance advantage.)
I also had troubles getting the low latency kernel working properly for music production. I just could not figure it out. Something to do with WineASIO, JACK audio and pulseaudio. FL studio worked flawlessly, though some fonts were missing ('easily' fixed using winetricks and installing them)
On windows, all I had to do was install the focusrite drivers.
So for now, until these apps and devices have native support, I unfortunately am stuck with windows :(
A lot of these problems could be attributed to my computer specs, it's a bit older:
8gb ram (plan to upgrade to 16 which is the laptops max), GTX 1050 ti, 2.8-3.4ghz i7
60 fps when you were getting 20 on windows…? Wat? Were shaders still compiling on Windows?
Most probably: wrong driver + background windows updates + background windows telemetry + background windows downloading ads + background windows Superfetch (SysMain) + background trial version of McAfee with windows
Win 7 worked pretty well on my 2010 desktop [Care2Quad 4GB DDR2] until a few years ago, when I just switched to Linux and didn't care to look back.
Just built a pc from scratch and installing Manjaro was absolutely easy, the drivers just worked on install, no fiddling required.
It goes the opposite way when I have a problem and asking for help on linux
I went back to my Windows partition due to some performance issues with a specific game and it's pretty frustrating to deal with. Icons on my taskbar I can't get rid of, os hassling me about signing up for Microsoft products and overall a bit of a less polished experience than my Linux install out of the box.
Friend: *has computer problems
🤨
A lot of my friends are idiots lol
This but when people use proprietary apps.
...your brain will hate you
Nothing breaks because you can't get anything working enough to load
I saw the thumbnail and thought the image was of a transistor.
Same! Thought of some kind of SMD chip!
Two words:
Pro audio
as in professional audio equipment?
I just made the switch a few months ago and I've only seen memes about audio, never anyone actually asking how to fix audio and I also never encountered issues with audio myself. my usb audio interface works just fine, although it's not really professional. what's the big deal?
"Freind"?
What?
I prefer to explain in detail how to fix that and then say in one short sentence how easier I would fix it on Linux if it happened on Linux, which it obviously wouldn't. It's usually completely unbiased and I'm a popular person :)
"Now I have 99 problems."
This is just anecdotal, but if they're normal users and have a bit of money, advise them to get a mac. If not, they don't need your help.
