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  • i dont understand this at all.

    theres nothing stopping me from building stuff for the web. dude, i run a social media server named moist

    if your complaint is that 'users are hard to wrangle away from corporations', well, that has less to do with the internet and more to do with lazy/ignorant people.

    • i think the fact they use every psychology trick to hook and deceive them has some significant impact in this.

      • Yeah exactly, let's not wholly blame the victim (humanity) here, that shit's engineered to be addictive.

    • Please don't get me wrong: I have the greatest respect for all those who try against all odds. I just think that the idea of the Internet utopians was that the Internet would promote enlightenment, understanding and education. I simply have the impression that the opposite has generally happened.

      • It's not perfect, by any means, but it's definitely having a net positive effect. Traditionally, the right has sustained themselves by getting the next generation "on their side" through various tactics such as messing with education and such. It worked pre-internet because small towns were somewhat isolated and the flow of information easier to control.

        Gen Z, the first generation to grow up entirely online, has proven they aren't buying their shit this time around and I'd argue it's because of the Internet and all the information they can access regardless of if they're in some podunk town in bumfuck nowhere with like 300 people or a major city with millions

      • I know I thought that...but I was wrong.

        There are these tiny villages in Africa, where people take laptops or tablets and a huge stash of DVDs, and often there isn't even a roof just like 4 sticks poking up from the ground, maybe a tarp above it or possibly not even that. People come from hundreds of miles away, even walking, and they can watch videos from literal Harvard/Yale/etc. professors on whatever subject - engineering, lessions on how to speak English, biology, physics, etc. The barriers for people who truly WANT knowledge are pretty much entirely gone now, world-wide.

        Which lasted it seems for about a minute, while instead now, misinformation flows even more freely. Those setups that I mentioned above took DECADES to create, leveraging the technology available at each timepoint, and more than a little prep work to discuss with the recipient culture to let them know it is an option. And even then, situations such as Boco Haram continue to threaten their continuation, bc girls (& women) learning things is considered bad in that case.

        Thus, I learned that ignorance is extremely easy to cure (barely an inconvenience, if you know that famous YouTuber's catchphrase;-). Entire courses are available freely online, such as the Crash Course series...of series (US History, World History, literature, biology, chemistry, physics, check it out!), and nowadays the most dumbed-down explanations of extremely complex topics as you could ever want, see e.g. this video.

        The barriers nowadays to knowing things are "different". See e.g. the movie WALL-E, where the humans all just gave up and sat down... but then were never able to get back up again.

      • The same was said about books, but have you ever read a dollar-store romance novel? Or newspapers, but there's also The Sun.

        Everything that can be used for good, will also be used for evil. It's all there, but you have to wash out the shit yourself. That's what seperates the chaff from the wheat, so to speak.

  • I’ve been saying this for years. The internet was better when you had to be a little bit more intelligent than the average person to access it.

    Back when you needed knowledge of computers and software, modems, anti-virus, hardware etc, it kind of meant you needed a brain in your head to gain access. I’m not saying that made the internet an overtly-intelligent space, but it was more intelligent and measured than it is today.

    As soon a smart phones and data plans entered the game, you could be as dumb as a second coat of paint and gain access with a single button. That opened the flood gates for the stupid. Now the stupid are here en mass and internet is just a dumpster fire full of removed.

  • Wow that a whole lot of several different things jammed together. This thesis would make a good article or book but as a shower thought it doesn’t really stand on its own.

    • Sorry, it was really just a shower thought. I was thinking of two things: 1. the hopes that were placed in the Internet have, in my opinion, not materialized at all. Of course, there are many positive effects, but on the whole, the Internet has by no means lived up to its potential. 2. we are now faced with a situation where large corporations control most of the internet used by the general public. This brings with it responsibilities that I don't believe these corporations are living up to in any way. Hence the analogy with climate change: a change for the better would probably be possible, but there can be no solution as long as those who are largely responsible do not accept their responsibility. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this will never happen.

      • I see it a little differently. I think the internet has lived up to and exceeded its potential. It’s done things we couldn’t even have thought of back in the beginning. Or course as it grew, it became no longer just the playground of academics, scientists, and creatives. It now has huge commercial regions and is as mainstream as any other medium. It’s no longer solely a cool place where cool people are doing cool things. It is now also playing a role much like television for a bunch of dumb masses to be shown commercials by corporations.

        What’s worse is the unimagined downsides. Election misinformation. Hate group echo chambers. Terrorists using it to organize. We failed to imagine these things back in 1992 but maybe that really is just a failure of our imaginations, not the internet. I remember the heady dreams of democratization and universal access to quality information. It was all pretty naive. There were people who imagined television technology would be used for in-home education, too.

        But the bad stuff doesn’t erase the cool stuff. It is still enabling creativity and science, arguably moreso than the halcyon days of HTML 1.0. Did any of us ever imagine in 1992 that thousands of scientists could use images from hundreds of locations around the world to construct an image of a black hole, sharing data, tools, code, and ultimately the image itself over the internet? It’s just wild. Remote surgeries, AI, self driving cars, tracker tags, home automation… it all runs on the internet. A lot of it is scary, but it’s also fascinating and far beyond what we imagined 30 years ago.

        We used to talk about video conferencing like some far off future. Just because now we see it as mundane doesn’t mean the internet didn’t deliver on its potential. It delivered, and more. We just forget how cool a lot of it is, we were dumb to think it would be nothing but roses, and it’s changing life so much that it’s getting a bit scary.

        But didn’t live up to its potential? Nah.

        So I don’t really even see your posited problem, and this makes it hard for me to understand your point about a solution. I guess “corporations bad and no one will fix it,” is the bottom line? Well, that has nothing to do with the Internet and everything to do with capitalism. It’s the worst system there is, except all the others that have ever been tried. If you have any new ideas, we could sure use them.

142 comments