Next smartphone I buy, which one do you recommend?

I'm not sure what the GrapheneOS stock camera app does under the hood, but if it's not enough for you, you have the option of installing Google's Pixel Camera app from the Play/Aurora store if you want to compare. I don't imagine it would require Google Play Services to run on devices older than 8 since they don't have the AI integration, but I could be wrong. You can easily deny the app network permissions to ensure that the app isn't sending your photos to Google. As far as the AI features go on newer devices, I could see those requiring Google Services installed to work, but again, they're available through a Graphene mirror, run sandboxed for privacy, and can be denied network permissions. I'm satisfied with how my pictures turn out (7 Pro), but I may try Pixel Camera out just to see what the difference is.

It's been a couple years since I tried the graphene camera, but (at the time) it's essentially trash in comparison to the Google camera. I just use the gCam without internet permissions and call it a day.

But I'm not hardcore tin-foil 'the NSA will use your office mirrors reflection to precisely heat up a 2mm space on the side of your phone that somehow enables Bluetooth and with that the G + glowy bois will exfiltrate your data at 10Kb/s'. I want additional security hardening and some privacy additions, but I also use the play services and store, like a typical user. Yada yada threat model yada yada - I just want my phone to simply function at the end of the day. Middle of the road, if you will, between stock os users and the guy that's now boarding up all his windows because of the 2mm Bluetooth mystery vulnerability.

Unknown about the claimed AI features - my 8 pro is in transit. But I can check in a few days, if interested.

It's not supported. According to the devs rooting defeats the purpose of Graphene OS.

It looks like the verified boot security feature of Graphene effectively prevents rooting the OS. I understand wanting root access, it does provide some nice features, but I don't have any need for it. I don't have any bloatware embedded to remove, and I don't need to mod any system apps, so I haven't looked into it much. I know the dev says it isn't planned because it massively increases attack surface, which I personally agree with, but it would be nice to have the option via a separate version of the OS or something. If you need root access, I would suggest looking into LineageOS. It's similar in privacy to Graphene and last I knew could be rooted. Graphene is very focused on security as well as privacy, and for me is a best of both worlds, but if you want to modify the system for various power-user type features, it might not be for you.

You can root on GrapheneOS. You do it exactly the same way you'd do it for the stock Google ROM:

1. Have an unlocked bootloader. Yes, this means that it """defeats the purpose of GrapheneOS""", if the purpose of GrapheneOS isn't for you to avoid Google's privacy nightmare. I use GrapheneOS for privacy moreso than security, and not being able to block ads properly is irritating.
2. Install the Magisk app.
3. Extract the boot.img from the GrapheneOS image and patch within Magisk.
4. Flash the patched boot image in the bootloader.

The main annoyance with this is that you'll have to do that dance every month when a security patch gets released, but for me, it's better than vomiting from exposure to ads on mobile.

Why? By default gapps doesn't come with ROMs. Its usually more work to install gapps.

GrapheneOS, a privacy/security focused operating system is compatible with a limited amount of devices. The pixel series is part of those compatible devices.

They use Graphene. That's the point. Pixels are unfortunately the only supported devices. That's why I won't use Graphene as I would never support google. A pity, many do

People or rather I didn't buy pixel as its more privacy friendly but its the only one available here that let's me install another ROM on day 1 without voiding warranty. And grapheneos being one of the best privacy focused ROM only available for pixel and that pretty much every ROM is available on pixel is another reason. I was basically forced into buying a google product as everyone else void warranty on unlocking boot loader or they don't have much of a custom ROM scene.

old phones have batteries that are meant to last

Not killing, but degrades in performance because batteries have a limited amount of charge cycles. The more intensive you use your phone, the faster the battery degrades

You dont have to buy straight from Google, just literally from anywhere else than Verizon.

And if your bootloader is unlocked, VZ is likely to lock you out of VoLTE/HD Voice/WiFi calling/etc.

I mean, you could go to T-Mobile who don't currently play these specific games with devices, but then you're trading coverage for features/freedom.

All carriers, wired and wireless, need to be regulated as DUMB PIPES. Title 2 for everyone. That's what we're paying for: Not "the Verizon experience" or "the pride and accomplishment of being an AT&T customer." Let me buy a phone, and do with it whatever it is technologically capable of doing on your network. The network provider doesn't need to provide any Android/iOS tech support if they keep it simple and stay out of the customer-fuckery business.

Nope. Honestly, I stopped tinkering with that stuff altogether ages ago. It's a candybar that gives me text messages and takes photos, I don't need to make it my own.

Addition:

• several unsolved (hardware) issues in the past
• security patches are far too late
• 8 years support
• Using the promoted /e/ results in loss of support (you habe to flash back FairphoneOS). Maybe this has changed as they are sellig phones with preinstalled /e/ by themselves
• Screws in the FP4 where very low in quality
• above-average batterie drain

• no bloatware

Does it come without GApps? Most people don't need half of those

Well, the only viable alternative then seems to be some sort of Linux phone, then.

The bottom line is that GrapheneOS is the most security-focused mobile operating system available, and the Google Pixel is pretty well the only mainstream phone with an unlockable bootloader.

If Alphabet were to ever lock down the Pixel's bootloader, the GOS devs would undoubtedly jump ship to a lesser available platform in order to continue the project. But until then, no other hardware comes close with respect to embedded security.

Buy a pixel off marketplace then. You can brag about saving e-waste.

Google isn't a bad company, just a product of poor regulation. They have amazing engineers and produce valuable hardware and that should be praised.

Its the business side of things which needs massive regulation and an ethics check.

GrapheneOS is built to work with a locked bootloader, in fact, relocking the bootloader is a step in the installation guide. It's not rooted by default and the GOS team highly recommends against rooting, all apps should work as long as they only require SafetyNet basic integrity. If they require full integrity, they won't work on GrapheneOS because the OS has to be manually whitelisted by Google in order to pass the full integrity check. Most apps (including banking or government apps) only mandate basic integrity though, full integrity is rarely required. It should definitely work better than LineageOS.

As cool as the technology is, I wouldn't trust Starlink to handle my breakfast order. It's leadership is corrupt, arrogant, and evil. You can find all sorts of news stories about it online.

I have never heard of phone updates installing bloatware. The only time bloatware is present is when you first use the phone

I don't think that's true. From XDA forums, you can choose to disable the app or completely remove it. I have completely destroyed the system from uninstalling critical apps. I have had to do a complete factory reset due to uninstalling core apps. No root whatsoever.

I know the mantra

Flash a third party OS like Graphene/Lineage/DivestOS. No more bloat.

A Pixel is rootable, which would enable you to remove whatever you want. Though I prefer starting clean.

Only buy the Pixel if you are going to install GrapheneOS on it. GrapheneOS is de-googled and has no bloat pre-installed.

Pixel is stock android and is guaranteed to not have bloat unless some carrier is involved in it. Whenever anyone here suggests pixel they are definitely doing it for custom ROM like grapheneos and its pointless to buy otherwise.

Just avoid carrier-branded phones. Those are often boot locked.

I'm interested in reading about those. Dou you have a link or a list of some of those issues?

I forgot about that, mine had Facebook, but it didnt come back with updates.

You nay be able to disable the installer that reinstalls those apps.

Check out

https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater

Yeah the whole iMessage thing wasn't really what I cared about, given that it's not a great look for them.

More so all the ex-oneplus talent that they have on staff to make a good quality product.

I've never heard of this company before the past week, and I'm seeing it everywhere now. I'm also really annoyed with this trend of companies appropriating random fucking words instead of using actual names.

Well you won't be able to use it at all even if you need it, but if that works for you, go nuts.

I have been daily-driving one for more than three years now, and totally happy with it. (with some caveats, some work and nerve-wracking moments, but that's the exciting lot of the continous learning of free/libre computing...)

Thank you for sharing your insights and valuable information. I appreciate the effort you put into your response. However, I sense a potential bias in your answer, particularly concerning the original question posed by the OP.

The OP was seeking advice on a smartphone without bloatware and with a high level of customizability, which I believe is the central focus of the discussion.

While I understand that security updates may be a concern for some users, it's worth noting that as of the October release notes (https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/releases/-/releases/v1.16-s), the integration of security fixes extends up to September.

Regarding support, I recommended the Murena phone, which comes with /e/OS out of the box and is based on the Fairphone + /e/OS combination. It's important to clarify that Murena is a commercial French company, meaning that support comes from them rather than directly from Fairphone. However, this arrangement offers the benefit of commercial protection, including a 2-year warranty. I also feel a little bit unfair the comment about support, as I think that installing GrapheneOS on any device will probably cut you from support from hardware and you will rely one GrapheneOS, that I'm sure has a very good support, but doesn't have any obligation to replace the device is a problem occur.

I also want to express my gratitude for the link you provided (https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt). Additionally, based on my personal experience, none of the mentioned bugs have affected me. This could be attributed to my use of the F-Droid store, allowing me to benefit from updates available there as well.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I hope this further clarifies the points discussed. I know that I have a specific usage of my phone, but I think the value of my proposal remains.

Yes it is the same hardware. Only provided by a company preloaded with /e/OS. It is not easier to repair, it is the same.

I carry an iPhone for work, corp IT manages it, I use little more than comm stuff there, so theres no advantage to having an Android. (Before that my work phone was a blackberry, because I need work calls, email, messaging, etc to just work, and you couldn't beat the battery life).

My personal is Android, because I want the tools I can use there.

Two very different use-cases.

And I really dislike iOS UI/UX, the limitations are very constricting. But for the basics it "just works", but it isn't something to recommend for privacy.

Its not hard to flash a rom these days, unlike ten years ago.

Now developers post instructions for each device type. Look at Lineage, Graphene, DivestOS. Very good instructions from all of them, including installing ADB on Windows or Linux.

Of the dozens (hundreds?) of times I've flashed over the years, I've bricked 1 device, and that was from experimenting and not following instructions, I knew it was risky.

And with Pixel it's about as straightforward as it gets.

This is the privacy community, I wouldn't consider iOS appropriate here at all, since you really can't do anything to limit the data collection. Especially not for a "what phone should I get" question. If someone already has an iPhone, asking what you can do is a good question ("not much" is the answer you'll get).

Is it better out if the box than most Androids? Probably, maybe, depending on how that's defined. But I can quickly make most Androids far better than iOS, even ones with a lot of vendor bloat.

For example, I recently cleaned up a Verizon Samsung just using the Universal Android Debloat Tool. This is stuff I used to do manually with ADB.

Then adding a VPN and I could restrict apps calling home and bypass Google DNS.

You can even disable google services, play, etc, and just don't use a google acccount on the phone.

https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater