1y ago

Jragon

166 comments

Do y'all actually pronounce dragon with a j sound? How???
- English phonology, American English dialects' (and other dialects') /r/ is usually pronounced retracted, post-alveolar/pre-palatal (usually bunched/molar), transcribed something like [ɹ̠ᶹ], so it causes alveolar consonants in the same cluster to retract/palatalize, usually into a post-alveolar affricate ([d͡ʒ] – the "j" sound for voiced stop /d/, [t͡ʃ] – the "ch" sound for voiceless stop /t/, [ʃ] – the "sh" sound for voiceless fricative /s/). The term would be assimilation (of place of articulation).
  "Dragon" /dræ.gən/ -> [dɹ̠æ.ɡɪ̈n] -> [d̠ʒɹ̠æ.ɡ(ɪ̈)n]
  You can see the same thing with words like "tree" /tri/ -> [t̠ʃɹ̠i] or even "street" /strit/ -> [ʃt̠ɹ̠it]
  Would explain simpler but can't, break ends now, just know its because consonant pronounced in different place in mouth is conforming to being pronounced in the same place in mouth as other consonant that is right beside it (like with "in-" vs "im-", "impractical", which notably isn't "inpractical", or "incandescent" which notably isn't "imcandascent", or "indecisive" etc. etc.)
  
  This explanation makes me feel stupid
  
  Okay, I think I get it. When I say "dr-" the r is made with the tip of my tongue just behind my front teeth, but when I say "jr-" (like in badger), the r is made with the middle of my tounge in the middle of my mouth. Neat!
  
  I love seeing linguists on Lemmy. Wish we had a bigger community.
  To put it in layman's terms just focus on explaining that J is often [d͡ʒ] which already has a D sound in it.
  
  you've written tree as "tshree" there.
  
  Hey there now. We aint knowing any of your elvish. Best keep that to yourself, ya understand?
- Gragon
  
  Don't start the gif/jif wars again.
- Жragon (ZHragon)
  
  I think this is how you’re supposed to say gif
  
  Джragon (dZHragon = jragon)
- I'm thinking it's a regional thing and this guy is from my general region, it's totally a thing out here. The letter "T" is really only useful on paper, people use "D" when they speak for the most part for "T" (except for T's followed by an "h"), and "J" is any "D" when followed by an "r". Side note, i found it jarring when I was younger and saw a Superman cartoon for the first time, and all the characters were pronouncing "Luthor" as "Luthor", not "Luther"
  
  Haha same here. And to add onto the Luthor bit, everyone I know pronounces "-or" and "-er" words as "-ir". Pretty much everybody agrees it sounds stupid, but nobody has the power to stop it.
- Jereggin for sure
- I sort of roll the bounce of the "d" in "j" into the r
- I didn't think so either till I pronounced it out loud. WTF is going on?
- Pretend like you're french: j'ragon. It's the second G in garage or however you would say au jou sauce.
  eta: if you're pronouncing dragon and jragon the same, I'm really concerned and alarmed.
  
  In most Americans accents I think "Dragon" and "Jragon" would be indistinguishable.
  
  French would be like /ʒragon/ and English would be /dʒragon/

Too many jrux
- Jrove him to madness.
  
  What a tradedy 😔
- Jaringly, Jave jid jeclare,
  jreadfully jaft to jare
  To jub 'jragon' with 'J',
  jiminishing its jisplay!
  joesn't jecency in jialogue care?

Hey smack me if you said 'dragon" and " jragon" out loud.
- I'm just gonna give you a small flick on the ear since I tried but am physically unable to pronounce "jragon".
- Airplane.gif
- I tried it as well 🤷... sounds almost the same, except the one with the J is a bit more rough when prounouncing the first letter.
  
  Guess you were dropped too 🤷
- SMACK

How I wish for the day English decides to upend everything and go phonetic with a truncated alphabet and word modernization.
We'd then go to World Standard Time. It's 13:00 everywhere, not just in specific time zones. We then go to a Year 12023 Human Era International Fixed calendar.
- I'm with you for the alphabet and human era, but what's the thing about timezones? We'd still have to keep track of each area's normal waking/business hours, but it'd be less standardized and harder to remember unless there's something I'm missing.
  
  The time zone thing means if the time on your clock reads 00:00 hours, it's 00:00 hours everywhere.
  That means if I say I have a meeting at 14:00 with someone in China while I live in the USA, there's no conversion. It's 14:00 everywhere. Every clock reads the same. I know when to be on the call.
  All it does is change what time people arbitrarily 'Get up', 'Fall asleep', 'start school' etc.
  Say we arbitrarily say 00:00 is what 'midnight' would be in Britain at the Prime Meridian.
  That means nothing really changes for Britain. But in Central Time USA, 00:00 means it's when we're just starting dinner.
  No daylight savings times anywhere. Work places can set their own work times however they want. Nobody gets confused about having to convert time to different time zones for logistics which is the biggest benefit. If the ISS says it'll be over New York City at 13:37, I'll know exactly when to turn on my HAM radio.
  I'd wake up at 13:00, get breakfast, be into work at 14:00. Get home at 22:00, etc.
  
  Plus a bunch of people would have the day turn over into the next day in the middle of the work day, which would be pretty inconvenient.
- ˈwʊdnt ɪt biː ˈbɛtə ʤʌst tuː juːz aɪ-piː-eɪ fɔːr ɔːl ˈlæŋɡwɪʤɪz ðɛn?
  
  aɪ noː jɚ ˈbiːɪŋ fəˈsiːʃəs, bʌt ˈɪŋglɪʃ ˈvɑʊəlz ɛsˈpɛʃəli kən biː ə ˈɹiːəl ˈklʌstɚfʌk. ɪf ə wɚd ɪz tə biː ˌjunɪˈvɚsəli ˈɹɛkəgnaɪzd baɪ ɪts ˈspɛlɪŋ, ðɛn ðə ˈspɛlɪŋ wɪl nɑt ˈfeɪθfəli ˌɹɛpɹɪˈzɛnt mɛni ˈpiplz pɹəˌnʌnsiˈeɪʃənz... so nɑʊ ju hæv ðə seɪm ˈpɹɑbləm æz bəˈfoɹ ɛkˈsɛpt wɪθ ˈhɑrdɚ-tə-taɪp ˈlɛtɚz.
  ʃwɑ ɪn pɑɹˈtɪkulɚ ɪz ə hoːl ˈʃɪtʃoː ɑn ɪts oːn
  ɑn ðæt noːt, gɛs weɹ aɪ gɹuː ʌp :)
  
  Not really. There's accents and things that mess that up.
  
  Not really, because of accent differences. The best you could do is account for all phonemes distinguished across standardized varieties, regardless of their phonetic realization. Of course, you couldn't possibly account for all of them (e.g. distinguishing the Australian /æ/ vs /æː/ would be troublesome for British and American speakers).
  Hīr'z æn icsperimentăl sistăm ðæt s̄ūd würc ăcros SSBI (SSBE) ænd DĂ (GAmerican). Æz jū cæn sī, homăfounz ār spelt aidenticăly, wīc fōrmz ārn't rităn æt ōl, ænd plein vauălz ār dz̄enărăly jūz'd wið ðēr Roumæns saundz.
  Strüt-Fut-Gūs-Cjur-Für Cit-Flīs-Nīr-Fir-Hæpy Dres-Feis-Scwēr-Fern Træp-Mauþ-Prais-Baþ-Pām-Stārt Cloþ-Ts̄ois-Löt-Þōt-Nōrþ Cömă-Letăr (tuc ðæt wün from Roumeiniăn)
- How I wish for the day English decides to upend everything and go phonetic with a truncated alphabet and word modernization.
  Also, drop the whole uppercase and lowercase nonsense. Just pick one!
  
  UPPERCASE IT IS, WE LOUD NOW
  
  Not gonna lie, I like the cases if only to make scanning for proper nouns easier. The capital letters stick out. Maybe keep caps only for proper nouns.
- That's a neat way to travel into the future 👍.
- man like a billion people over 6 continents speak English. HTF is that gonna happen? Whole thing is crowd sourced as fuck.
- English could never go phonetic because of regional differences
  
  Why would that change anything? Standard English is already the bar which it's based on. Do you think other phonetic languages like Korean don't have dialects?
  Just because the UK's ability to speak English is fucked doesn't mean the written language doesn't have to be lol.
- 13 month calendar pleeeease. Every holiday can be on Friday or Monday.

Imajin Jragons
- The spelling of someone who's breathing in the chemicals

What accent is this? In mine the D is hard and it sounds different
- I believe it's called affrication -- changing a stop to a fricative.
  T can become "ch", and d can become a "j" sound.
  This can happen in some North American accents when you have a T or D followed by an r or a y sound.
  Train might sound like Chrain*, Drain might sound like Jrain.
  My favourite is "Tuesday", where some people add a y before the "oo" sound, and it becomes "Chewsday". Or "Chewsdi" if they shorten the "day" to "dee".
  The "y" before "oo" can also happen in words like news and tube, giving us a potential for "Chyoob" instead of "tube".
  I've found that t to ch before r is more common among Gen X and younger, and Boomers tend to only make the change before y. But Gen X and younger tend to not have the y in words like "tube", so that comes up less often.
  D to J before r seems to be pretty common in all ages.
  Getting people to hear the difference can be hard, especially if they're self conscious about it. If you can get someone to say "Dane" and "Drain" (without saying the words yourself), then you can probably hear the difference...as long as they don't know that you're listening for a dr => jr sound change. Most people, even those who make tr => chr and dr => jr naturally are still capable of producing pure "tr" and "dr" if they try.
  
  TLDR - english accents allow for grotesque changes in phonetics and think it's ok
  
  I never noticed that since I'm from the North East, but that definitely comes from our British ancestors. I always laugh at Simon Whistler (from his many YouTube channels) when he says "tube" because it definitely sounds like "chewb" 😂
- TMI
  
  You don't want to hear about my hard D? Why not? Is there some reason why I shouldn't talk about it? Very well, would you like me to show you it?
- This is a great video explaining the phenomenon
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  This
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
- Great Plains, western and north.

giragon

Jragon deez nuts on your face.
- jeez nuts.

English language doesn't have an alphabet - change my mind (especially british, but american only made one step in the right direction and then stopped)
- English is a pictographic language with 26 radicals https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/pronounce
  
  But it's really not a fun fact
  
  Exactly! That's the most appropriate description!
  
  Literal anglo runes work better lol... To the point that we added some to our Latin alphabet (U, J)

I don't know why I can actually tell the difference phonetically between "dragon" and "jragon", maybe I just pronounce things weirdly.
- I think it's because d and j are different letters and are pronounced different.
  
  Maybe the D being aspirated sounds similar to what sound the J makes.
- https://youtu.be/RRs103ETh2Q?si=IxHkZH2MaKLAxj49
  
  Oh. Yeah I actually never noticed this.
  Jk, one of my favorite YouTubers says iChoons just for fun.
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  https://piped.video/RRs103ETh2Q?si=IxHkZH2MaKLAxj49
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
  
  I think this is the more relevant one for jragon: https://youtu.be/F2X1pKEHIYw?si=fhpyRYsQ8HuJ3YKs
  Super interesting stuff.

jropped

Oh shit he is right
- Shut up and pass the pasghetti.
  
  pusjedi
- Not in my accent.

J is often /d3/ in English so yea there's a D
- Джрагон... Cyrillic makes so much more sense, why the heck did we have to get stuck with Latin (+ 2 runes)...?
  
  You must speak Russian or similar. Always nice to see some unexpected Cyrillic.

In high school, I wrote a play for my creative writing class where I named the main character Jrue—named after Jrue Holiday, one of my favorite basketball players.
I remember the teacher got a kick out of it.

Geesus... You're write!
- *your

dragoj

Jungeons and Jragons
- Roll the jice. 1J20 to attack.

drajon

I'm sure the Swedes would find a way yo fuck it up. "Yeah-ragon" or "Ji-ragon" or something.

Jropped*

deuce, dews, jews, juice
- lead, led
  don, dawn
  but, butt
  you, yew
  so, sow, sew, soul
  pain, pane, Payne
  John, Jon, Jean, Jaune
  Was only gonna due the first example butt turns out English has a lot of these.
  
  It really depends on accent. For me, half of these sound very different.