Microsoft lays hands on login data: Beware of the new Outlook
The free new Outlook replaces Mail in Windows, and later also the classic Outlook. It sends secret credentials to Microsoft servers.
It’s basically just their Outlook web app. It offers no extra function, and breaks a LOT of old functionality.
There’s a registry key to turn off the button.
The Android app has done this for years too.
After connecting my (non Microsoft) email account to the Outlook Android app I noticed the login location was geolocated in the USA... I live in Australia.
Unfortunately there's no way to turn it off.
I mean, duh!!
It’s a web version wrapped in some god-awful semi-native wrapper. Everything the app does is stored on the server. So, yes, like gmail, if you give it access to another IMAP account, the password is stored on the server BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS.
This isn’t a scandal. It shouldn’t be news.
The bigger discussion why are we pretending a server driven mail client is local?
That is the discussion. Microsoft is pretending by making it the upgrade path for two products which actually are local, and hoping users won't notice.
At work I've been trying to use the new Outlook but the biggest gripe (other than this new news) is that it's once again, a fucking Electron app and a lot of features have been cut.
I work at an MSP and people have mistakenly changed to the new Outlook, and then find things like their local mail rules stop working (because it doesn't support those anymore), their custom accounting software that would compose an email in Outlook straight up won't do that with new Outlook, for businesses it's going to wreak havoc if Microsoft just force updates everyone.
Thunderbird ftw
People complain about Apple a lot but I think Microsoft is a much more annoying company and it is very difficult to avoid their products/services. Same with google
There’s definitely things to dislike about Apple, but a lot of the complaining just feels like some childish console war.
Sure, if you only listen to and care about such petulant complaining.
There are actual gripes to be had that have broader implications.
What are the more "trustworthy" email clients? Thunderbird still good?
the recent revamp of thunderbird is really good.
em client (commercial product, but free for some--2 mail accounts, home use only) is also a solid choice.
not just login credentials, but all your mail, too, even if you aren't using a microsoft-hosted mail account.
I don't get why people still use Microsoft services. How many data privacy scandals do we need, so they understand? Or do they still not care?
Because they're forced to? They own a large slice of enterprise.
In taking about personal email. I also use outlook at work because I'm forced to, but I would never let these bastards touch my private Mails.
It's insanely cheap for what you get
Business wise it's a no brainer
It's honestly pretty expensive compared to the alternatives. If you compare a business setup with windows plus office etc plus the support fee you can get all of that for free plus a much lower support fee from a variety of independent companies with Linux and libreoffice. The typical office worker really doesn't need the few corner cases where MS office maybe has an advantage. Honestly for a business I would even go with Google tools. Same data privacy issues, but at least the product works great. MS office in the cloud is hot garbage.
Because my line of work means I working corporations, and they ALWAYS run everything on the big names, Microsoft and Oracle.
At home, I have choice. At work, I must swallow.
At home, I have choice. At work, I must swallow.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
And at work I don’t really care. It’s not my data they are “looking” at. It’s my employers.
I guess they won’t lose any corporate customers over this. The pure shit that it outlooks hasn’t scared anyone away yet.
I tried to delete ~7k emails today. I had to kill the process since it stopped responding. Wtf?
Even with search engines you can basically choose the Google index, the Microsoft index or the Amazon index
Yeah but at least Google offers a good search engine while sniffing all your data. Microsoft products are usually hot garbage, sniff your data and then loose it. Also what is the Amazon index?
I have a government job (shocking to me still) and everything is on Exchange and 365. I don't know why, other than "nobody ever got fired for recommending IBM."
Common Microsoft L
Ubiquitous Microsoft L
I wish I was a good enough dev to write a swift keys replacement. There's AnySoftKeyboard available, and they're doing an amazing job with swipe input which I prefer, but there's only so much one person can do.
FlorisBoard
Gesture typing is still in early development. The suggestions bar doesn't work yet so it's really hard to use. Nevertheless, looks promising, and it looks like development is starting back up. I'll keep an eye on it.
I have yet to find an open-source keyboard with gesture typing that is anywhere near as usable as Gboard, unfortunately.
Yet another reason to use Thunderbird or Evolution. There must finally be mobile devices with Linux that are usable.
Both of those are usable but that's about it. I use Evolution because it integrates with online accounts service well and I don't have to mine for contacts, but overall it's a sorry state of email clients in Linux world. Geary had nice ideas for a while, but it's also dreadfully optimized and development has kind of stopped.
It's also not such an easy to problem to solve either. Whole Gnome ecosystem got a lot better with new and modern applications with sleek designs, but email clients remain a pain in the ass.
It's just outrageous that we're in 202-almost-4 and mail is still in use the way it is.
Seriously, the fix has been available for almost 30 years, no one has been able - or willing - to popularize it. Hmmm.
What's the issue with mail?
What's the fix?
I'm seeing many people recommend Thunderbird. Let me enlightnen you.
I personally never trust any software that is not secure and private by default. Mozilla Corp is a for-profit corporation that makes nearly a Billion dollars in cooperation with Google monetizing data about your life. Thunderbird is Mozilla and if you setup with the Wizard, it already got the basics about your email life even if you disable it later.
Thunderbird Not Private by Default
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-telemetry
Disabling Telemetry
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/protect-your-thunderbird-passwords-primary-password
17 Criticial or High Vulnerabilies this year alone
Conclusion
If email security and privacy means a lot to you, or even computer security and privacy, your best options are to use BSD/UNIX/Void/Alpine and Claws-Mail. That is just the way the cookie crumbles in 2023.
Can someone respond to this who is able to reasonably challenge this view(s)?
It's true that Mozilla does collect telemetry and that Mozilla Corp is for profit, however Mozilla Corp is owned by Mozilla Foundation. That ownership structure is either a way to get around limitations on non profits, or its an opportunity for the Foundation to directly influence the Corp to be better.
However, I'll still use Firefox/Thunderbird because: Usage stats such as number of accounts or filters is in no way comparable to my username and password. One is basic metadata and stats, the other is a massive risk. You can opt out of the telemetry, the only way to opt out of sharing your password is to not use the new Outlook.
I take a more pragmatic approach to privacy based on my trust. I understand the value of telemetry, but change it depending on the company. Big Tech I have less trust in, Mozilla, while they have issues, are on average far better for privacy vs big tech.
As a developer, I understand the value of telemetry and the risks that come with collecting any data. I pick Firefox because it challenges the homogeney of Google's influence and it looks like I'm going to pick Thunderbird because I' haven't seen a better option.
Honestly I'm glad they highlighted the telemetry. I went through the local report about what's included and while it's not an upsetting level of detail, it's more comprehensive than I would have opted in to if asked.
Still, as sibling points out it's in a completely different league from slurping up your IMAP creds, something which has always been local-only data. This is the second time I know of recently where MS has trampled on this kind of local-only expectation - the other was Edge defaulting to sending the contents of textboxes you're filling out on webpages to the MS cloud for spelling and grammar checks. Thunderbird is still a sound recommendation, and unlike Microsoft, I trust that if I uncheck the telemetry box they're not going to try to get me some other way.
Thunderbird doesn’t passphrase-protect your PGP key. Though you can set a general password… For something less important, its OpenPGP may be convenient, given that if you send/receive email normally, there is metadata problem anyway. But if you need to play it safe, you may want to use gpg offline and paste ascii.
Increasingly more and more “phoning home” is not exactly comfortable, either: thunderbird-settings.thunderbird(.)net location.services.mozilla(.)com addons.thunderbird(.)net versioncheck.addons.thunderbird(.)net services.addons.thunderbird(.)net, etc. Perhaps people today, both users and developers, feel something like this is normal, because things were already more or less like this when they were born.
Re: Micro$oft - It might be that after raped by Google, the society has been desensitized and stopped feeling anything about “minor details.” Why worrying now? You use a Windows 10 passport account (what is it called?) just to log on to “your own” computer and also a Gmail account anyway, right? So bad news is, your privacy is almost zero already.
