1y ago

Circle of life

101 comments

I think about this a lot actually. That whole new kind of fucked up shows us that our parents had good intentions, they thought they were doing better.
- I, too, thought a lot about this.
  Having kids now and reflecting on my childhood, it's extremely obvious that my parents truly had the best intentions and tried their best.
  But they, too, are fallible and made mistakes.
  Some of those mistakes were due to a lack of knowledge or bad advice they received. I think that nowadays, thanks to the internet, it's quite feasible to get much better advice. On the other hand, there is also a lot of disinformation.
  I am optimistic that each generation will get better, because knowledge tends to accumulate and humanity tends to improve over time.
  But perfection is still far away in a distant future.
  
  I am optimistic that each generation will get better,
  I thought this too but then it didn't in a lot of ways and did in some. If we do our best and try to spread that to our kids and our circles, that's the only way. I never in a million years thought we would go so far backwards on so many issues like civil rights, abortion and worker's rights. I know it would be a roller coaster but I didn't think the dips would be that far down.
  
  I’m convinced that the intentions you have don’t mater that much. It’s how well you’ve managed to solve your own problems that determines how fucked up your kid is going to be.
- It doesn't make sense when you're young .... but the older you get, the more you realize that everyone is just making shit up as they go along.
  It's made me realize after a long life that my parents were no smarter (or no dumber) than me.
  It's just that as children, we look up to our parents and think that they should be smarter than everyone else but in reality, they never were. It doesn't mean that they were dumb either ... it's just that people are people, including your parents.
  
  If people remembered their parents are people too, lots of shit would make sense pretty fast to everyone in the world
- Absolutely, my mother thought she was doing great by parenting me to live the childhood she never could, problem was, I was my own person, and absolutely not interested in experiencing all the things she never could.
  My dad on the other hand treated me akin to a roommate (his words), which is not ideal for a teenager trying to learn basic life skills.
  
  I don't have kids but a lot of my friends do, I have hope for that generation of kids.
- I wish I could adopt the mindset of them having good intentions and whatnot, but sometimes parents really shouldn't have been parents and are just truly shitty people.
  
  I didn't mean to discount that experience. My parents were shitty sometimes but they really did love us, I know that's not always the case.
- To me it seems late 90s/early 2000s parents went overboard with helicopter parenting and ignored kids online presence due to their lack of understanding of the Internet.
  Then late 00s 10s parents doubled down on Internet and tech ignorance.

am i the only one who had pretty good parents?
Yeah they're not perfect but like the biggest mistake they made was not getting me diagnosed for autism as a kid, and that's not really something i blame them for since it's really a societal problem and you can't feasibly handle something you've heard about in passing twice in your entire life..
Like it's not rocket science, treat your kids like actual human beings and you're a good way toward being a good parent.
- It's weird, I think my parents did a fine job of raising me and my brother, even though my father was a raging (but functioning) alcoholic and my mother was (is) manic-depressive. They made sure we were taken care of, put us both through expensive college, and have always been there for us whenever we needed anything. But my brother decided long ago (thanks to therapy) that our upbringing was somehow traumatic and he harbors enormous anger and resentment towards our parents (although he keeps this mostly hidden from them). He has consciously chosen to raise his own children basically the opposite of how our parents did, but they have basically turned out exactly like him: socially awkward, depressed and in terrible physical shape. I asked him whether he blames himself for their problems since he blames our parents for his, and it turns out no, he blames our parents for his children's problems, too.
  
  Everyone has problems. And everyone thinks they are above them and have moved past them. I think it's more realistic to just love your kids and hope that you do just a little bit better than your parents did. Just like every generation is smarter than the last maybe in time the planet will be less fucked up.
  
  You know your situation better than anyone so feel free to ignore this if I'm way off base.
  But I'm guessing two things here:
  Your parents were able to provide you with things you needed as a child. Perhaps things like college and clothes on your back were the things you needed to grow into a fulfilled and happy person. But maybe your brother needed your mom to control her emotions better during an episode. Maybe he needed your dad to be predictable and consistent instead of drinking and behaving in ways that were irritating or unpredictable from a child's perspective.
  You might not be fully acknowledging some of the things they did (or didn't do) that made you feel bad when you were little. It doesn't have to be physical abuse for it to have an impact on you. We know now that children form attachment styles at least partially based on how their parents responded to their cries during infancy. Kids can be amazingly resilient, but also incredibly delicate.
  Also, the odds that they treated you differently based on birth order, their age when they had each of you, gender, your personalities, etc. is very high.
  You should ask your brother what really bothers him deep down. I'll bet you get some tears and probably some very deep, very impactful memories/feelings about your parents.
  If you asked my younger, more relaxed brother about our parents, he would say, "Yeah man dad's a dick for drinking and bailing on us, and mom likes to guilt trip us but oh well."
  I would be the one to explain how their constant fighting, dad's drinking/drugging, mom's emotional manipulation and authoritarian parenting, etc. made me feel deeply unsafe and insecure as a child. I felt bad about myself and my life. I wished I could get a letter from Hogwarts more than anything. And when our father got so into drugs that he became absent completely, I felt lonely and abandoned. Took me many years to make peace with it and realize he was really sick and struggling.
  The thing is, I suspect that I've actually come a lot further in my healing than my brother has. I don't think he's aware of some of the things he does or why he does them. Any chance your brother is actually onto something here?
  
  Wow, this is kind of fascinating. If anything it points to nature over nurture, which I would think your brother would find a relief.
- You'd be surprised how many parents struggle with even basic stuff like "don't scream at your child all of the time". It should be easy and common sense, and yet so many fail at this..
  
  man i don't even understand why they do that, it very obviously doesn't work and means that when you actually need to shout at the child they'll ignore it since you always shout at them
  oftentimes it's straight up more effective (though maybe not quite the correct option) to simply ignore them, which i would think is easier than screaming, but what do i know
- My parents are great as well. Very supportive and loving.
- My parents were top notch but I was a fucking monster and made their lives hell, and I would not have blamed them for beating the fuck out of me.
  I too could have used a 'sperg diagnosis, and they probably could have fostered my civil engineering and architectual design traits better, or given me more books on the subject. From as early as I can remember, I was designing and building detailed models of cities from whatever I could get my hands on. Sand, twigs, blocks of wood from dads carpentry business, cotton thread from mums sewing kit for powerlines, etc. I feel like that was a missed opportunity, now that I work in tech. But at least I have Factorio to scratch that itch.

I can stop this. I can just never have kids.
- Yes, but that alone won't heal someone's trauma.
  
  It will heal in death. Our deaths. And then no one will be traumatised ever again! Because no more humans exist! The system is perfect!
  Edit: I seem to have had a stroke: If we do not have children, only THEN will no one be traumatised again. Please excuse my sieve of a brain.
- Break the cycle,if you'd like to, and go /c/childfree @lemmy.world (community reoated links also at childfree.cc.).✨

My dad died recently.
He was definitely a flawed man, and there were tons of problems between the two of us over the years. But I also heard plenty of stories about how he grew up, and about his parents—both from my dad and from other family members. Without a doubt, he managed to be a better person than his parents, and a better parent to me than his parents were to him. They were straight-up cruel to him, whether physically or simply using him for the family's gain.
That doesn't absolve everything, and I've still got plenty of my own issues. But what I respect most of him, in hindsight, is that he played the hand he was dealt and managed to be a better man. Not perfect, but better. I want to do the same.
Sorry for being sappy, it's only been a couple of weeks. I also know that this doesn't apply to everyone, since some parents are indefensibly cruel and abusive. In general, though, I hope people can be easy on each other, easy on themselves, and stop letting "perfect" be the enemy of "good."
- I’m very sorry for your loss. it’s really touching to see how much you understand him and accept his imperfections. May your grieving be as smooth or intense as you need it to be.
  
  Thank you. The grieving has actually been both smooth & intense, with ups & downs, but I'm gradually doing better, as is my mom.
  But anyway, the meme is accurate. :P I just have a more sensitive feeling about it given recent events.

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.   
    They may not mean to, but they do.   
They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,   
Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.
- Well i do agree with this. The best way to win the game is by not playing at all.
- Easily one of my favorite poems. Glad someone else is aware of it too.

Nobody escapes childhood unscathed.

This comment section is gonna be pretty depressing.
- Anti-natalist sentiment definitely pretty strong on Lemmy, which makes sense considering the crowd but sometimes it gets pretty brutal and uncalled for. Like at the end of the day we're a species because we make babies lol.
  
  I don't want to be anti-natalist. I wish we could make sure that our children will have better lives than we do, and I will fight to make that true. But for now, the guilt is too much for me.
  
  what do you mean anti-natalist?
- I actually had my real story typed but then didn't submit it because it's way too depressing for most peoples standards and could make people feel sick in their stomach.
  
  did the 2me42me4meirl (i may have misspelled that) community migrate to lemmy? if so, that sounds like a story that might fit there.
  depending on the stiry, it could also fit in somewhere like the' raised by narcissists' community/support-group.
  withe way, good practice would still probably be to add a content warming first, if you do decide to share that story somewhere.
- Always is
  
  The "the world is fucked and you better be miserable all the time" vibe can be a bit much sometimes

Her: "So, hear me out: We'll give them every one of our issues and then take away all of the safety nets we enjoyed."
Him: "I'm so down. This is gonna be great!"

Society needs to change on a fundamental level. The school system is flawed. The government is flawed. Social expectations are flawed. The tech industry is rotten to the core. The environment is collapsing under the weight of random stuff humanity wants but doesn't need or benefit from. Our generation needs to fix this and clean up after our ancestors.
- One of the larger problems is the government of the USA anyway providing zero healthcare/mental healthcare or any social help/care to it's own citizens then somehow expecting in the future to have a functioning country.
- Our generation needs to fix this and clean up after our ancestors.
  that sounds exhausting
  
  Can't somebody else do it
- People are flawed. Never gonna get a perfect system. Be happy with what you got
  
  This is the kind of bullshit that leaves us living in filth
  
  while i agree that perfection doesn't exist, i disagree to be happy with what you got. you can make improvements without seeking perfection.
  
  Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis Why not have both. One can appreciate the good things while also improving on the bad parts. Nobody ever should expect any system to be perfect, but rather seek its steady and never-ending improvement.

"Are you traumatized in any way? No? Think again! Did I do anything traumatizing? Tell me, I'm willing to admit and learn from my mistakes. So tell me, what did I do that traumatized you and don't look at me like that! I'm really trying to help you!"
- Meanwhile my parents don't remember any of their abuse and say I'm imagining stuff.
  
  Literally what every one of my clients with childhood trauma says. I'm a therapist. I can think of one exception where the parents kind of listened and tried to atone, but that's it.
  
  In my country, there's a saying, "The one who hurts forgets, the one hurt remember."
  
  Oh, hey me!

Don't you find it easy to blame how fucked up you are on your parents? Coz, me too and guess my child is gonna do the same in turn.
- Some are worse than others though, for sure.
- Yes when someone has trauma that impacts them from their parenting, it's reasonable to do so. Sorry that's news to you, welcome to 20th century psychology.

my favourite is the one that shows 2 people at the park with a stroller, arguing about which one of them needs to go to therapy, and the baby in the stroller thinks that they'll be the one to go to therapy since neither parent will.

Can I stay single my whole life? I really kinda want to.
- It can be difficult later life with no one obligated to attempt to care or find care for your frail body. But no one says I have to live that long.
  
  I don't even need to live that long either, as long as it's amazing it's good enough for me.
  Long life doesn't matter if it's gonna be completely miserable all the time.

People expecting perfection from imperfect beings: the thread

This is my fear with having kids and part of the reason I still haven't done it. I like the idea of having kids but don't want to actually do it and force someone to live with the consequences of my shitty parenting

Everyone who has kids or plans to have kids should go to therapy, it's the only way to stop the cycle of trauma
- My trauma was prescribed by therapists.

Can't make the same mistakes if I can't talk to women.

I would argue that we still see some slight improvements and progress over the generations. Of course the difference could be much bigger but every time I bring up that we should implement tests and a license to have kids I'm call a crazy person...
- Pre-test and license makes sense but would turn out awful, because the biggest shitheads out there would just co-opt the process. Unfortunately, the best option is just not perpetuating the species on an individual level.
- someone needs to google what Eugenics is, because what you are proposing is very much that...
- some places have some level of test, or anyways interview or vetting, before becoming a childcare worker, or befire adoption. that could be seen as somethkng similar to described.
  of course,multiple jurisdictions also make even accessing contraception, far more difficut that it should be, with all sorts of tests ands barriers in the way. I guess that's the opposite of, in one sense, of whats proposed perhaps.
  ...
  And, yeah, don't do eugenics, . do, however, make contraception and scientificallya accurate sex ed, freely and widely avalable.
- I've also had the thought that you should have a test to have a kid. So you're not crazy! Maybe I am though... 🤔
  
  There's no moral way to enforce it

I really don’t know why I was born, overall it’s like wallowing in a cesspool, I’m not even exaggerating about it, it’s just a simple thought of what it’s been like over the years.

🎶 Nothing changes coz it's all the same
The one you get's the one you give away
It all just happens again
Way down the line 🎶
And all the things you learned when you're a kid
You fuck up just like your parents did
It all just happens again
Way down the line 🎶

101 comments