A better Revanced
A better Revanced
Grayjay is a unique media application that revolutionizes the relationship between content creators and their audience. Our app democratizes the content delivery process, shifting the focus from platforms to creators themselves.
Watched Louis Rossman today, and he's part of the team behind a new app for watching online video content - not just youtube, but nebula, peertube, twitch and more.
adblock already integrated, works amazingly with a quick test on my end - it's an app in the Lemmy spirit
(it's got a paid model similar to winrar, you don't have to pay - but they do want you to - opensource and all)
![[HN] Grayjay – Follow Creators Not Platforms](https://radiation.party/pictrs/image/3cfe36b3-4a67-417d-84b1-869b286956ba.png?format=webp&thumbnail=128)
basically Newpipe but only source available, not really free software or open source, so they are restricting your freedoms.
Just keep using Newpipe instead.
It is open source but you can't publish modified code (this is to ensure there will be no malicious forks like there was with newpipe)
plus you missed the entire point:
... app for watching online video content - not just youtube, but nebula, peertube, twitch and more.
It's an app that allows you to watch the same creators across many platforms
FUTO Temporary License (FTL) violates the following open-source principles:
- Open source licenses must allow free redistribution. FTL allows license suspension and termination at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
- Open source licenses must allow source code distribution. FTL allows restrictions to access the code at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
- Open source licenses must allow modifications. FTL allows modifications only for non-commercial use, or maybe not even that. FTL dodges the word modifications here, no clue.
- Open source licenses must explicitly allow distribution of software built from modified source code. FTL forbids distribution of software built from modified source code for commercial use.
- Open source licenses must not discriminate against persons/groups and fields of endeavor. FTL allows license suspension and termination at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
The FTL enables the following practices:
- Copyright holders can change the license terms.
- Copyright holders can re-license everything.
- Copyright holders can target specific groups and individuals with discriminatory license terms.
- Copyright holders can close source everything.
- Copyright holders can forbid specific groups and individuals from using their work.
The term "open source" generally refers to the definition by the Open Source Initiative.
Not allowing publishing of modified source code is in violation with the criteria of open source.
It is open source but you can’t publish modified code (this is to ensure there will be no malicious forks like there was with newpipe)
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that is not open source. That is source available.
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because we all know that license agreements are a line that trojan distributors will not cross. Not malware distribution, not hacking laws, but copyright infringement. They'd never do that at all.
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I could not find a link to the source on the website 🤔 do you know where the source is?
I don't believe newpipe has a way to cast so that's what I'm interested in here
If you watch the video, Louis explains why they only made it source available
Nah, Louis explains that the app is open-source, but describes open-source as source-available.
It's not open source. It's source available.
It is an interesting project, not sure where it goes. The title is deeply misleading though. The features of ReVanced make YouTube so much better, whereas this project doesn't seem to be about making YouTube better so much as circumnavigating YouTube for the comment boxes and as your hub to creators. They seem to be doing different things.
What do they do differently?
So, I really want to be optimistic about this project. I love that it integrates multiple sources, that it lets you use different identities that are not attached to any of these services. I installed it and already paid for it even, because I love initiatives like this.
I think it's unsustainable. In 5 years, everyone who'd use the app's already paid for it, which means the devs have no incentive to continue to work, and funding dries up. When that happens, they'll of course just let the app run until the plugins stop working. Nobody will be able to pick it up and continue development in an open forum because it's not FLOSS.
My hope is they re-license it under a copyleft license later, but I'm not optimistic about that happening. With how things are now, it does appear to be doomed to enshittification.
Yeah FOSS or FLOSS (your teeth ^^) is the only viable solution we have found that really works. It's like Democracy IMO, criticize them all you want but that's the only ones that works over time.
You just described why subscriptions are rampant in the software industry.
We use to have upgrade pricing and paid major revisions for software. But things changed to progressive models. And then things like what you described came along over extended periods of time.
Yes, subscriptions are probably the closest there is to sustainable development in a proprietary framework
As long as Rossmann has a say in the ordeal I doubt it'll enshittify. If it they can't carry it anymore, I think they'll re-license it.
But in any case, I'm really glad to see effort toward this. Because I may be naive, but I think this will make viewers & potential devs aware that it's possible to have a great experience consuming video without being tied up in Youtube's basement, and I predict will inspire more FOSS in the same vein.
ReVanced taps into my history with microg. When I watch stuff on desktop with Firefox and uBlock Origin, I want those videos to show as watched on my phone when I open ReVanced so I don't get recommended the same stuff. That works.
GrayJay can't do this. It's not better. It's a good idea, but it's a side grade.
Grayjay can do this - there is a toggle in the settings for the YouTube addin to sync watch data with your Google account.
It's a one-time sync though. If I want history from what I watched on my desktop today I have to resync.
As lemann pointed out there's a setting for that in the YT add-on im the sources tab, not the app settings. Also myself and others have had loading issues with Revanced. It'll start playing, suddenly start buffering and never stops. Grayjay works as it should and still has the settings I want from Revanced. Not to argue, just want to let others in my situation know Grayjay is the upgrade we need.
That's the exact opposite of what most people want from an app like this.
It's what I want from an app like this 🤷♂️
Tried it out a bit. I Ike the idea of the app being basically an rss read for video platforms. This is great for not having a bunch of apps (twitch app/Xtra for twitch and YT app/Newpipe/skytube/etc. for YT.) A user profile and allowing app comments are nice to have on the app.
However, I'm worried about what Rossmann says in regards to profit and maintenance. The app is moderated/worked-on by (I think paid) professionals and we should pay a license of $9.99 yet the app is also unprofitable and may never turn a profit. So, what's the point in paying for the app?
Rossmann has a millionaire backing up his repair business among other things. So, is some of this being funded by that person and other investors of FUTO or is our money the only thing keeping this afloat? How are these workers getting paid if it's a one time payment and the money is uncertain? How is the platform going to stay up and pay fair wages? The app is niche and I can't see too many people paying for a license. I also can't see too many workers staying unless they are passionate. Something isn't adding up unless I'm wrong.
However, I'm worried about what Rossmann says in regards to profit and maintenance. The app is moderated/worked-on by (I think paid) professionals and we should pay a license of $9.99 yet the app is also unprofitable and may never turn a profit. So, what's the point in paying for the app?
By paying for the app, you're merely donating to FUTO. As Rossmann mentioned in his video, it is completely optional to pay.
There's nothing wrong with any app being unprofitable IMO. Public transport and car infrastructure is unprofitable and we don't have a problem with those... heck even my personal website is unprofitable, that's about $200-300 a year being funnelled into something nobody uses or visits.
Rossmann has a millionaire backing up his repair business
This is incorrect
Rossmann's personal repair business is financially independent from his employer, FUTO, who only partially sponsors Rossmann's R2R advocacy with the assistance of community donations. Rossmann frequently publishes hour long videos on his main channel crawling through the finances, and has spreadsheets online for public viewing where viewers can do an audit themselves
So, is some of this being funded by that person and other investors of FUTO or is our money the only thing keeping this afloat
AFAICT, FUTO is comparable to organisations like NLNET - the same people at sponsor the Lemmy devs. The aim is generally not to fund projects forever, but to eventually open source them after they've been developed to the agreed level of functionality. Seeing as this app is mainly a Rossmann initiative there could be an exception here though - such as Rossmann donating his own money towards development.
The app is niche and I can't see too many people paying for a license
I'm probably an exception then lol
Spoiler
I also can't see too many workers staying unless they are passionate. Something isn't adding up unless I'm wrong.
A lot of people who follow Rossmann are passionate about R2R, actually owning what you pay for, and not giving excessive control to monopolies like Google.
Grayjay is more along the lines of this spirit, and as soon as they have their DHT video hosting thing ready I'll gladly donate some of my storage space towards it 👌
There are plenty of projects that take donations/payments that don't make profit but stay afloat, normally through the team behind it paying the bills. I guess it depends what the running costs actually are, and if it's for people or e.g. servers.
Kodi is one of them
Rossmann has a millionaire backing up his repair business
Billionaire, actually.
So, is some of this being funded by that person and other investors of FUTO or is our money the only thing keeping this afloat?
The billionaire (Eron Wulf) is also the founder of FUTO. They don't have investors.
Rossmann has a millionaire backing up his repair business among other things.
Why does everybody seem to know all of this dirt about Louis except me? I've seen this "be suspicious of anything Rossman is involved in" comment a few times in the past few days. I'm out of the loop.
I just bought the FUTO voice input app as well from them and it's genuinely amazing. It has punctuation where it needs to. It cuts out all the UM's. And the best part is, I don't have to pretend that I'm talking to a robot. I can just speak as if I'm talking to a normal person and it gets it right nearly every single time. It is so worth the $5.
This entire comment was typed with it, and I did not edit a single thing.
Thank you so much for this suggestion. It's really a great step towards the end of tedious voice messages. Works great but is a bit slow when using the multilang voice model. I don't mind.
I wouldn't classify it as a better revanced, but that doesn't matter, thanks for sharing this awesome tool I really liked it, I first started incorporating Matrix in my life, then a couple days ago Lemmy, and now this, it's great
What is this Matrix you are talking about?
Search for Elements aswell with Matrix
It sounds interesting, but... Android only? I don't actually watch much video on my phone. It's mostly on my desktop browser.
Not optimal, but using Waydroid on Linux, Android apps feel almost like they run natively (no need to start a emulator manually).
GTK Thanks
Gotta start somewhere.
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Publishing on iOS creates a whole plethora of hurdles because everything you install has to first be approved by Apple. This is an Apple problem. The founder of the company has said he doesn't like developing for iOS for this reason.
It's not enough to make work around for YouTube. We need a new YouTube.
True, but with the ability to combine all competitors in a single feed a significant hurdle has been removed
This is why I'm excited for it. Alternatives simply do not have the breadth nor depth of videos YouTube does, but if the same content is found on either platform, you bet I'll pick an alternative. It's an onramp to other services.
that's literally the whole point of this?
the point of this is a new youtube is unlikely to take off because people can't start using it without missing all their regular content.
this means you can keep all your regular content and add new sources, with the same creators, which means they can start to move to new platforms and take their followers. that's how we'll replace youtube.
He talked about saving videos from being deleted when you lose one of your accounts, so it's in the works
There are several "new YouTube"s. The problem is getting people to transition to them. And this is intended to do exactly that.
What's Piped?
Piped is alternative frontend, so still youtube
It needs YouTube to fall first, no one has that kind of money to operate at such a loss for such a long time.
Platforms with a serious offering have no chance until that.
That's basically what it is
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Wdym by bypass and those files ? I am sorry, but do you mean u need to edit something, delete or overwrite ?
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They can get forks taken down from legit places like GitHub, but this is the piracy community, isn't it?
Anyway, have you actually used the app? It's fucking amazing, it works flawlessly in my experience. I played with it for an hour and immediately gave them ten bucks, it's better than NewPipe, ReVanced, everything I've tried.
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You don't need to bypass anything. You can just not pay and the app will continue functioning just fine.
It's the WinRAR model.
The patching is meant to convey that message of never paying, by removing the option and prompts + nags to pay, as well as create the experience of an app that is entirely free without such nags. Such patches exist for WinRAR as well to enhance user experience.
Is there SponserBlock support?
If it supported both SponserBlock and DeArrow I'd switch in a heartbeat. Until then I'll stick to ReVanced.
No. At least not yet
I don't think so
Not as far as I can see but it is in alpha
what's DeArrow?
It replaces clickbait titles and thumbnails with more reasonable community-provided ones. From the same developers as sponserblock.
I really hope they add sponsorblock and dearrow support in the future because this is a truly awesome app.
Dearrow is so nice, fuck them clickbaits.
I was excited about this but it's mobile only?
With how locked down mobile is compared to desktop I think it's a good thing to start with mobile
WDYM by locked down?
Agreed, great start for the project
Sadly it's for the large part the recommendation algorithm that I'm on YouTube for. Most of the videos I watch are from people I'm not subscribed to.
I've always wondered if people like you existed! Fascinating.
Not criticizing you, just personally I don't want any recommendation algos in any of my media.
Yeah people have mixed opinions about that, but atleast in my case YouTube's recommendations does a really good job at finding content I'm interested in. It just needs some training for it to do a good job. When there's something I'm not interested in, I just flag it as "not interested" and then that stuff dissapears and is replaced with something else.
I don't agree, you need a way to discover new stuff (akin to going to /all). What I do hate is how they don't give you the option to do anything but that. Or they give the option but it's incredibly annoying so you don't use it. Like you can't trust YouTube to show you the content from the people you're subscribed to. You can't trust them to even show their content on the homepage of the channel if you want to be sure you didn't miss anything interesting you have to go channel by channel clicking in the videos and live tabs for anything the algorithm might deem not worthy
I follow way to many creators to have a sensible subscription feed, especially when I only watch some videos from some channels. If there were tiered subscriptions, I'd use them more. But right now I only use subscriptions for my tier 1.
I'm the same way, I watch (hate to admit) hours of YouTube every day. I do subscribe to a lot of people, but only after I've seen several of their videos and enjoyed them. Primarily I refresh the homepage and see if anything peeks my interest. In my personal opinion YouTube has one of the best algorithms, generally showing me a good mix of stuff I'm interested in (with addons and whatnot to hide the bullshit and recommended MSM garbage). Conversely Instagram and Facebook have some of the consistently worst algorithms, but I think Facebook is getting better about it, Instagram however NEVER shows me ANYTHING I could ever possibly care about and usually actively get annoyed by.
It also has that. You can login with google
You don't even need to subscribe and get recommendations
I was pleasantly surprised to see that it still carries that over! My Home feed (not subscriptions) has plenty of videos from channels I'm not subscribed to
I like libretube pretty interface and you can login to piped instance to sync your subs and playlists all without Google account.
Libretube is sweet. Just starting to utilize the download option: awesome.
I use yt-dlp for my desktop, libre does that for Android. =Happy
Interested in the multi-platform of this new app. Will have to take it for a spin.
The issue with all this is the general architecture of the internet, web browsers and programming languages and such aren't going to fundamental change just because Google needs to see more ad revenue.
The harder they try to stick with this method of profiteering the harder the push back will be. There will always be ad block as long as there are ads.
All they're doing is showing their cards and setting themselves up for defeat!
I downloaded this app yesterday and I love it.
Better than Revanced? So it can access all my watch history, comments, votes, subscriptions, etc? If not, then it's not better for me.
"Not compatible with my device" sadly. Probably Android version since my phone is old as all fuck.
If you're trying through the app store I would suggest the website, it has a few different options including non ARM device architecture!
So I have multiple YouTube accounts under the same email. I tried to important my subscriptions but it takes them from the wrong account. Is there a way to select accounts?
This was my issue as well, I didn't see the option to select unfortunately.
Nice. I definitely have to check it out. I pay for Nebula/Curiosity Stream but am not able to play the Nebula videos with the screen off like I can with ReVanced. Hopefully I can with Grayjay.
please edit this post to remove the incorrect claim that this is open source, as it is clearly not.
I have found three comments from you, where you insert yourself as an expert on what Open Source is/not is. Although you do link to some sources, you do so without arguing your point. IMO this is not a constructive way of communication. Since I believe your perspective is purist but overall not too helpful, I will go through the trouble an actually argue the point:
Your problem is following sentence published by the OSI: "The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources." Which FUTO does - they won't allow you to put ads on top of their software and distribute it. But I hope that you would agree with me that GNU GPL is an Open Source License. However, they do have a copyleft which practically makes selling software impossible. If you use a library which uses the GPL, you have to make your sources available - which makes selling a compiled version a difficult task...
If we look at Wikipedia, we see following sentence: "Generally, open source refers to a computer program in which the source code is available to the general public for use or modification from its original design.", Grayjay fulfils this. Wikipedia continues: "{...}. Depending on the license terms, others may then download, modify, and publish their version {...}", you are allowed to download and modify Grayjay. They do not allow you to commercially distribute your modifications, which is a license term.
Lets look at a big OSS company. Red Hat writes: "An open source development model is the process used by an open source community project to develop open source software. The software is then released under an open source license, so anyone can view or modify the source code." These criteria are fulfilled by the FUTO TEMPORARY LICENSE (Last updated 7 June 2023). Red Hat does not mention the right to redistribute anywhere I could find it.
To those who actually read up to this point: I hope you find this helpful to form your own opinion based on your own research.
You can argue that "open source" can mean other things that what the OSI defined it to mean, but the truth of the matter is that almost everyone thinks of the OSI or similar definition when they talk about "open source". Insisting on using the term this way is deliberately misleading. Even your own links don't support your argument.
A bit further down in the Wikipedia page is this:
Main article: Open-source software
Generally, open source refers to a computer program in which the source code is available to the general public for use for any (including commercial) purpose, or modification from its original design.
And if you go to the main article, it is apparent that the OSI definition is treated as the de fact definition of open source. I'm not going to quote everything, but here are examples of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Definitions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open-source_versus_source-availableAnd from Red Hat, literally the first sentence
Open source is a term that originally referred to open source software (OSS). Open source software is code that is designed to be publicly accessible—anyone can see, modify, and distribute the code as they see fit.
...
And if we follow that link:
In actuality, neither free software nor open source software denote anything about cost—both kinds of software can be legally sold or given away.
But the Red Hat page is a bad source anyway because it is written like a short intro and not a formal definition of the concept. Taking a random sentence from it and arguing that it doesn't mention distribution makes no sense.
Here is a more comprehensive page from Red Hat, that clearly states that they evaluate whether a license is open source based on OSI and the FSF definitions.
since you copy+pasted this wall of confused text to me in 3 different places I guess I'll reply here too, in the not-deleted thread: https://opensource.org/authority/ (this is not even a controversial topic)
The source is freely available, but it does not fit the common definition of open source. Namely, you're not allowed to redistribute with tracking, malware, or adds. I guess this has been a problem with piped?
Yes, this has been a major issue for NewPipe, see here.
It is not free software but it is open source. Stop gatekeeping the term. I can look at the code and modify it to my hearts content. I can also watch as the project is being developed. That means it's open source. It would be free software if you where also allowed to redistribute it but I can fully see why they do not want that
it is open source. Stop gatekeeping the term
i guess you didn't click the link in my comment? here is another, with a list of governments and other entities who all agree about the definition: https://opensource.org/authority/
https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master/LICENSE: FUTO TEMPORARY LICENSE It seems like it's more CC non-commercial and not truly libre but I can understand why someone would say open source.
I can understand why someone would say open source
I can understand why too: it's either because they were not aware of the widely agreed-upon definition of the term, or because they're being disingenuous. I'm assuming it was the former; whether OP edits the post will reveal if it was actually the latter.
This whole discussion is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It depends completely on how you define open source, and there is no single universally agreed upon definition. Per this article, there are over 80 variations of open source licenses all with different term and conditions. Some are more permissive, some less so. Yet they can all be considered a variation of open source, though I'm anticipating you wouldn't agree? For this particular app, there are some restrictions in place aimed to protect users from malicious forks. IMO this is a good thing. I can't understand why you are acting like the definition police here, it seems very pedantic tbh.
Many software buyers – even new developers – misunderstand the term “open source” to mean the software is available to use, copy, modify, and distribute as desired. This misunderstanding may arise from confusing open source with public domain or shareware, both of which are free to use and modify without specific permissions or licensing.
The truth is that, for the most part, open-source software is covered by one of several types of open source licenses and is not necessarily free of charge either.
In contrast to proprietary software where vendors typically make it impossible to access, copy or modify the source code, open source code permits the use, reuse, sharing, modification, and distribution of the code in other programs or applications. But just as with proprietary software licensing, open source software is subject to various legal terms and restrictions, depending on the type of open source license in force.
there is no single universally agreed upon definition
There is an overwhelmingly agreed-upon definition. Look at who agrees with it: https://opensource.org/authority/
And who doesn't agree? Historically, a few of the giant software companies who were threatened by the free software movement thought that "open source" was a way for them to talk the talk without walking the walk. However, years ago, even they all eventually agreed about OSI's definition and today they use terms like source-available software for their products that don't meet it.
Today it is only misinformed people like yourself, and grifters trying to profit off of the positive perception of the term. I'm assuming Louis Rossman is in the former category too; we'll see in the near future if he acknowledges that the FUTO license is not open source and/or relicenses the project under an open source license.
there are over 80 variations of open source licenses all with different term and conditions. Some are more permissive, some less so. Yet they can all be considered a variation of open source, though I’m anticipating you wouldn’t agree?
There are many open source licenses, and many non-open-source licenses. there is a list of licenses which OSI has analyzed and found to meet their definition; licenses which aren't on that list can be open source too... but to see if they are, you would need to read the license and the definition.
Have you read The Open Source Definition? I'm assuming not.
I can’t understand why you are acting like the definition police here, it seems very pedantic tbh.
It's because (1) FUTO are deceiving their customers by claiming that their product is something which it isn't, and (2) they're harming the free and open source software movements by telling people that terms mean things contrary to what they actually mean.
What fresh hell of goalpost moving is this? You're so bad faith.
Oh go on you absolute fucking blowhard. Go print out a copy of osi and jerk off in your closet and leave the rest if us functional adults alone.
Tried playing YouTube and it kept crashing and gave up. I’m happy with NewPipe
Godly
Is it better than NewPipe x SponsorBlock?
can't import subscriptions from YouTube or any other platform
You can import YouTube subscriptions by clicking on the Sources tab and then tapping on the YouTube source (says tap to open in small print). You can then sign in and after that you'll have import subscriptions as well as import playlists buttons.
awesome, thanks
If you open your subscriptions JSON, it will just open in the app and start loading your subs.
OP, did you purposely leave the Nazi hangout sites that this is meant to serve out of your content examples? The places that are generally career death sentences for the "cancelled"?
I generally like Louis, but this project seems like it will mostly be a tool for the rightfully de-platformed to retain an audience for their disinformation and hate.
Not a win for me right out the gate.
Oh SHIT this is the first time I'm being made aware of that.
Then just... don't use those platforms? If you're so afraid they'll convert you.
Waitwhaaat?
I, uh - honestly wasn't aware of it - I mentioned examples that I was somewhat aware/familiar with...
It honestly didn't cross my mind with the nazi shit 💀💀