memes @lemmy.world

2d ago

Explaining hardware to enthusiasts

121 comments

Well, It's a game box that doesn't record everything you do, shove it into AI, and sell all your secrets to the highest bidder.
It's basically a linux PC from a reputable vendor that comes with support.
And yeah, you could build your own cheaper.
- And yeah, you could build your own cheaper.
  Notably, though, this is the case with any pre-built PC; the Steam Box isn't an exception. We don't know the final price or specs yet but presumably it's no worse value than buying something from e.g. Dell. Probably better value purely based on it coming with Linux and without the bloatware.
  
  And also cheaper because steam expects to make additional money on each user in the future via steam purchases, so they can keep the margin smaller in the hardware price
  
  https://www.vice.com/en/article/valve-finally-confirms-leaked-steam-machine-price-rumors/
  Well, it's true we don't have actual numbers yet, we do have some pretty solid info on the hardware. And we have some statements from Valve themselves that it's not going to be console-priced, even though the hardware is clearly console specced.
  Don't get me wrong. I really really want it to work out well. I would love to have well, supported Linux workstations in people's hands.
  But I think we're going to find its price is going to shove it into a niche audience.
- that comes with support
  biggest point.
  When you build your own linux pc, you will always have a big risk of some unexpected problems. Lowering the bar of technical expertise to run linux is the main selling point here IMO.
  
  Yeah, I think the missing point is the average Lemmy user is not the target market. This is Steam's attempt to grab market share from the other consoles. People with gaming PCs are probably already using steam. People with Xbox or PS are probably not. Steam needs to provide an out of the box ready product to let them existing console players play steam.
- Not just the highest bidder. All bidders.
- And yeah, you could build your own cheaper.
  I call BS.
  At what theoretical price point for a Steam Machine, can you match the or exceed the specs, for less cost?
  Ok, now also try to do that, and match the Steam Machine's power draw, and form factor.
  ... Go on, show me your build, with current US prices.
  Unless I somehow missed an actual price announcement for the Steam Machine, I wanna see how cheap you can get an actually comparable build done for.
  
  Hey troll, go find a hobby.

I can build a better PC for less money
Can you?
First of all, Valve has not even announced a price yet. Everything is still pure speculation.
Second, have you seen the price of GPU's, RAM, and SSD's these days? Consumers for gaming PC parts are competing for supply with industrial buyers now. AI is hoovering all the supply up with the backing from private equity. The GPU market never fully recovered from the cryptocurrency era either.
I've been wanting to build a new mid-range gaming PC for years now. I've kept an eye on prices. I spent ~$1k on a machine in 2019, with the GPU costing a mere $175. Nowadays a comparable tier of GPU starts at $600, and the cost fo a mid-tier machine is over $1,500, getting closer to $2,000 with the RAM and SSD prices.
Valve can get better bulk pricing on components. Their primary profit center is software sales, and it's really hard to sell software when no one can afford hardware. So Valve is incentivized to design these machines that are resistant to being scalped or scrapped for specific components, and to sell them for relatively low margin in order to drive game sales. We already saw this with the Steam Deck- it was hardware that could play games without mining crypto.
I do think the RAM and maybe SSS supply could throw a wrench into Valve's plans though. Just because if the prices go high enough, people could start buying steam machines to rip out the RAam modules and sell them separately. But we are nowhere near that level of RAM pricing yet.
- People say the same about a Mac, and they are usually correct but a Mac is built to last and be energy efficient. Hardware/software integration is also tight.
  You'd spend less building your own or buying a cheap windows machine but in terms of performance, energy efficiency, build quality etc you'll struggle to get better value in the long run.
  
  Except they don't. Sure, if your comparing a $500 Windows laptop to a $2000 MacBook, then yes this is correct, but once you start comparing computers of the same price tag then it gets different. The parts on the Windows devices tend to be newer, faster, better screen/touch screen, and longer supported. Apple supports their computers for around 7 years before they can't be updated, Windows on average 10 years. And yes, Windows computers do last 10+ years, everyone is complaining very loudly how their 10+ year old Win10 machine isnt getting updates anymore and cant install Win11.
- OK but who said that the RAM isnt firmly soldered?
  
  Gamer's Nexus has reported that it is upgradeable SO-DIMM modules, though they did not confirm whether it is 1 or 2 sticks.

It's a linux gaming PC where you do not have to worry about hardware compatibility.
- But can you mod games like on PC?
  
  It is a PC, so yes, it can mod games.
  
  Many mods work. I have tried some GTA SA mods, and have seen people using Minecraft mods.
  
  Yes.
  Windows has MO2?
  Linux has Limo.
  Very, very comparable mod managers.
  If you mean... actually develop your own mods?
  Also yes, but personally I'd recommend swapping out SteamOS for Bazzite.
- So is it 'never obsolete' like the EMachines were?
- That's exactly what I believe about it. If Valve sold it without their monopolized software on it, I would be interested.
  
  They allow you to install whatever you like on their hardware. This is the same case with the steam deck - the bootloader is accessible with a button combination.
  So if you don't like steamOS, you can just install another OS from a USB device before the first login screen.
  
  Er, why would you expect the software on this to be any more restricted than the Deck's? Have you seen some information to that effect?
  
  ... Their... monopolized... operating system?
  Which is completely open source, and thus free to everyone... and also forkable, modifiable?
  ... Genuienly, what are you talking about?

It is so bizarre that even when something like this is announced, a unique phenomenon in gaming and modern pc history, which is sure to make a lot of pc linux converts because of its accessibility, the pc linux masterrace is still being gatekeeping about it.

I'll repeat what others likely mentioned before:
Valve specifically chose to build a mid range PC, so more people can afford it.
Also they priced it in a way where it's still affordable while offering the convenience of not having to build it yourself. The majority of people never built a PC themselves, nor do they want to.
- i think i must be their target audience because i'm excited as hell for the steam machine. i have no desire to build my own, i just want to play my steam games on my big tv. that's it. they're making that easy.
- Not disagreeing with any of this, but it's not like people who don't build PC's dont have plenty of options of prebuilt ones from either high end 3rd party stores as well as low end ones. To me it's just another option to add to a long list which due to the company name will definitely sell more than the others right off the bat.
  
  The key difference is that the Steam Machine can be controlled 100% for the controller with a OS built to be controlled by the controller, and seen on a TV.
  Windows doesn't do that. It fuckin sucks to see on a TV because the UI is so small, and the controller only works in-game.
  I am most excited for the OS progress. I will be putting whatever on my living room pc as soon as it's released. I can't stand using a mouse and keyboard in the living room and having to scoot close to the TV
  
  Choose: Big, bulky, shining with full RGB spectrum monster (low-end)
  Or small funny box that Just Works.
  
  To me the Steam Machine looks more like it's supposed to be a console type deal. Like what the Steam Link was supposed to be.
  Especially if you mainly use it with the Big Picture mode of Steam OS
  
  But the Steam Box comes with Linux so it must better :)
  
  Options is the key word. Options means no "one" has a monopoly.

from my wife - we sit in front of a computer all damn day. we don't want to sit in front of a computer all damn night too. we want to sit down in front of our TV and play games together in the evening. we just want it to work. we've built PCs and we have no interest in cobbling something together and supporting it for it's lifetime. don't act like that doesn't come with a huge cost of time.
- 100% This, I work in IT all day. The last thing I want to do with my personal time is build and support a home built machine attached to my TV that my kids or wife will use to watch Netflix or play a few games. Especially if I am out of town and something stops working.
  That’s why I own a PlayStation and pay a premium for their games on an inferior platform compared to PC. It generally just works with out me having to fuck with it all the time. I’d get a Steam box for the same reason.
  
  I have game consoles, but I don't use them regularly. Every time I turn them on, they want an hour of updates and a password reset just to use the dvd player.
  A PC just works.
  I bet a Steam Machine would just work too, because Valve aren't as incompetent as the competition.
- An hdmi extender, routing a cable, and getting some wireless peripherals (which you'd need anyway) is a huge cost of time?
  Unless you live in a mansion, I guess..
  I like the steam box but idk
  
  All this tells me is you don't frequently mess with your computer enough to break it.
  I want a steam box because my PC is always in some state of me fucking with it. I don't want that to get in the way of my gaming.
  
  Covid, the wire company makes a wireless 4k HDMI extender, the EHW-200. There's a 1080 one too, the EHW-100 for half the cost. Plug and play, no app. They're pretty cool.
- You can literally just move the computer? I have a computer in my living room. In fact that is where it stays all day everyday.
  But if you don't want to physically move it. You can run a single fiber optic cable, or if you have Ethernet - connect a balun at the PC and at the TV...
- ...it doesn't come with a huge cost of time. Literally no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Where is the time cost?
  
  You just buy a new PC every time you have a driver issue, huh?

It's smaller, it has build-in wireless steam controller/frame/deck connector, iirc it switch on your tv when you turn on the machine, it has minimal amount of programmable LED, and it's powerful enough to play the latest release. The form factor alone is quite enticing, building my own pc with the same spec probably will be a lot more bigger.

I remember that guy on hacker news who said Dropbox would never take off because he could build something similar with rsync. He's not wrong, people who looked for something rsync could solve continued just use rsync. Meaning, people who want to build a PC for less will continue to build a PC less. The Steam Box isn't for people who want to build a pc for less, though.

The box in question is tiny: about the size of a GameCube. Extremely portable, light, and quiet. Valve has a strong profit motive to ensure games can actually run on it without Windows, doing nearly all of the troubleshooting for you. Yeah you could install Linux on a system you built yourself. You can eat the responsibility of expensive mistakes you could possibly make in building it and setting it up. But if the steam machine doesn't work ALREADY, straight out of the box, without the expectation for you to fuck with it, it's valve's problem. For grown ups who have a job and limited free time, not having to waste that time on unfucking shit may in fact be worth it.

Have they announced a price yet?
- Nope, it's fucking hilarious how they already go crazy about the price and the bad stats with nothing concrete being announced yet.
  
  I'm not worried about the stats since it's better than my rig lol, but with ram and other hardware prices increasing, it does worry me a little that it could flop due to the price.

I'll just repost the same comment I wrote the first time someone posted this meme:
It's a small form factor PC, pre-installed with Linux and steam. Period.
Can you build something more powerful cheaper? Probably
Can you build something more powerful with the same form factor for cheaper? Maybe, probably not... We don't know.
All of those are beside the point.
They sell millions of desktop PCs pre-installed with windows, they often make terrible hardware choices, and don't even have a small form factor, if they do they have the computing power of a laptop. All of this at an unreasonable prices. At the very least the steam machine will be better value than those. Anyone who would consider one of those PCs, might consider a steam machine instead.

I like the idea that it's a targetable hardware profile personally.

Steam box
It's got what nerds crave!
- Damn it, beat me to it. Though I was going to say gamers instead of nerds, though both work.

How do you not get it? Didn’t you buy an eggs box when you were a kid? What was in it? Eggs. Now this is the same thing but with Steam. Your just pretending you don’t get it.
- Seriously. I have like 3 egg boxes. Can’t wait for all the Steam I could be putting in boxes.
- But i could just buy chicken and wait for the eggs.
  No one is stopping you buddy

Quite a bit of speculation in these comments considering we don't even have a price yet
- I would pay any price just so I have a pc with games only on it. I haven't gamed in years cuz my pc is just too full of hobbies, video editing, photography, personal items, backups, movies, albums. Can't game with all of that in my space.
  A steam console where I can just lay in my chaise lounge and play some Terraria? Gosh yes

Meh. You can’t beat the economy of scale with boutique retail PC part prices. That said, you’re probably going to get the min quality for specified performance.

Funny meme, but I would genuinely worry for the people who don’t understand the value proposal of a pre-built, console-like PC for Steam gaming. We will see if it’s worth it based on price and specs later, but the logic is definitely there, especially with MS, Sony and Nintendo dropping the ball so much.

As a PC Linux gamer I hear you...I really do, but listen...I really just wanna stick something Steambox-esque on my face and finally have a smooth open source VR experience.
I'm really looking forward to that.
And I know when they announce it, it'll probably be way out of reach for me, but I'm still looking forward to it lol.

By the time it arrives you won’t even be able to buy the memory for whatever the Steam Machine ends up costing.

I can build a PC for cheaper
How would you know? The price for the SM hasn't been announced yet and at the same time parts are increasing in price by a pretty huge margin.

Its a gabecube

if you are asking these questions.... gabecube is not for you.
if you know how to build a PC/fresh install an OS... you should build your own steambox.
if you are a console refugee and want to join the pc master race without having to learn linux, fuck with drivers, or ever open a desktop, this is for you!
- Ok so if I do fit the middle one there I should give up my job and family then cuz doing all that sucked up so much time. Might want to put that in as a disclaimer.
  
  Running the installer for steamos, bazzite, nobara, or cachyos should take no longer than 20ish minutes or so... Steam and bazzite will work with no additional setup or config, cachyos and nobara might takes another 20 minutes once installed to finish up installing steam or obs or whatever else you need/want....
  I'm bad at PC building, so that took me about 2 hours to assemble and fire up for the first time.... But if you've already have a PC or boight a prebuilt, you don't need to worry about that step

I saw someone complain that there weren't enough customisation possibilities with the Steam Machine. As if they couldn't just build it however they want right now.

Bro have you seen the prices for storage, graphics cards, memory? I'll take 2 Steam whatever shape it is.

How do you know you can build one for cheaper if we don't know the price?

Does it go to 11?
- It's from Valve. It doesn't even go to 3.
  
  "v2.5 is all the game anyone is ever going to need" - Gabe

It's got what PvsZ craves.

We don't know the price yet
Not everyone knows how to build a PC
Not everyone wants to learn to build a PC
Not everyone knows how to install a new OS
Not everyone wants to learn to install a new OS
(Talking about OS because I'm assuming they want a console experience, not a windows desktop experience)

Aren’t hard drives through the roof on price suddenly because of AI boxes and aren’t games as chonky as heck right now? They are coming out at 150gb lately.
Building a pc is not cheap.

If nothing else, I'd be absolutely down to do what In did when I got my deck and wait for a refurnished model to be sold before purchasing, if it's actually good like deck is IMO. Then, since it should work just fine with at least the modified Arch based SteamOS, probably see about replacing SteamOS with something other gaming focused distro, more as an experiment than anything else.

brought to you by valve
- It has what games crave

American bs product. boycot!

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