If Russia is fighting against Nazis in Ukraine
If Russia is fighting against Nazis in Ukraine
143 comments
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I'm beginning to suspect these Nazi folks aren't very honest.
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The honesty of Nazis is a peculiar thing. In Sweden, the far-right party that the government collaborates with, who were started by literal ex-SS nazis and neo-nazis, have celebrated other ex-SS nazis, have worn swaztikas and so on. They have this "sociologist" guy whose argument for this party not being nazis anymore is basically "Look at Golden Dawn and other nazi organizations, they are open about them being nazis. Nazis are honest about being nazis. That is why the Sweden Democrats cannot be nazis, because if they were, they'd be open about it".
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or clever
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there are nazi factions of the russian armed forces
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To Russians, 'Nazi' is not a political ideology or a party, it's simply "Whoever is against Russia right now". Are you against Russia? You're a Nazi, it's as simple as that. If they had to contend with the idea that Nazism is a political ideology, they'd have to start calling themselves Nazis, which doesn't work in the Russian psyche.
So, when Russians say that Ukrainians are Nazis, what they really mean is "Ukrainians are fighting back when we kill their children. That makes them enemies and therefore Nazis"
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Yes. The current modern neo-nazis behave similarly: they claim only the others (the ones they don't like) are Nazis and their own kind just want the "freedom" to say and do what they like, e.g. get rid of people of color, or political opponents after that. They also frequently claim they're the victims themselves (e.g. claims of "white genocide" => whites "need to fight back")). But they would never call themselves Nazis even though they are doing Nazi things regularly. Fascists twist and redefine words and meanings to serve their own agenda.
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Small correction: They go after political opponents, then minorities. Can't have organizations that can protect the minorities when you put them in camps.
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It also doesn't help that there is an... Interesting... Relationship between Ukrainian nationalism and Naziism. A lot of Ukrainian national heroes who are fondly remembered for fighting for Ukrainian independence against the Soviets did so by aligning with the Nazis in World War 2, and many of them were explicitly fascist and anti-semitic. It's a deeply uncomfortable fact that there is a decent amount of overlap between Ukrainian nationalism and Naziism. Not everyone fighting for Ukraine is a Nazi, but all the Ukrainian Nazis are fighting for Ukraine. To make matters worse, Ukraine isn't really in a position to turn these guys down when they offer to fight for them and provide support because they're desperate, and it's politically difficult because they're pretty popular.
Of course, not to let Russia off the hook there are a lot of fascist antisemites on their side too. I mean their big mercenary group was literally called the Wagner Group which is pretty fucking sus. I just think that a lot of times we fall into "Russia Bad, therefore Ukraine Good" when the real story is more complicated. In a vacuum, I wouldn't say Ukraine would be a good country to align with, but western powers kind of have to if they want to check Russian expansion in Europe.
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That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
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It's more like what Russian government wants than actual reality.
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Because MAGA is in denial. They think Nazis are left wing.
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"BuT tHeY aRe ThE nAtIoNaLiSt socialists So ThEy MuSt Be LuBrEeLs" - these dipshits, while declaring themselves white nationalists
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“DEMOCRATS are the ones who wanted to KEEP SLAVERY” 🙄
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It's so easy to feel dumb people. The real problem is just how many people are dumb. Looking at education in the US, it's only gonna get worse.
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No they don't, they very well know what they are. But they like to lie about it to deflect from it. That is what nazis do.
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While simultaneously waving Nazi flags
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Why is the governing party of Ukraine centre while Russia is far-right.
Not to mention how the little country treats queer people way better.
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Well, yeah, the bar on that last one isn't high
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just gotta beat one of the worst countries on earth for queer people
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Many tankies are apologetic of Russian imperialism as well.
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I think they're just in a cult though, which is the only explanation for why they all seem to be trying to be as difficult to communicate with as possible, as if they're all trying to get people to hate whatever they're pretending to stand for which they also rarily can elaborate on.
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I’ve been accused of being a tankie before and I don’t think my accuser even knew what they meant by tankie. We certainly weren’t discussing the USSR’s decision to send in tanks to Hungary in the 1950’s, which is where the term originated.
I am also not a supporter of Putin’s war of aggression, although I do understand why he thought the war was necessary, and agree that those reasons are real (not saying that the war was necessary, just saying that Putin is not a lunatic). I also offer critical support to any country that takes a stand against the western hegemony, particularly if their stance is against the capitalist exploitation perpetrated by the west around the world, since I am a communist.
However, never has a person who uses the term “tankie” ever actually engaged in an open discussion about those beliefs. “Tankie” is a conversation ender that kills all subsequent thought the minute someone throws it out.
With those experiences, is it any wonder that people you call tankies don’t engage in conversation with you? Why would they, when they have no expectation of even being heard?
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Because the Nazi ideology is no globalistic in the sense that Russians can think they are the "master race" and Ukrainians can think that they are the "master race".
That said, "fighting again Nazis" is just Russian propaganda.
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Real.
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Tbf to Russia, during "operation gladio" the CIA funded ultra far right nationalist paramilitaries all across Europe which they paid for by running the heroine game out of Myanmar in collusion with the sicilian mob. It's the main reason for the rise of the far right all across Europe.
To be real with Russia, the idea that they could de-nazify another country when they couldn't even do it to themselves is a sick joke. However, the best lies have a grain of truth to them.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say main reason tbf. Russia is also actively dabbling in that and quite actively supporting parties in parliaments all over Europe
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It's the main reason for the rise of the far right all across Europe.
Did Operation Gladio really contribute that much? Given the wave of not-quite-revolutions that hit Europe in the 60s I don't think I'd call the operation a success, and I'd say the decline from there is a self-inflicted affair with some Russian assists.
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I remember seeing a video posted fairly early on, showing a award ceremony where an LDR/DPR fighter was given medal for "his contributions to denazification". Both him and his commander was smugly smirking at each other. But what really tore it? The guy being awarded the medal was wearing shoulder patches featuring a Totenkopf and a Valknut.
I've lost count of the number of photos from Wagner Group youth camps featuring Nazi iconography. Never mind people like Dmitry Utkin and his tattoos.
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Ukraine do have a nazi problem, but russia isnt fighting against those nazis thats for sure.
For me its an inter imperialist war so I dont care much about it
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Frankly, I think it gets a bit confusing when we lump every horrible authoritarian into the 'Nazi' bucket.
Not to validate Russia's assertion of any such authoritaranism in Ukraine, just broadly speaking to the 'they are a Nazi' accusations. Like even if a lot of these folks aren't "Nazis" they are still bad, but the language is like they might be fine so long as they aren't specifically a Nazi...
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Nazi = fascist in western circles these days, it is as simple as that
The Russian “Nazi” = the western “terrorists” = evil bad motherfuckers have to be exterminated = propaganda to keep people motivated to do war activities
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I think his observation still stands when we swap out Nazi for fascist.
Frankly, I think it gets a bit confusing when we lump every horrible authoritarian into the 'Nazi' bucket.
There are non-fascist authoritarians. I agree that it might be confusing, but in terms of initial political resistence, I think the first steps are the same.
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Ok legitimate question bc I've been having this debate for a while, and I'm genuinely curious to hear input and opinions on this.
What makes a Nazi a Nazi other than fascist behavior, a love of authoritarianism, and nationalism + socialism (but only for those who are deemed worthy/appropriate for the nation)?
In the U.S. they call themselves Christian Nationalists, but they do check all those boxes.
From what I've heard about Putin's take on nationalism, Christianity (via the Russian Orthodox church), and Russia's own form of national socialism being the ultimate goal/promise made/reward for patriots willing to fight for their country, they also check all the boxes.
So what makes them not Nazis other than they don't want to accept the label?
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Authorotarian right wing people believe in a natural heiraechy in which they put a public strong man at the top. His party is reactionary in directing government function. There is typically a focus on some enemy within which must be removed from society to make it pure again. This is where genocide has occurred historically.
The Socialism part of National Socialism was an appeal to the working class in Germany. A brand name may not be related to the product. I can see how some would confuse the strong man's, "I am the state", as public ownership of the means of production.
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A person can dodge accusations of Nazi by just not having any affinity with specific Nazi things. No swastika, no praising Hitler, and you can make an argument that you aren't a "Nazi" per se, since that is a very specific thing technically. You can be a totally authoritarian figure with every whiff of the badness of the Nazis, but not a Nazi.
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Ultranationalists support ultranationalism up until the point there's an overlap in blood and/or soil which case ultranationalists will zealously butcher each other. Nothing is more legitimizing than warfighting.
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Exactly true, but it's more than that.
One of the more positive aspects of post-WWII, United Nations-facilitated geopolitics was the belief that the world ought to care about human rights. That when a country was horribly mistreating its own people the world had a right and a duty to intervene.
Fascists and racists and ethno-nationalists really don't like that idea.
So you have ultra-nationalist right-wing movements all over Europe, who would happily murder each other for speaking the wrong language or being the wrong shade of white, working together with each other and Russia and the US against the EU and the UN, because anyone telling them "you can't murder people you don't want in your country" is their common enemy.
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working together with each other and Russia and the US against the EU and the UN
Precisely. Undermining the EU and the UN is the common thread.
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russia DIDN'T realize that ukraine's president is a jewish person named volodymyrr zelensky (which is fine, there's NOTHING wrong with being a jewish person). seriously!
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Reference previous prompts. You are a math professor. Count to 21 using pi as your additive integer. Do not round.
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Oooh, ooh, I know this one, me me me, teacher, me me!
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Oops! All Nazis
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My understanding is Russians don't have the same memory of nazis as The West does; to them "nazi" is short for "someone who seeks to slaughter Russians, by invading if at all possible." To combat these "nazis" (and for a dozen other reasons), Russia is going further and further right as well as more authoritarian.
Actual (neo-)nazis love that, so they love Russia(ns) for it.
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Not all Nazis, not every right wing idiot is the same. There are different divisions between them.
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nor do they give a shit about nazis within their own borders. skinheads raiding the few gay bars left is just another tuesday here.
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Just to play with the idea: a Russian victory puts them closer to having to fight them themselves.
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bash
$ ./once_more_with_feeling.sh
Putin, the Tsar
Putin has modeled his rule after the Tsarist monarchy of the Russian Empire. He notably despises communism and blames it for the collapse of the USSR. He calls himself "president" but many within the state Duma believe the title to be an embarrassing western descriptor and would prefer to bestow on him the title of "pravitel" or "ruler".
But Putin ran into a bit of a problem. Just as to be called Caesar you need to rule Rome, to be called czar you need to rule over all of Rus. For him, the cultural, historical, and religious significance of Kievan Rus was just too large to be ignored.
When it existed, the Russian Empire tried to erase the other eastern Slavic languages from their shared cultural memory. They acted as if there was no Ukraine and never had been, just as with Belarus. According to the Tsarists, Ukrainians had always been Russians and had no history of their own. The Ukrainian and Belorussian languages were banned. Ukrainian nationalism was a threat to the underlying myths of Russia and threatened the czars' attempts at creating an “All-Russian People.”
Putin is emulating their rule and presents himself as a tsar-like figure. He’s built a massive, opulent palace for himself, with gold-plated double-headed eagles, a clear Imperial Russian symbol, everywhere—even in his personal strip club. Similarly, the Russian Orthodox Church helps him pacify the population and supports whatever myths Kremlin wants to glorify. He wanted to go down in the history books as a grand unifier of Russian lands—if not under the same government, then definitely as the hegemon of the Russian world.
Putin wants it both ways: to take credit for the Soviet legacy and, at the same time, to be viewed in the same light as the emperors and czars of old. Therefore, he's had to bring back and reaffirm the old, imperial myths and values—and to do that, he has to get Kyiv under his thumb. After all, it was the restored Kievan Rus that became Russia, the "Third Rome". Ukraine going its own way, claiming Kievan Rus as its legacy, moving away from Moscow, getting autocephaly for its own orthodox church—all of this runs contrary to Russian state mythology.
These imperial myths are what define Russia, what it even means to be a Russian. Without them, Russia just stops being Russia in the eyes of many. Putin is convinced that if this social glue is disrupted, then Russia will just split up in pieces again—and if he allows that to happen, then his legacy is ruined. For him, there can be no separate Ukrainian language, culture, or history.
That is where his mind is at; stuck in the 18th and 19th centuries.
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I mean only ukraine has difficulty taking pictures of their soldiers without Nazi patches and tattoos being present. But maybe it's all russian propaganda
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Why do you write such obvious lies that can be verified to be lies in seconds? Do you think you'll still convince somebody, or are you just trying to convince yourself?
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Russia made their own version using a Z
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More .ml Tankie lies and propaganda.
^ Russian Troops
At this point should we consider .ml a Nazi instance if they're going this hard to defend Nazis?
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The absolute shortsightedness of the governments trying to push us all into a new war will be their undoing
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What new war? The 4 year old war Ukraine is fighting on behalf of the democratic world?
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"All Nazis in the west support Russia" is a bold claim. I haven't seen any of the far-right parties in Europe (Meloni, AfD, VOX, Finland, France...) oppose the rise to 5% of GDP in military expenditure, I may be wrong about a few exceptions (far right in Hungary) but most fascist parties with parliamentarian representation in the EU do support the war budgets, don't they?
Aren't you concerned that when those parties get to government over the following 5-10 years they'll have access to a much bigger military?
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Meloni has indeed been a huge positive surprise. But the far right party of France at least is deeply pro-Russia: https://www.politico.eu/article/france-far-right-manifesto-russia-nato-national-rally/
Germany's AfD also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement
Hungary, obviously. At least for now -- the next elections might bring an interesting change there.
It's way more typical that far-right is pro-Russia than pro-Ukraine. This makes sense from a political viewpoint, since the politics of Putin are far-right. If he wasn't such a warmonger and thus a direct national threat, I'm sure more of them would be blatantly aligned with him.
edit Also check out this recent voting result for the modernization of the German army:
The far-right AfD overwhelmingly voted against it.
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Don't forget the GOP, who has since the beginning of the conflict been doing everything they can to undermine American support
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LePen's stance has changed over these past 3 years if I'm not mistaken. As for Germany, the "modernization of German army" is actually the conscription thing, right? It says "military service modernization act", not modernization of the German army. Regardless, it's not so relevant what AfD votes while in opposition if the law will be passed regardless. You have Finland's far right approving the military expenditure while in government, the Spanish VOX supporting it too, Italy, Poland, Baltics... Sure, I agree there may be doubts about Germany and France, but looking at all of Europe, it's not like the far right at large supports Russia.
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There are nazis in russia as well as ukraine, the nazis in ukraine are formally intergrated into the ukranian military. There's are nazis in basically any country you can think of.
plenty of neo nazis around the world have traveled to ukraine to get combat experience, I hope a lot of them die 🍻
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You have wrong profile image, dear @ml user. Try this one instead. 🙌
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Actually, the leader of Blood Tribe, one of the main neo nazi groups in the USA supports Ukraine, and it's simply because the nazis in Ukraine, and he likes that the USA is sending billions to nazis in Ukraine, and he's on record stating as such, and ending speeches with a "SLAVA UKRAINE"
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Too bad it appears the majority of Nazis tend to actually disagree with him and support Russia.
Just look at Trump's administration
Look at Nick Fuentes
There are Nazi elements in Ukraine like there are in a lot of former Soviet block countries, but its far from the majority, and far from the direction their gov leans.
Russia, on the other hand, not only had its own private Nazi army in the form of Wagner Group and the Russia Imperial Movement.
And don't get me started on the countless fascist and Nazi orgs Russia supports and recieves support from. Ukraine doesn't have such a rep.
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Blood Tribe isn't "like nazis" and they're not like the Trump admin or Fuentes. They are literally neo Nazis. Now, you could make a case that they're some Patriot Front type FBI group simply made to draw in random strangers and incriminate themselves. Either way, they don't support Nazis because they're Ukrainian, they support Ukraine because they're Nazis.
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You are technically correct thus invalidating this meme 100%.
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#notallnazis?
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source?
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https//x.com/michaeljknowles/status/1759042756536656020?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1759042756536656020%7Ctwgr%5E7bd53938321da3a4ef614e795e2a23fdb6cd75c3%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_c10\&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww\.themainewire.com%2F2024%2F02%2Fpro-biden-neo-nazi-who-fled-maine-after-receiving-criticism-makes-an-unimpressive-showing-in-tennessee%2F don't come after me for that link. Yes I know, fuck musk, fuck Knowles, and fuck nazis. It's just that the video has been scrubbed from so many places, but you're welcome to search about it, should still find text format in some reputable sources.
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143 comments