Alberta woman dies after being denied transplant for refusing to get COVID vaccine

Dank*

Friends literally had an episode like this.

"what's the rent??"

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Bet she wasn't an organ doner though.

The vaccine underwent the exact same rigorous testing that literally every other vaccine or medication gets. The only difference is that COVID vaccines were given a free pass to the front of the line at each step necessary. As well, due to them having a much shorter timeline and higher competition, it was economical to run multiple tests in parallel that would normally have been done in series.

It wasn't "rushed" as in sloppy, it was "rushed" in that it was given priority in the various governmental queues.

Perhaps, now that the vaccine has been around for years and there's plenty of data on its efficacy and risks, you might cite some of those risks? Because the data I've seen shows that infection is still much worse for your health than vaccination, regardless of whether or not you are "young and healthier." I would be very interested to see what data you have that shows otherwise. I quite like being proven wrong.

That does not mean it does not have risks that

The benefits outweigh the risks, even in the young and healthy, so the vaccines are recommended to everyone.

The vaccine went so fast because most of the part was already known and they had solution for other covid variants. They only needed to adapt it to attack the correct part of this covid 19 virus. It wasn't a new study. It wasn't rushed. And this person wasn't healthy but terminal. Healthy, lol.

I don't understand this logic. It had to be quickly developed because the entire world population was affected by COVID. We're talking about millions of deaths. Economies halted, everything literally went stand still and you expected the vaccine to take 3 years to develop?

I'm sure it might have sounded scary to have medicine developed so rapidly but I don't think you realize the scale at how it was developed because so many countries and companies dumped a ton of money researching a cure out the door as fast as possible.

Sure there are side-effects but in that case the side effects were worth having versus the deaths of high risk individuals.

Edit: reduced sensationalism

You don't have the remote idea of how vaccines eradicate illnesses.

Someone needing an organ transplant doesn't sound like "younger" or "healthier" people.
According to your criteria, regardless of vaccine efficacy: this sounds like someone that should have been vaccinated.

This is stupid on several levels, but I ain't got time for all that so I'll just point out that this lady wasn't younger or healthier, given that she died without an organ transplant, and had she received a transplant she would be one of the vulnerable people on immunosupprressants. So even this stupid ass argument doesn't apply in this situation.

Ah yes the young healthy person who needs an organ transplant. Can't forget about that demographic.

What messed with your brain

Blocking this shit, and reporting.

Why don't you idiots stay in your safe spaces?

It's ok to be autistic. You don't have to try and blame it on a vaccine.

Wow. Just wow.

Yup. Literally the worst thing that could have happened to her had she taken the vaccine happened to her because she didn't take the vaccine. Maybe they'll put a monument to her on top of the hill that she chose to die on.

I was hoping to turn into a magnetic monkey with 5G tracking chips. No such luck.

The best few minutes of the pandemic for me was watching my 15 year old autistic daughter disassemble and completely humiliate a reality-denying mid-50s angry man at a farmers market. It was glorious.

This vaccine was so incredibly safe that it's ridiculous that she chose to die rather than getting it.

Unlike the transplant meds. Pretty large increase for cancer from them.

Seems weird to refuse a COVID vaccine, but be fine swallowing a ton of meds every 12 hours that increases your risk of cancer significantly.

Obviously me and many others accept that increased risk, because like you said, the other outcome is just dying straight up.

In the end I'm glad the organ went to someone else who will respect and appreciate it.

Highlighting her fundamental lack of critical thinking skills.

On a related note, go fill out your donor card people. Even if you’re one of those “nobody will want my organs” type of people, do it anyways. The transplant people will figure out if your organs are viable when you no longer need them anymore. Let them figure that shit out for you. Just check the box to be a donor and don’t think about it any further.

and the stupid rumour about "the doctors will kill me to save 8 others" is bullshit. I am glad my donor signed. His wife said she didn't want him to, but seeing me live because of his selflessness made her reconsider, and she tells everyone to be a donor.

Don't just put it on your license either. In many places that isn't legally binding. Have a conversation with your partner/children/parents who are going to have legal authority over your body while brain dead and tell them you want to be a donor.

You're less likely to get a transplant if you're more likely to ruin it based on your lifestyle.

Language will evolve naturally over time. But to claim that hoping your children are intelligent/physically healthy is a form of eugenics is absurd. If QAnon was left-leaning, this is the kind of shit they would say.

Oh shut up already.

no u

Ugh. $125k to get an organ transplant in the US without the vaccine. Also, the stupid tweet speculating that vaccines aren't required to donate organs. Nope, they absolutely aren't. Idiots. Imbeciles. Morons. It's absolutely infuriating that people can be so willingly ignorant.

Sure, hospitals willing and able to do organ transplants are rare, but that's because organs to transplant are exceptionally rare. Other than kidney donations, and I think liver (IIRC), all organ transplants require someone to die, and to die under pretty controlled conditions so that their organs are still in a usable condition. For every organ transplant that occurs, there are a dozen others that die waiting.

To give this woman an organ transplant is to deny someone else an organ transplant. The question is not whether she should get an organ transplant despite not taking every reasonable measure to increase the odds of that organ contributing to a longer and healthier life; but rather who else dies if she doesn't want to take every reasonable measure.

The fundamental calculus of organ donation is not everyone who needs one will get one. Who will benefit the most? This is absolutely the practical application of those philosophical paradoxes where you are asked to pick which life to save under various circumstances.

Her whole case reeks of the entitlement that oozes from the Convoy protesters. I shouldn't be inconvenienced, I shouldn't have to compromise to help others. I should get to live, screw everyone else.

I have a friend who got a lung transplant around 10 years ago. It's a little unnerving how bloodthirsty I got whenever I saw an aggressive motorcycle driver. "I hope they are an organ donor" became my new curse. I wasn't exactly wishing death upon people, but it was sobering to feel how mixed my feelings became knowing a friend was waiting for an organ donation.

The inverse of this story of this woman dying is the story of everyone who skipped past her in line. One of those organs could have been hers. I'd like to hear stories about people whose lives were saved.

What a dumnass. In her Pyrrhic victory not to be made into a 5g zombie (or whatever nonsense she might have believed) she stood her ground and died like an idiot. She gets no tears from me.

I've had...4 different vaccines.

A-Z sore arm for a day and a splitting headache for two days. ASA resolved it.

M sore arm for three days and a mild headache. ASA resolved it.

P x 2 no appreciable sore arm and no headache.

PBiV - no appreciable sore arm and no headache.

Don't forget being banned from eating in restaurants where the owners put up "we don't call 911" signs and Salad isn't on the menu.

And it’s her choice to live die with.

This is such a paradoxical statement, because if she did get the vaccine willingly, then no one would consider her to be an idiot and thus see no issue with her getting the transplant.

Petulant is such a great word for all these people.

As a lib.. I feel so owned.

If she won’t jump through that hoop, how many others will she refuse down the road?

“Taking this anti-rejection medication offends my conscience. These drugs are chemicals!”

“Getting an hour of cardio a day offends me, I should decide what activities I perform.”

“Being told to keep my BMI in the healthy range to keep my transplant healthy is offensive and is implying I’m fat.”

Transplant teams want compliant patients. Refusing a vaccine right off the bat means you are the non-compliant type who likely won’t be a success.

It would mean she had to admit she was wrong.

For an "experimental vaccine" it's had a pretty amazing job at limiting the severity of covid and reducing deaths. If only all experiments were that successful

🎼This was a triumph🎶
🎼I'm making a note here: “huge success”🎶

Seriously, the experiment is over. The stuff works great. That is not a valid excuse.

Seems like it's been that way for a while...

Transplant candidates must also receive the seasonal influenza and hepatitis B vaccines, follow other healthy behaviors, and demonstrate they can commit to taking the required medications following transplant.

Nevermind you trying to misrepresent the subject by saying it's a flu vaccine.

Why sentence somebody that wants to live to die ( by denying them a transplant ) so that the organ can be wasted on somebody making choices inconsistent with survival.

All transplants have waiting lists. Getting an organ probably means denying one to somebody else.

The headline should be “Idiot sacrifices their life opening a spot for somebody smarter to live”.

Since getting the flu will probably kill you with all the immunosuppressants you have to take for life in order to not reject the transplant. They didn't want to waste the organ on an idiot who can't follow simple rules when someone who wants to live could use it

Not vaccinating against an infection puts you at dramatically increased risk of poor outcomes. When deciding who gets a lifesaving organ, you have to consider chance of success and the chance that person can follow through with the rigorous regimen for successful outcome. This is the same reason drug users are denied organs. This is nothing unusual or unethical. She can choose not to get vaccinated, and doctors will choose a more suitable recipient for the organ.

Organ transplant recipients have a weakened immune system for months to years afterwards, in large part due to immune suppressants taken to prevent organ rejection.

That does not go well with being unvaccinated in a pandemic. The vaccination gives you a fighting chance even with weakened immune system, but without you're screwed.

When a life saving transplant you need has prerequisites and you refuse to meet them, you have refused the life saving transplant.

Simple enough?

There is a very limited supply of organs. They need to give them to people who have the best chance of success and longevity.

It literally was. She had the choice to get vaccinated and get it. She choose not to and die. That is an extremely easy choice. Which part of that is not having a choice?

“It was not her choice to die”. Please explain. It looks to me like it very much was.

The "my body my choice, I should be allowed to take that risk" crowd when the risk turns out poorly for them.

"She didn't choose to risk her life by not getting the vaccine. She chose to risk your life by not getting the vaccine!"

Actually smokers who haven’t quit don’t get lung transplants either. Same with alcoholics who keep drinking, they are not put on the waiting list for liver transplants. There is a whole list of requirements you need to follow before you are even considered for a transplant. One of them is being fully vaccinated.

Should we keep people from dying from lung cancer because they smoked? Should we not try to help people dying from liver disease because they're alcoholics?

When the smoker/drinker fully admits they have zero intention of quitting, I would much rather give my lung/liver to someone who isn't going to get a full, healthy life out of it, rather than someone who clearly would rather continue abusing it and burn through it in a couple years.

Organs are a limited resource, that's why there is a list - and we should absolutely dedicate limited resources to doing as much good as possible

We respect those who have given life as their final act by making sure their organs aren't wasted.

Those going through organ transplants are immunocompromised and it is especially important that they be vaccinated. Giving someone who is rejecting medical advice related directly to the transplant and it's aftermath isn't something we can do while there's an organ shortage.

You have to remember that anyone that receives an organ is another that don't. doctors are very strict to not give organs to ppl that can suddenly stop taking meds to keep a thing so important working, receiving an organ is not a right, is a gift from someone that died to keep another alive.

If you were in the wilderness with only 1 dose of Narcan and you had to choose between administering it to a drug addict dying from a bender, or their 8 year old that accidentally got into what was causing their parent to OD who would you give the single dose to? That is the kind of decision being made here.

Your example of narcan doesn't even make sense - no one has to die for there to be more narcan. They just make more. So yeah, obviously we should give people narcan even if they're making bad choices. People dying of lung cancer or liver disease require someone to die (or at least permanently give up part of an essential organ, in the case of livers), and we can't just go to the pharmacy and pick up some spare organs just in case. It's part of the deal that you don't get an organ if you don't meet a whole bunch of criteria, like being sober, getting vaccines, generally doing as much as possible to ensure the success of the transplant, because there's someone else who will. Maybe they can't change the past behavior that got them in the situation, but choosing not to change current/future behavior is absolutely grounds for denial.

If they plan to continue smoking or heavily drinking, then yes we should skip over to the next person on the list.

If they refuse to take up the lifestyle changes or follow medical advice, the organ should be used for the next person on the list.

People who've got transplants need to take immunosuppressants to reduce risk of rejection. Making them much more vulnerable to COVID. If the person is adamantly refusing the vaccine for bogus conspiracy theory reasons - it doesn't give me much confidence that they would even follow through on other medical advice to prevent rejection.

There's a finite number of organs at play here, that's why all the conditions.

That comparison makes no sense lol. You can get a vaccine for zero downsides at any point in time with next to no inconvenience. And you compare that to someone dying of lung cancer?? Especially when lungs are extremely limited and they are clearly showing they don't care. You can't say the same about the other comparisons you've made and that's why it makes no sense.

Should we not give narcan to OD'd drug addicts

A lot of people would say no to this. From a personal perspective I'd say "depends on the circumstance but not repeatedly of signify continues to use".

As for smoking/alcohol and transplants... yes they did and those are already exclusionary factors.

Agree. Vaccinations are important, especially in the case of transplants.

This is how kinks are acquired isn't it?

At least she can't hurt anyone anymore with her votes

Damn