9mo ago

As bans spread, fluoride in drinking water divides communities across the US

kffhealthnews.org As Bans Spread, Fluoride in Drinking Water Divides Communities Across the US - KFF Health News

The broad availability of over-the-counter dental products containing fluoride has some community leaders arguing that its addition to public drinking water is no longer necessary. But public health experts worry that, much like vaccines, fluoridation may be a victim of its own success.

…

It is a scenario playing out nationwide. From Oregon to Pennsylvania, hundreds of communities have in recent years either stopped adding fluoride to their water supplies or voted to prevent its addition. Supporters of such bans argue that people should be given the freedom of choice. The broad availability of over-the-counter dental products containing the mineral makes it no longer necessary to add to public water supplies, they say. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that while store-bought products reduce tooth decay, the greatest protection comes when they are used in combination with water fluoridation.

The outcome of an ongoing federal case in California could force the Environmental Protection Agency to create a rule regulating or banning the use of fluoride in drinking water nationwide. In the meantime, the trend is raising alarm bells for public health researchers who worry that, much like vaccines, fluoride may have become a victim of its own success.

The CDC maintains that community water fluoridation is not only safe and effective but also yields significant cost savings in dental treatment. Public health officials say removing fluoride could be particularly harmful to low-income families — for whom drinking water may be the only source of preventive dental care.

“If you have to go out and get care on your own, it’s a whole different ballgame,” said Myron Allukian Jr., a dentist and past president of the American Public Health Association. Millions of people have lived with fluoridated water for years, “and we’ve had no major health problems,” he said. “It’s much easier to prevent a disease than to treat it.”

According to the anti-fluoride group Fluoride Action Network, since 2010, over 240 communities around the world have removed fluoride from their drinking water or decided not to add it.

371 comments

So lead, plastic, and PFAS are fine but fluoride is where they draw the line…?
- They're also against vaccines because supposedly vaccines will damage their DNA... whereas apparently PFAS don't.
- This

I am SO tired of being at the mercy of idiots.
- “Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups” -George Carlin

No, people shouldn't have the right to choose if fluoride is added to their water. People are stupid. You vote to remove something that will greatly help children that can't vote. The government's job, sometimes, is to stop stupid people from hurting others and their selves. That's the reason you can't drink raw milk or use lead gas.
- The raw milk thing is actually part of the reason the FDA was formed!
- That's the reason you can't drink raw milk or use lead gas.
  You can get raw milk if your state allows it. The federal government bans it, but only has regulatory authority over interstate commerce, so it can't be moved across state boundaries, but you can get it if it's made in-state.
  I mean, I think that you're mostly aiming to expose yourself to listeria, but if that's what someone wants...
  My guess is that dairy farmers have an interest in promoting it in that if they can sell it, it gives them a market without much competition.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_raw_milk_debate
  
  Drinking milk was a bad example. I should have said sell unpasteurized milk. The point I think we both agree is that stupid for people make stupid decisions. Just like I don't think people can decide about vaccines that have very low risk rates. It effects everyone, not just the idiots.
  
  can we compromise on drinking raw milk with flouride added?
  
  Well, and TB.
- Just let them die then, rather than trying to make them age where they don't want to.
  
  That is a completely different argument and has nothing to do with the topic.
- Of course you can drink raw milk if you want to!
- Btw, cooking milk destroys some of the good stuff in it.
  Edit: Raw milk has proteins which boost immune system and growth (because it's for baby cows), which break down while cooking.
  And yeah, probably don't drink raw milk in US.
  
  And all the things that kill you.
  
  I'm sure small doses of cyanide has benefits too.
- Where does "no, people don't have the right to choose if [chemical] is added to their bloodstream, because they are stupid" stop? Who determines when it's "stupid" not to add a chemical to the water supply, and to whom do they answer? If the voting public decides to override public officials on a matter like this, you're basically saying they shouldn't have the "right" to vote the officials out on those grounds. You're basically saying this is some kind of extraordinary policy matter that obviously needs to be insulated from the kind of democratic review pretty much all other municipal policies are subject to. And we're talking about dumping a chemical in the water supply as a substitute for having good public health infrastructure in our country.
  If you're a Republican, well, they're inconsistent, evil psychos, I don't expect much from them to make sense. But if you're a Democrat.... if you're a democrat.........
  EDIT no really, explain it to me, don't just downvote me. Why should a highly technocratic public health policy that achieves only one public health goal, and isn't even the only way to do it, be beyond democratic review? This literally makes less than no fucking sense. Also, the rules on raw milk and lead in gasoline are also subject to democratic review. They don't get challenged because there are basically no downsides to those policies and literally the only people who are negatively impacted are people invested in the industries in question. People get iffy about fluoridation because there are corner cases that cause problems for individuals, so it's actually a public health tradeoff and you can avoid those tradeoffs with different policies (like universal public health care + fluoridation regimes) -- ie, you can achieve the benefits of fluoridation without negatively impacting anyone. The cost-benefit ratio of water fluoridation is literally different to those other policies, which is why nobody complains about unleaded gasoline but they do complain about fluoridation in water.
  If nothing else, does anything strike you as half-cocked about comparing clean, potable, treated drinking water without fluoride to leaded gasoline? Do you refuse to drink un-fluoridated drinking water because of the permanent and irreversible health effects of being exposed to literally any quantity of unfluoridated potable water?
  
  Unfortunately your point is a false agreement. The chemical in question has been studied for decades and has little to no negative impact on general public. A few people don't warrant a total ban. Everything will effect someone at some point. It's science not magic. A better education system and removing pointless arguments ( religion, anti sponsored studies ) would help inform people. I sure most people don't know fluoride is poisonous but so is vitamin D, C, and E. The dose is so high that you would have to eat it like cady straight.
  I'm not antidemocratic, though the "let states decide" movement is making me reevaluate that. I'm more of a "let educated and qualified" people have a high stance then "it's turn the frogs gay" crowd. It is a difficult conversation but we have to advance as a society. This is not advancing. Also I agree universal healthcare would be a wonderful, but that shouldn't excuse something that is universal beneficial.
- Yes they should. Ingesting fluoride is bad for you, and it doesn't help your teeth to drink it. That's why small children's toothpaste doesn't have it, because you can't trust them not to eat it. It's only good when applied directly to the teeth, which can be accomplished on a daily basis by using toothpaste with fluoride and/or a mouthwash containing it, both of which you don't drink.
  Fluoride is removed from my drinking water by my reverse-osmosis filtration system, along with all the other contaminants like PFAS and lead. I've been drinking fluoride-free water for 10 years, and my teeth are beautiful and healthy. Anyone who drinks bottled water is also probably drinking fluoride-free water since those companies mostly use the same filtration method to produce their bottled water.
  
  Do you have evidence?

We live in the time of the most readily available and advanced information yet continually make the dumbest fucking decisions.
“Cavities…yeah….goddamn hadn’t had one of those in awhile, we should bring those back.”
- I’d like to chime in that fluoridation plus a toothpaste containing hydroxyapatite is a game changer; my kids went from several cavities a year to almost none. You used to have to buy japanese toothpastes for this, but it’s starting to show up in america.
- What are you talking about?
  People get cavities all the time, and it's because they don't brush their damn teeth.
- you know they put fluoride in toothpaste right? if you're not getting enough from that your water isn't going to make up the difference.
  
  It demonstrably makes a huge difference, even with people who brush on a regular basis.
  
  Let us suppose that brushing alone gives you maximum benefit you can get from fluoride.
  There are people out there who can't brush their teeth as often as they should, for reasons outside their control. Why should we deprive them of the benefit of fluorinated water? It makes no difference to us. Would you rather live in a world with more tooth problems, or fewer?
  
  The article addresses this. They explicitly state that this decision will disproportionately effect poorer people whose only preventative care may be drinking water. In order for this to be as effective as having fluoride in the water supply, you'd have to find some way to get said toothpaste to these poorer people AND ensure compliance. So, definitely not as easy as just removing the fluoride and letting toothpaste handle it.
  
  As a child you can't brush your adult teeth that haven't grown in yet, but you can drink fluoridated water and have it deposit in your adult teeth as they are growing making them stronger than they otherwise would have been for the rest of your life.
  
  CDC
  Community water fluoridation has been identified as the most cost-effective method of delivering fluoride to all members of the community regardless of age, educational attainment, income level, and the availability of dental care. In studies conducted after other fluoride products, such as toothpaste, were widely available, scientists found additional reductions in tooth decay – up to 25 percent – among people with community water fluoridation as compared to those without fluoridation.
  
  Do you drink your toothpaste?

The UK used the same argument to stop the addition of iodine to salt. "People already consume enough dietary iodine". You know what happened? Thyroid diseases are on the rise in the UK again, slowly creeping back to early XX century levels.
- I think iodine is underappreciated. But also I think fewer and fewer people use the salt shaker because they eat so much processed food (which has salt that is not iodized). Then you're down to milk and seafood. Milk gets it because they use iodine to sanitize the udders. So if you don't drink milk and who eats seafood on most days. Solution to anyone reading: multivitamin.
  
  But also I think fewer and fewer people use the salt shaker because they eat so much processed food (which has salt that is not iodized).
  This. I never add salt to my cooking because there's already so much salt in everything.
- Same with Switzerland

You can't trust this stuff. I only drink water straight from the creek and- excuse me, my diarrhea is acting up.
- What a bad faith argument.
  Most people who want to avoid fluoride in their drinking water use reverse osmosis.
  
  Then I guess there's a solution and we don't need to remove it for everyone else.

Ban the fluoride and give universal dental care like Canada is planning.
A pipe dream. The dummies will likely just ban the fluoride with no other plan or solution.
- Or, ya know, keep the fluoride in the water and also give universal dental care. Removing the fluoride from the water is the more expensive solution.
  
  Yeah.
  God forbid we do something expensive if it's to improve people's health...
- Yeah, so few people advocate for this though. It's either fluoridation is unbalancing my humors or let's fluoridate a bunch of water that will go down the drain.
- You know that eventually free healthcare is still paid by everyone ? Why add the cost of generally preventable tooth decay to the tab? It’s not mutually exclusive…
  
  Free universal healthcare is cheaper than the current US system for a whole pile of reasons, mainly by consolating the consumer into one giant bargaining group. But there are secondary savings, like enabling people to get regular check ups to catch things early before they get expensive. It also enables them to go to the doctor when they need it, instead of gambling that they'll get better; it's cheaper if many people go in for small things than if a few people go in for large things.
  
  US healthcare is the most expensive healthcare in the world because it can push people and insurance companies around. The rest of the 1st world pays LESS than the US does for itd healthcare because governments have the power to tell healthcare providers to go fuck themselves if they try and charge too much
  
  “Free Healthcare” is free as in libre, not free as in beer.
  Everyone is free to get it. We all pay for it. We would pay far less than what we pay now in premiums. It works on other countries, and there is no reason it wouldn’t work here in the USA.
  
  yeah and a car accident is generally preventable too.
  how about an impacted wisdom tooth? should have thought about that before growing teefs nerd, enjoy your crippling debt.

USA, can you PPEASE remform your education system and actually ensure that everyone gets a normal and good education? Your idiots are ruining the country.
Also while at it, use that education to teach the kids what freedom really is, how little you really have of it, that boasting about it is dumb, and that using it to make idiotic decisions doesn't make you look awesome, it makes you look like, well, an idiot.
- De-education has been an agenda of one of the parties since the eighties, and we're just seeing it take fruit now.
  These things take time, and that party plays the 'long game'.

Supporters of such bans argue that people should be given the freedom of choice.
If you honestly don't want fluoride, you can remove it yourself.
Honestly, if you're that paranoid about anything in your drinking water, you'd probably benefit from outright distilling it anyway.
- They don't get the choice of whether or not their water is purified either. Damn gubmint!
  
  I mean, people do pay more for mineral water. Yesterday, I was at CVS, and there were at least three sections of refrigerated cabinet consisting of different brands of mineral water.
  But if someone wants to produce hard water, I'm sure that they can do that too.
  googles
  https://www.amazon.com/iSpring-FA15-Water-Filter-Clear/dp/B00FBLGD1S/
  Yeah. From the "related filters" section on that, looks like there's a whole industry of selling people things they can jam inline into their reverse osmosis filter system to do things to their water to make them happy. This one adds "calcium, magnesium, and potassium".
  I don't see much on there by way of numbers as to what concentrations it's supposed to produce, but I suppose that if it makes people happy, it's available. Not like they're getting any guarantees as to how hard their municipal water is either.
- They can buy bottled water and pay for their stupidity.
- You can't remove fluoride using standard water filters, or even high-end RO filter systems. A specialized fluoride-specific filtration system (multi-stage) is required due to fluoride's chemical bond.

We need to stop letting the village idiots make policy.
- We need to stop letting the conservatives make policy.
  FTFY
  
  You just repeated what OP said.
  
  That would require a large community effort to resist occupation.
- Yes we definitely need to get rid of this democracy thing /s
  
  The problem with our current democracy is that we haven't enshrined education as a right. Democracy works great if the population is informed and has critical thinking skills. In America, any stupid idea that becomes popular enough can become the law, because the population is too stupid to make pragmatic, evidence-based decisions.
  
  The first thing is not so much less democracy, but more participation. I'm definitely guilty of this myself, so not trying to be holier than thou preachy. Conservatives have been doing a concerted effort to take over lower level offices as well, school boards, municipal positions, etc. Part of the issue seems ro be the people who want to do this stuff often have an ulterior motive, and people who should probably be in these spots have a lack of interest.
  
  If you want to protect democracy maybe don't defend the worst examples of it.
  
  The christofascists are trying to destroy democracy. The village idiots are their brown shirts.
- Funnily enough, the idiots do have a grain a truth here, that grain just happens to be an example of the internet's favorite, Dunning-Kruger.
  Excess flouride does have profound negative effects on intelligence. Several hundreds times the levels you get positive effects for tooth health from, and thus well beyond the scope of flouridation programs. There are also other notable side effects from flouride toxicity, so it'd be quite noticable.
  There are even several regions of America and China where they need deflouridation treatments for ground water, but the conspiracy types never seem to mention those.
  They also don't seem to note that flouride toxicity, like lead toxicity, leads to both decreased intelligence and increased aggression.
  How making the working class angry and dumb makes them easier for the owner class to control and profit from never seems to come up.
  
  Lead exposure also causes reduced intelligence.
  Leaded gasoline was still a thing when I was a kid.
  Lead paint chips are delicious.
  And those Stanley cups that suburbia is raging over, also contains lead.
  
  Excess of ANYTHING leads to brain damage or death
  
  How making the working class angry and dumb makes them easier for the owner class to control and profit from never seems to come up.
  Ask the folks at the Jan 6th riot. Trump played them all like fiddles.

Americans won the battle to bring back measles
Now they’re fighting to bring back tooth decay
- Article mentions multiple places in Canada doing the same thing. I am sure you read the article and knew that.
  
  Did I touch a nerve? I was making a joke
- Guys doubling fisting 64oz Big Gulps won that war ages ago
  
  Reverse osmosis filtered bottled water too

People can be fucking ignorant and unfortunately Covid made this all worse. There are simple measures we can take as a society to make everyone’s health better but people succumb to misinformation spread by those who profit from the alternative.
- I don't think covid really made it worse, it just appeared at the right time.
  The world has just gone bonkers with misinformation.

It’s only “fluoride” if it’s from the Florida region of the United States of America—otherwise it’s just a sparkling inorganic, monatomic anion of fluorine.
- Common misconception - to Floridate water, a man wrestles an aligator and one of them must pee in it.
  
  The water, or the alligator?

Not this shit again. This pseudo-scientific nonsense has been debunked numerous times already. You would think that this would be a dead conspiracy theory but here we are debating this once more. This is what happens when you have an scientifically illiterate population.
- This is what happens when you have an scientifically illiterate population.
  It's the old Alex Jones "turning the frogs gay" line. Just enough science to hurt yourself with.
- I wanted to watch the video, but piped isn’t working. Can you help with another link, 🔗 or not, no biggie?
  
  I went ahead and just linked it to the Youtube link. Should be working now.
- On a more positive note if they lose their teeth they might have less luck at reproduction. Problem fixes itself, fingers crossed
  
  From personal experience in dealing with people without as many teeth as the average, it doesn't stop them. R selection strategies in action.
- Do your point a favor, remove the n from an

When the tap water is "cloudy, bubbly, and milky" I think of a thousand different reasons why this could be. Flourid is not on that list.
If the tap water looks like that, I'd have the installarion checked before anything else. And I would not put it beyond an American water provider to deliver absolutely shitty water.
- There are plenty of places that deliver bubbly, cloudy, milky water and it ain’t from fluoride

This sounds like that Simpsons episode where the school board votes down the "free recharging of fire extinguishers". They aren't even saying that their might be problems with floride, they just want choice for the option of choices sake. What is next, freedom to push your children into traffic?
- they just want choice for the option of choices sake.
  This is a common talking point for people who can’t otherwise justify their position. It’s the “because I said so” of arguing. You see it a lot with far right talking points, where they’ll frame it as freedom of choice, when it’s really just an excuse to pander to conspiracy theorists, the extremely religious, racists, homophobes, etc…
  “The civil war wasn’t about slavery; it was about states’ rights.”
  “If I want to refuse service to a gay couple, that should be my choice.”
  “If I want to refuse service to a mixed race couple, that should be my choice.”
  
  For some reason, they never came around on the Pro-Choice movement, though
- Children yearn for the streets; It has been far too long since it was commonplace for them to beg for bread, freezing in the cold, yearning for Scrooge's pocketbook.
- But, but, but... states rights.

Just another pest boil of the lack of scientific education in the US. Anti-Vaxx, Anti-Flouride, Anti-Science in general. Do you guys want to go back to the age of pilgrim fathers, or what?
- these people? dude they yearn for the "rural settler life" of course they want to go back to the good old, god fearing, sustenance farmers and factory workers
  
  And tooth rot. Like dental care isn't expensive and overlooked enough.
  
  Let them go back there, I won't stop them from being killed by preventable diseases, maimed by wild animals, and, most importantly, no phones and no internet.
- Seriously though isn't that what making everything "great again" in this country is referring to?
- I mean, most western countries don't add fluoride to their water supply, as ingesting significant amounts of fluoride is bad for you. America is an outlier there, as far as I'm aware.
  There's usually small amounts occurring naturally in water. However, we shouldn't be adding in more, as it's cytotoxic and were not supposed to injest it.
  
  Western countries do add fluoride, but it's done regionally depending on natural fluoride content of local water (or, specifically, lack of it).
  
  Well, the US probably adds too much, but a certain minimum level is needed. In some countries, flourides are delivered by other means, e.g. salt.

Ugh! This is why we can't we have nice things.
Send these idiots to 5th grade science class, and don't let them out until they pass with at least a C.
We had a fairly popular game show here called Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?, and collectively, the answer is apparently "no, we're not".
- But.. these people are on the school board deciding what can be taught in science class
- Clearly the solution is to make fifth graders dumber 🫠
  
  Republicans are literally trying.

JFC this again? I thought all these conspiracy wackadoos had moved on to dumber and crazier things.
- Apparently not:
  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/opinion/alex-jones-wellness-conspiracy.html
  When Owen Shroyer, an anchor and reporter for Infowars, took the stand late last month in the defamation trial of his boss, the far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, he was asked about the many health products for sale on Jones’s site. Among them: diet pills, fluoride-free toothpaste that Jones once claimed “kills the whole SARS-corona family at point-blank range” and InstaHard, a supplement whose purpose I probably don’t have to spell out.
  
  I kinda want you to spell out what InstaHard does

God i wish my community fluoridated its water. Just had a kid, and anything to help prevent cavities is amazing, and low levels of floride is such an easy, risk free and cheap solution.
- Buy fluoridated water for your kid, don't dose the population with drugs in their water.
  None of that conspiracy stuff matters, it doesn't matter if fluoride is 100% safe. Don't put drugs in tap water.
  
  but what if the water is naturally too high in fluoride. should we not use "drugs" to remove the flouride to bring it back to safe levels?
  Should we remove the "calcium drug" that is in groundwater too? and trace iron? those are drugs the same way fluoride is, should we be removing them?
  What about the chlorine we add to water to make sure water remains safe. thats a "drug", isnt it? should we only ship raw water, and just accept some people will die?
  Or should we put on our bigboy pants, and deal with reality?
- WTF? No, you shouldn't want it added randomly to the water. I grew up with well water and my teeth are fine, don't buy into the bullshit.
  
  N=1 case study from a radically biased individual or multiple rigorous studies by people who understand public health. I just don't know what to believe!
  
  I grew up with well water as a child and my baby teeth were wrecked. Adult teeth had fluoride and are fine (for the most part)
  So there's an anecdotal experience that counters yours
  
  Oh, great - a "I didn't have that and look at me. I'm fine. You shouldn't have it either." person.
  
  This has the same kind of vibe as the old people who speak fondly about the good old days back when not even kids had to wear seat belts or be in car seats.
  "And I survived!"
  
  you grew up on well water, which is often high in fluoride.
  You likely benefited from high fluoride, and just didnt realize it.
  
  Meanwhile, I grew up with fluoride added to the water and only had one maybe two minor cavities by the time I was 25, then moved to a place that has such shitty city water everyone heavily filters it, so even if fluoride is added, the filtering removes most of it, and I have had so many dental problems since, not a single one without at least one filling, and several crowns... So there, my anecdote cancels yours.

Fun fact: adding flouride to drinking water is illegal in my country and I think it has always been illegal.
We do have it in varying quantities in our drinking water but that's apparently because of our geography. We also have maximum limits like many other countries do.
People with their own water wells are more likely to have elevated levels of fluoride in their water.

PRECIOUS
BODILY
FLUIDS!

Teeth....the haves vs. the haves not....another Florida experiment.

They should change nothing and say that they got rid of it. It's not like these people are smart enough to tell the difference.

I had great teeth as a kid, but then moved out to the boonies with well water, 5-6 years later I started getting cavities (while still getting fluoride at the dentist twice a year). My teeth have been nothing but problems since.
Now our town water refuses to add fluoride and a bunch of my son’s school mates already have fillings in kindergarten.
- My two older kids had fluoride in their city water and youngest never did. Lots cavities in that one kid

Are we sure these people don't just want to ban Florida but have a spelling problem?
- Solid

Just fighting against the most insidious of communist plots.
- Have you noticed that I only drink grain alcohol or rain water?
  
  To be fair, there's still a ton of areas in the US with questionable drinking water.
  I honestly wouldn't criticize them if they chose to drink alcohol like in the old days to avoid diseases from unsanitary water.
  I mean, just look at Flint :(

Solved it guys, Introducing T-dazzle, a safe fun and natural system to keep your sparklies sparkling. You can even earn discounts on your long term dental checkups by using it.

Oh good. Whats old is new again.
Flouride conspiracies are old hat compared to most of the bullshit thats been bandied about in the past 10 years.

Fun fact: spreading conspiracy theories about the evils of fluoride in the water (it's mind control! pollutes our precious bodily fluids!) was one of the talking points that crypto-fascists threw against the wall to see if it would stick- if you recall the line about your "precious bodily fluids" in Dr. Strangelove, that was a nod to that particular vein of conspiracy theory that was making the rounds in the far-loony fringes of what was then the Republican party

Supporters of such bans argue that people should be given the freedom of choice.
I truly do not mean to belittle anyone who holds this opinion, but isn't this such a minor thing to be worried so much about, to try to prevent?
I just mean there seems to be like a hundred other things that would be more important to discuss before we get to fluoride in the water.
- No one is forcing them to drink tap water with fluoride in it. They can buy purified water if they're that afraid of it.
  I bet the same people that are worried about fluoride have never had their tap water actually tested to see what their pipes might be leeching.
  
  They can buy purified water if they’re that afraid of it.
  Or get various devices to remove it.
  A water distiller is the big hammer, will take everything out.
  https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Water-Distilling-Distillation-Countertop/dp/B0CSFQZ89V/
- People don't trust "the government" to add a chemical they don't understand to their water.
  
  People don’t trust “the government” to add a chemical they don’t understand to their water.
  You're not saying anything new to me.
  My point is that this is such an old discussion to be rehashing again, and even if there's validity to the point to discuss, if you triage everything that's going wrong these days, I would say fluoride in the water is so low on the triage list.
  In other words, my question was not if it's a real issue or not, but prioritizing the issue high by bringing it up again and again, throughout the decades. More important things to worry about, basically.

It's the one good thing we got from Fluorine chemistry.
And they don't want it.

They're after our precious body fluids.
Have you ever seen a communist drink water, major?
- Thankfully some of us are able to interpret what's going on correctly.
  Loss of essence.

Stupid upcoming second Dark Ages. Things were just starting to get interesting.
Welp, does anyone need good bleeding with leaches and some infected nasty turnip that is all-natural whole food?

Fluoridation is part of a communist conspiracy to sap and impurity all our bodily fluids.
Powerful men have been worried about it since the Cold War.
Great, if dramatic, video on the subject: https://piped.video/watch?v=J67wKhddWu4
- I... first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love. Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I... I do deny them my essence.
- The video isn't working and your words don't make sense General Jack D. Ripper : Do you realise that fluoridation - is the most monstrously-conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? this view was regarded as a fringe idea in the 60s

All I can think about is Dr Strangelove.
Well, they're fighting hard against that commie plot and winning.

yall talking about fluoride? Out here we're talking about someone stealing water from us. Because apparently that's a thing that's actually genuinely happening out here.
Just don't look at the part where we're lowering the water table to irreversible levels, that's definitely not a problem, we swear.

The best is there will be hard, medical and scientific data to absorb and see if cavities spike in these areas and compare them to past data. I might have a hypothesis of what will happen.
- The article already has one example: “Juneau, Alaska, voted to remove fluoride from its drinking water in 2007. A study published in the journal BMC Oral Health in 2018 compared the dental records of children and adolescents who received dental care for decaying teeth four years before and five years after the city stopped adding fluoride to the water. Cavity-related procedures and treatment costs were significantly higher in the latter group, the study found.”

I say life begins at arousal... NO FLUORIDE!
https://youtu.be/2BlJRtsQrgo?si=VggUJYscYg-x22fG
- When Life imitates Art.

i don't drink tap water, i don't think as many people do generally in the US as they used to 20 years ago, there's a lot of reasons for that, but it would be interesting to see how much fluoride the average person takes in from drinking water to begin with nowadays
- A friend of mine used to always make fun of me for not drinking tap water. I explained that it taste bad and that you can see the particles floating around in it. He said "no no no, the Gov wouldn't allow that. It's safe to drink!" I know it is safe, but the quality sucks.
  This same friend stopped drinking from the tap after he moved to the neighborhood next to mine.
  All that is to say that while the tap water in most areas of the US are perfectly safe for consumption, that doesn't mean that it is pleasant tasting.
  
  you can see the particles floating around
  Good god! Where do you live?!
  I'll grant that tap water may not taste great. This sounds stupidly picky, and I'm not, but there's a clear difference in the water from our bathroom tap, kinda gross, and the kitchen tap, totally normal. Been like that since the house was new, 7-years ago.
  One thing people don't get, tap water is only nasty, if at all, when you first pour it. Take a glass and blast it full. Take a sniff, get your nose right on top.
  If you let it sit for a day, it's perfectly "flat". This is why people's houseplants suffer and turn brown at the tips. The plant pushes the chemicals, like fluorine and other stuff, out to the leaf tips, turns 'em dead. Let your water sit a day and it's about like rainwater. (I know minerals like fluoride won't change or evaporate out. Don't know anything about municipal water treatment.)
  And that's another thing! I've noticed for years that when it's dry, watering from the hose helps, of course. But a solid rain pops the green out. Very interesting to observe.
  
  If you have shit floating in your water, you need to get that checked out because it's almost certainly an issue in your end.

IIRC the biggest risk of the fluoride is it can pull calcium from the muscles in the digestive tract. With the tiny amount in drinking water, you would normally only feel an effect (like a slight cramp) if you drank too much, too quickly. Your body would be able to replace the calcium from its stores within a minute or two. If it is too uncomfortable, a simple antacid can speed it up.
- The biggest risk is that it renders your pineal gland completely useless. (not the face, not the face, not the face)
- There's quite a list of well-documented risks, actually. The anti-fluoride website highlighted in the article goes into some of it, but the one I'm intrigued by is the established link between IQ and fluoride. The "high" level in the report below is easily achievable by a standard diet and recommended water intake, assuming fluoridated water is both ingested and used in food processing and cooking.
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3409983/

“Let’s stop putting something in the water that’s meant to treat us, and give people the freedom to choose,”
Some topics demand freedom of choice and others don’t.

We need #TDazzle, it makes your teeth stronger and starts a party in your mouth. Its an aquatic based social media oral experience.
Here’s an informative video explaining the details
- Was looking for this.

9 out of 10 dentists approve a ban /s

This whole anti-fluoride thing is just a psyop brought to us by big toothpaste and the ADA… that’s the real conspiracy, wake up sheeple! /s

Removing fluoride.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL83S3zL0OE

It’s not fluoride, it’s #tdazzle.
https://piped.video/watch?v=8c0JrJdJrBA?si=-odO3ntcUYWS0-JF

Please do your own research, as this is a very controversial subject which has been fought since its inception, with entrenched opinions. Here's a primer:
Too much fluoride is bad for humans, and the threshold can achieved with a standard diet and recommended intake of water, assuming fluoridated water is used for both consumption and food prep. This excludes fluoride toothpaste.
Fluoride can not be removed from tap water using standard water filters, or even R/O filters. Removal requires highly specialized filters which utilize aluminum to chemically un-bind the fluoride, which then require a separate filtration statge to remove the aluminum.
This is because fluoride creates some of the strongest chemical bonds, and is the reason it is the primary component in PFAS, or "forever chemicals"
Very little of our tap water actually touches human teeth.
Fluoride is a problematic byproduct of the production of aluminum and fertilizer industry.
Buildup of fluoride in urban/suburban soils is becoming a crop & gardening concern for which there is no viable solution.
Fluoride tablets were administered as a remedy for hyper-thyroidism, as it decreased thyroid function. Fluoride is believed to be a factor in the increase of modern hypo-thyroid ailments
Fluoride is a known carcinogen.
Fluoride is a known neurotoxin, shown to reduce IQ - particularly for children. Many pediatricians advise against fluoride toothpaste at young ages.
Most of the research done on fluoridating tap water was done in the early 1940s & 50s, well in advance of modern dental hygiene and fluoridated toothpaste use. Studies do definitively show applying fluoride directly to teeth does strengthen tooth enamel, but modern studies are mixed, at best, regarding efficacy of fluoridated tap water between equivalent socioeconomic communities. No studies have been conducted regarding dermal absorption of fluoride , believed to further elevate intake.
I think the simplest solution is to let people choose for themselves, and add fluoride to their personal drinking water if that's what they choose.
We don't need to fluoridate water in our toilets, showers, or irrigation.
- I just want to point out that too much of anything is bad, because that's what "too much" means. Saying "but too much of x is bad" is such a dumb argument, that I always bring this up.
  
  The delta between fluoride levels considered "theraputic" and "harmful" (per the WHO) is quite small. The most effective use of fluoride is topical (applying to teeth) rather than oral.
- can you provide sources for these claims?
  i have not been able to find any conclusive evidence on fluoride being a carcinogen. in fact, im finding many reputable sources saying that’s still an open question.
  i also can’t find a reliable source on the IQ claims.
  the other claims are also fairly dubious as well.
  
  Of course not, what do you think independent research is?? Find your own sources!
  /S just in case
  
  The website in the article, had anyone read it without their personal bias scoffing at the title and going straight to comments, contains much of this info - I recommend giving it a gander.
  98% of Europe doesn't fluoridate their water. IATP provides statistics and primary concerns: https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Facts_about_Fluoridation.htm
  Per the NIH: "Children in endimic areas of fluorosis are at risk for impaired development or intelligence": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3409983/ Note: the “high” level in the report below is easily achievable by a standard diet and recommended water intake, assuming fluoridated water is both ingested and used in food processing and cooking. This excludes exposure via fluoride toothpaste.
  Fluoride and cancer: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3283934/
- I'm all for continued study on fluoride's effects, but I'm not totally convinced on all these points.
  It seems like most studies showing negative IQ effects are attributed to naturally high concentrations of fluoride in drinking water, or elevated levels due to nearby coal burning. It's certainly significant to know that there are toxic levels of fluoride, but recommended levels have been adjusted to be about half of that (though the exact threshold of toxicity is fuzzy).
  So yes, we need to be careful about the amount of fluoride in our water, but removing it completely (excepting natural presence) may be throwing the baby out with the fluoridated bath water, as it were.
  The main reason I'm against removing it completely is because it's not clear that it isn't helping prevent tooth decay, especially for those who don't have the means to get directly applied fluoride (i.e. Toothpaste and dentist applied coatings) and wouldn't have the means to add fluoride to their water on an individual basis.
  
  The best available scientific information is that it does help, and it’s the most cost effective way of doing so
  
  "The authors conclude that available evidence suggests that fluoride has a potential to cause major adverse human health problems, while having only a modest dental caries prevention effect": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/
  I’m against removing it completely is because it’s not clear that it isn’t helping prevent tooth decay
  ^ I think this logic needs to be reversed - the burden of proof must be abundantly clear with few to no risks before it should be considered. The paper above also highlights interesting aspects about the initial test which spurred water fluoridation in the US. This was also a time in which broad public awareness of dental hygiene was first entering mainstream - was the causality due to amended tap water, or more tooth-brushing?
  There's a reason most of Europe (and most of the world) doesn't fluoridate their water, and their teeth are statistically healthier than the USA & Australia, where most tap water is fluoridated.
  In my opinion the water fluoridation debate has become associated with nut-job conspiracy theorists and the "don't tread on me" crowd. There are legitimate concerns, and the debate has been ongoing prior to Roswell, etc. There are literal conspiracies diluted in public perception/sentiment by wacky theoretical conspiracies and the types who espouse them.
- studies are mixed, at best, regarding efficacy of fluoridated tap water between equivalent socioeconomic communities.
  That seems like a pretty significant qualifier.
- Very little of our tap water actually touches human teeth.
  Very little of our tap water actually touches human stomachs too, but we still make sure it isn't filled with amoebas.
  
  Without chlorination people would get sick and possibly die. Amoebas & bacteria can enter our bodies when showering or even flushing a toilet - via aerosolization. Chlorination is also important for the water infrastructure itself, and to prevent buildup within home pipes and appliances.
  Should we put multi-vitamin compounds in our drinking water too? It is strange that this one thing is added to water vs the host of other compounds which are shown to benefit human health.
- Does being this stupid hurt?

What makes more sense?
A) Large corporations (not known for their wisdom, concern for our well-being, or compassion) found a profitable way to deal with a hard-to-manage waste stream (from fertilizer production) by convincing government leaders (not known for their scientific understanding or compassion) to buy their waste and dilute it to where it no longer needs to be managed as toxic material?
B) Your government leaders are actually concerned about tooth decay.
Lol downvotes. Really guys? Water fluoridation is the one issue both Democrats and Republicans agree on and are doing the right thing for the people? You're being lied to, and fiercely defending the ones lying to you.
- Water fluoridation is one of the most successful and evidence supported public health initiatives in history. It was initiated by dentists, not corporations or government leaders.
  
  How many times have governments touted their own programs as successful and not been quite right? Are you really that easy to propagandize?
  I urge you to look a little deeper and use logic. It's not easy for governments and large companies to put out press releases and bad studies to support their position. It's never good to add neurotoxins to tap water where dosage is impossible to control and the water is used for far more than tooth care.
  Is there no concern about toxic substances building up in the soils in our farms and gardens? What about wildlife that has to deal with our drugged water? Is tooth decay really that important to put other stuff at unknown risk?
- B
  B makes more sense unless you think the dental products and all of the dentists are in some kind of conspiracy too.
  
  B makes more sense unless you think the dental products and all of the dentists are in some kind of conspiracy too.
  Look into the history of the ADA, good tiimes. Dentists telling us for years that mercury amalgam in our mouths was A-OK too.
  I'm not saying fluoride doesn't make for stronger teeth, I'm saying we should not add drugs to our tap water regardless of any health or safety claims. If you go that route, why not add vitamin C, and some Ozempic?
- If I'm remembering correctly, fluoridation and other public health measures were put in place because too many guys were physically unfit for military service.
- I'd love to say something sensible, understandable and concise.
  But this post is like someone shouting "WHY DID MATHEMATICIANS MAKE THE √ SYMBOL TICK SHAPED?!", convinced they've found a way to prove that 2+2 is not 4.
  There is so much to unpack there. Properly responding to every explicit and implicit grain is like reasoning against a beach.
  
  I'm not sure what you meant to say but it sounded super smart.
- Instead of attacking people and engaging in conspiracy-based thinking where your evidence is vague feelings of untrust why not present solid scientific research that the levels of fluoride that are in the water supply offer no health benefit?
  
  Why should I have to prove to you why not to add drugs to my water?
  Will I have to do this to prove why not to add Ozempic to my water?

If they want to get it into poor kids, should put fluoride in fizzy drinks.

Should the government put all beneficial substances in our water? Only some? Which ones? Why?
I don't want drugs in my water.
- If the government didn't add anything to water, you'd die from bacteria and viruses after it sits stagnant in the pipes.
  
  According to this line of reasoning, I guess it's OK for the government to add some Ozempic to the water?
- There aren’t drugs in your water. There are minerals though.
  
  Any substance, mineral or otherwise added to the water to affect the functioning of my body is a drug.
- You're going to have some level of fluoride from any water source -- whether there's any extra added or not -- unless there's processing to remove it. Just part of groundwater.
  
  Saying "use a filter to remove some naturally occurring X" -- sure ok
  Saying "use a filter to remove drugs added to your tap water that your tax dollars pay for" -- not ok
- If you water had nothing in it, it would be dangerous to drink. Distilled and/or 18 MΩ water can kill you, if you're not careful.
  
  LOL! I've been drinking distilled water primarily for 25 years! You can order it for your water cooler from Sparklett's.
- You started with serious questions, worth talking about, but thinking fluoride is a drug killed it. That tells me you're not educated enough to have the conversation.
  
  lol, and why would fluoride not qualify as a drug?
  Drug: A substance used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of a disease or as a component of a medication.
- You know tap water literally has chlorine in it, right?
  
  I don't drink tap water, but yes I'm well aware. I don't believe chlorine can be considered a drug added to our water as it's intention is not to affect my body, it's to prevent growth of bacteria in the water system.
  Either way, I don't really want that in my water either, but practical reality necessitates it, hundreds of millions could die without it, this is not nearly the case for fluoride.

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