Europe @feddit.org atro_city @fedia.io 12h ago

Should English stay the lingua franca of Europe?

There were many lingua francas of which French was supposedly the first global lingua franca. That changed and it became English (from what I understand). We will probably see another language become the lingua franca, so my question is: should it be English? Are there better candidates out there? Why / why not?

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English is a global lingua franca, not just european. And it's not just because of the american and british influence, but because it's a relatively easy language.

Also the translator programs are better and better, this is actually a good and fitting usecase of current LLMs. I think we are not far away from the babel fish.
- but because it's a relatively easy language
  
  I literally cried learning English as a kid lol
  
  Now try to learn Portuguese, or German, or Russian. English has wonky phonetics, but has a relatively simple grammar. As a bonus it's not properly standardized, so whatever you come up with is going to be correct in at least one of the existing dialects.
  
  Plus English has influences from everywhere. In my oral abitur exam, I got stuck once or twice and made up words by anglicizing the pronounciantion of french words gaining extra points and impressed faces.
  
  That works for almost all European languages. In one of his books Richard Feynman tells a story about when he went to Brazil and didn't how to say "so" in Portuguese so he used "Consequentemente" by adapting Consequently and everyone was impressed with his fluency.
  
  there's also a story about how he just decided to fire off nonsense phonemes at some visiting professor from some asian country because he thought it was funny and people were apparently impressed at his diction. i don't think his perceived audience reactions should be taken at face value.
  
  I feel like that's just a tall tale that Feynman told the author, like most of those stories
  
  As someone who learnt both German and English as a second language, German was easier.
  
  Consistent spelling and pronounciation make a massive difference.
  
  Consistent spelling and pronunciations but even native speakers get pronouns for certain nouns wrong sometimes.
  
  And as for German being consistent there are still situations like Umfahren (Drive around) and Umfahren (Run over) that are written the same but pronounced different.
  
  It's horrible how many German nouns have a female or male gender. Like a lamp is female for some reason, but not if it's a spot or a chandelier or whatever. This is so stupid and has to be memorized. Why is a bottle female, but not if it's a flat flask.
  
  ... and French is even more silly.
  
  It's called "grammatical gender". The gender is of the word not what the word represents. It evolved in many different languages meaning it did so for a reason. My guess is that it started with good intentions as many things do have a sex. However, realization crept in that there are far more things on this planet without a sex (or even an identifiable one) and something had to be done. Probably it didn't sound good either.
  
  There are also languages where the concept of gender (not just grammatical gender, but gender itself) doesn't exist and they have no gendered pronouns (everyone and everything is an "it" --> "the man, it moved", "the woman, it sang", ...).
  
  Languages are fascinating from a purely theoretical standpoint.
  
  It even existed in Old and Middle english, upto the 1500s.
  
  Some nouns still have genders in english. But this is more an exception than a rule. Ie. a ship/boat is female (called “she”), while nature is also feminine (often personified as “Mother nature”).
  
  Me too, but later I learned a bit of german and latin. The thing is you can fake english easily, like "why use lot word when few do trick" is a totally understandable sentence. Word order is not as stict as in german, no cases, no grammatical genders, verb tenses are mostly optional. Pronunciation is messed up though.
  
  Yeah, English Grammer is basically just Germanic (not to be confused with the Germanic language German, which is just another Germanic language, not the origin). Our words though are not. Most of the words that make up most of our sentences are still their Germanic versions, but talking about specific things could use words from dozens of languages. This makes pronunciation really challenging, because you can't just know the origin from looking at it, and even if you can it might have shifted from that.
  
  The grammar is fairly simple, but spelling is a total train wreck and an unparalleled nightmare of inconsistencies and convoluted rules. As long as you don’t have to read or write anything, there’s not much to cry about.
- I HATE the idea that we would have some Kind of built into us translators. Languages are a crucial part of human development and, therefore, they should be learned in school the old way. (Ofc school must also evolve)
- it's a relatively easy language
  
  I don't know about that part. The orthography at least is wild.
  
  Every 'real' languare has wild parts. there are constructed languares that don't but if they became common wild parts will likely be added over time.
  
  Yep. I always liked the idea of a conlang, but there's nothing stopping language change with them.
- No language is inherently easy to learn. Whether a language is easy to learn depends on how close it is to the languages you already know, thus to a Dutchman it will be much easier to learn English than to a Russian or a Thai. It is true that learning English is made a lot easier by having such a huge media presence, meaning it’s very easy to immerse yourself even without living in an English-speaking country.
  
  That may not be entirely true. Some studies have shown that Danish children generally take longer to learn to talk than children from other Scandinavian countries, which are incredibly similar in most other aspects. The leading hypothesis is the complicated phonology is to blame.
  
  Popular science article in Danish, summing up the several studies
  
  The researchers themselves however also make the valid point that
  
  Complexity in language, however, is a difficult size [standard, I presume]. For although Danish is difficult in pronunciation, it is grammatical, for example, much simpler than German and Finnish, which in turn is easier to understand than Danish.
  
  But I was speaking in general terms, anyway. Language, being a natural phenomenon, of course has lots of variation.
  
  As a Dutchman living in Germany I can attest to the immense difference that dubbing makes. While even young children in the Netherlands consume tons of English language media and have done so for decades, their peers in Germany generally get only dubbed versions. This leads to a lackluster immersion when "properly" learning English.
  
  Yeah, I’m also Dutch and watch German television often, and I always think it’s odd that all foreign movies have been dubbed over. In the Netherlands, that only happens to movies for children who can’t read yet. I think it’s a bit of a shame too, as I like to hear different languages.
- It's a lingua franca, and I don't even think it's about being easy to learn... avalanche effects are completely sufficient to explain its status. Many people already speak English, so more people learn English to speak with them, now even more people speak English, and so on, and so forth... the development of any lingua franca only depends on the ability to talk to as many people as possible. It's absolutely a bonus if it's easy and quickens the process, but at some point the pure amount of speakers outside ones own country becomes the overwhelming factor.

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