Fake vegans
Fake vegans
Vegans being banned and comments being deleted from !vegan@lemmy.world for being fake vegans.
From my perspective, the comments were in no way insulting and just part of completely normal interaction. If this decision reflects the general opinion of the mod team, then from my perspective, the biggest vegan community on Lemmy wants to be an elitist cycle of hardcore vegans only, not allowing any slightly different opinion. Which would be very unfortunate.
PS: In contrast to the name of this community, I don't want to insult anyone here being a 'bastard'. I just want to post this somewhere on neutral ground. I would really appreciate an open discussion without bashing anyone.
PPS: Some instances or clients seem to compress the screenshots in a way they're unreadable. Find the full resolution here: https://imgur.com/a/8XdexTm
Linking the affected users and mods: @Cypher@lemmy.world @gaael@lemmy.world @gredo@lemmy.world @iiGxC@slrpnk.net @veganpizza69@lemmy.world @veganpizza69@lemmy.vg @jerkface@lemmy.ca @TheTechnician27@lemmy.world @Sunshine@lemmy.ca @Aqua@lemmy.vg
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This is an Appeal to Futility fallacy, which can render any argument immobile. "Why vote, it doesn't matter anyway". "Why help the needy, my contribution won't fix the problem". "Why continue living, we're just gonna die anyway".
If everyone thinks along your lines, society and the world basically just falls to bits. If the world suddenly adopted my view, climate change is basically solved, the risk of zoonotic diseases (COVID, bird flu, swine flu etc) basically stops, the risk of treatment resistant antibiotics hugely drops, conscious feeling creatures aren't tortured and killed for pleasure.
The worst Monsanto vegies are absolutely more ethical than the best meat, for the planet, for your health and for the animal.
Sure. If.
But it's not going to happen. Ever. The world is doomed and it's a massive systemic issue. Me eating fake cheese isn't going to fix it. A million people eating fake cheese won't help it. It will exacerbate it.
The problem is capitalism and the scale of industrial farming. It's not going to change by people being voluntarily vegan.
Appeal to Futility again. A vegan diet literally fixes the problem. It would remove 68% of the food chains climate emissions.
What do you think drives capitalism? If YOU stop eating animal products, and convince other people like I have, the demand for them drops. YOU are the problem, YOU are creating the demand, stop blaming a system, when you're literally the reason it exists.
If YOU stop eating animal products, and convince other people like I have, the demand for them drops.
didn't you try that?
And Ive reduced my carbon emissions immensely. Now it's your turn.
So you believe that shit BP made up about us watching our carbon footprints so they can blame us for climate change? If so then shut the fuck up, because you don't actually care about stopping or reducing climate change, if you're going to advocate for the solutions that were literally made up by the oil companies so we wouldn't protest them and/or get their business BANNED, which is how these problems are actually solved.
Yes I'm aware of that. You can go vegan AND protest oil companies, look at Greta Thunberg. Just because a bad corporation tells you to cut down on your emissions, doesn't automatically make that message bad.
I like the passion though, doesn't it feels frustrating being so anti-oil company, but defending the meat industry? They're both horrible industries destroying the planet, propagandizing the populace, and destroying our health.
as far as I can tell carbon emissions keep rising.
Because people continue to emit carbon. If people went vegan, carbon emissions would reduce.
but you just said that you went vegan, and they didn't reduce. the evidence does not support your theory.
They did reduce. Fewer animals have been bred to feed me as my demand isn't there. Fewer emissions.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-production-tonnes?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL
according to this, we are producing more meat than ever
And if I and all other vegans started eating meat, they'd need to produce even more.
You do realise me eating meats means the world has to produce more meat right?
If Billy has 5 marbles, and Johnny asks for a marble, Billy now has 4 marbles. Billy will have to get another marble to have 5 again.
If Johnny doesn't ask for marble, Billy will still have 5 marbles.
Am I going to fast for you?
But it’s not going to happen. Ever.
You're not god.
Nor are you. And unlike God (and you, apparently), I'm existing in reality.
That's a lot of arrogance to say you're "existing in reality" when nobody can see into the future.
It's more arrogant to say "If the world suddenly adopted my view, climate change is basically solved, the risk of zoonotic diseases (COVID, bird flu, swine flu etc) basically stops, the risk of treatment resistant antibiotics hugely drops, conscious feeling creatures aren't tortured and killed for pleasure."
If I wanted to fight vegans right now, I'd be downstairs talking to my wife. I'm happy being ovo-lacto again. My girls are well cared for (I built them a mansion of a coop out of mostly reclaimed wood), and they repay me daily, and I'm enjoying creamy cheeses and ice cream that doesn't taste like frostbitten ass (or paying $9/pint for a decent alternative)
If the world suddenly adopted my view,
do you have a plan to make that happen?
Yeah, go vegan.
didn't you already try that?
Yeah now your turn.
if it didn't work for you, I have no reason to believe it would work for me
It will
what evidence do you have for this claim?
Substantial evidence, now concede.
If the world suddenly adopted my view, climate change is basically solved,
I doubt it
If the world went vegan, deforestation would drop by 94%, which by itself would achieve 23% of the climate mitigation over a 15 year period.
Global farmland would also be reduced by 75%, returned an area the size of China back to forest.
Meat alone accounts for 15% of the entire planets greenhouse gas emissions, and 75% of all food emissions.
It's literally the best thing a single person can do for the climate, so what's stopping you?
Global farmland would also be reduced by 75%,
I doubt it
https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Imagine you were on a debate stage and someone cited a stat and your debate reply was quietly going up to the mic and going "doubt it".
You're not pithy or glib, just lazy and boring.
I have no interest in debate. I'm just looking for the truth
No you aren't.
this is just another accusation of bad faith, made in bad faith
Nope it isn't, you're wrong. Go vegan.
this relies on poore-nemecek 2018, which misuses it's source data, didn't even disclose this, and drew hyperbolic conclusions. but even if we could rely on that, there is still no reason to believe the land would not continue to be farmed
How does it misuse it's source data?
LCAs are not transferable between studies. they compiled thousands of disparately methodized studies.
That's called meta analysis, you're wrong.
Reading the source papers will show that I'm right.
I just read the source papers, they prove I'm right.
If the world went vegan, deforestation would drop by 94%,
I doubt it
It's literally the best thing a single person can do for the climate
I doubt it
Don't doubt it.
without evidence, everyone should doubt it.
Nope, they shouldn't. There's boundless evidence.
if that were true you could present some
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
The burden of proof is on you. Provide evidence to the contrary.
conscious feeling creatures aren’t tortured and killed for pleasure.
that's not happening now, so don't worry about it.
What part do you disagree with.
I said what I meant.
Which part specifically.
all of it.
Wrong
I know what I meant
No you don't.