Republicans vs Democrats

Abortion rights were repealed under Democrats, trans rights are being repealed under Democrats, police budgets have increased in response to BLM, and non-stop war is completely bipartisan.

Both sides ARE bad, just because one of them sometimes offers tepid opposition doesn't make them good. Democrats are not on your side either.

In fact Obama campaigned on codifiying abortion rights but when he entered office he admitted its not a priority for his administration.
- Obama was peak liberalism. All talk, no show.
  
  and several war crimes
  
  What good is being a liberal if you cant have a little warcrimes as a treat?
Abortion rights were repealed because Trump got 3 partisan supreme court justices appointed.
- Then pack the courts, codify abortion rights into federal law, do some executive order bullshit, or fuck it, abolish the supreme court entirely. There's a lot Democrats CAN do but aren't. If we're being very charitable, then they value made-up rules over your human rights. That's the party you want representing you?
  
  Packing the courts sets a precedent the next republican can just pack it the other direction. Before we know it we have hundreds of supreme court justices.
  
  Any law passed by congress can be struck down by the same supreme court as an over reach to state rights. Nevermind democrats barely have a simple majority, and can't get past a filibuster. 3 of their simple majority come from heavily red states (Brown, Manchin, and Tester) and are up for reelection next year. Almost no way they'd vote for it, meaning they'd likely not even get it passed.
  
  Executive order bullshit only goes for the executive branch. Not legislative or judicial. Biden could wind up impeached for over reach at worst, but have it struck down at best, just like student loans were struck down by the supreme court, which was far more closer to the executive than abortion rights.
  
  The supreme court is constitutionally created, and you can't modify the constitution without a 2/3rds of congress and 3/4ths of state legislatures. Democrats barely have a majority in congress, and only 19 state legislatures.
  
  It really is not that simple. If people had not been abstaining because 'both parties are the same' and Trump had never been elected, then we wouldn't be in this mess.
  
  I agree they're not as liberal as they should be, but the people who are voting are conservative. Until more leftists start voting, the politicians will not represent them and fascists will keep getting elected with only 20% of the population voting for them.
  
  So pack the courts and then write laws to set things in stone in their favor. If Democrats don't do it, then they're leaving the door open for Republicans to do it. Or just have hundreds of judges, who cares? What's the worst that could happen, our rights could be taken away? Already happening.
  
  They could also eliminate the filibuster and arguably should have done it ages ago. And they have a majority, why are your expectations so low? Demand more from them while you can.
  
  Biden has already done some executive order bullshit to protect abortion rights and I'm saying that he should do more. The 3 branches of government aren't discrete and there's lots of stuff that he has the power to do but isn't doing, like allowing abortions to be done on federal property.
  
  And the supreme court as it is now isn't constitutional. It was not designed to have judicial supremacy, but has grown over time to effectively become a branch of government in its own right. One that's completely undemocratic and unaccountable to the American people. We can use the same reasoning that was used to overturn Roe v. Wade to strip the supreme court of its power without amending the constitution at all.
  
  I don't think it's fair to pin all the blame for American politics on Trump. Our issues run far deeper than that and he's more of a symptom than a cause. Also, most people DIDN'T vote for him. He LOST the popular vote, but got to be president anyway because this county is rigged when it comes to voting. How can you say that all people need to do is vote when their votes matter so little?
  
  Btw communists define liberalism as the ideology that supports capitalism. Democrats and Republicans are both liberals.
  
  If the only other real option is the Republican party then 110% yes.
  
  Abort the court!
What an absurdly simplistic view of things. All you're doing with this "both sides" bullshit is encouraging more people to sit out the process which is how we got here in the first place. Shame on you, do fucking better.
- That's interesting. After I got done sitting out (in 2016, cause fuck Hilary), I voted for Biden (after Bernie dropped out) to get rid of the orange monster, and now I'm advocating for ranked-choice voting and additional parties. I'm more active than ever. Dems are bad. GOP is worse. I want true Left parties. Your rhetoric shames my desire for more options. Shame on you!
  
  lol you twit. Don’t sit out any elections. Hillary would have been literally infinitely better than Trump.
  
  A pet rock would have been better than trump.
  
  Good luck with RCV, I think it’s probably a good idea, we use it in primaries in NYC and it’s done fuckall that’s been good so far.
  
  But get off your moral high horse and pick the thing that does the least harm if you can’t find any positives.
- Hey so I am empathetic to your point, but also have some disagreements.
  
  I voted for Biden, and will again. But both sides are bad. One side is definitely worse, but doesn't change the fact that dems are status quo, pandering, old money pearl clutchers who greatly benefit off of for profit criminal justice, and the suppression of working class. They are not my ally.
  
  I'm really tired of the "perfect is the enemy of good" dnc party line, while we allow good enough to be enemy of better.
  
  Just my thoughts. Also alot of the liberals act like this is sports or some shit. If you browse the conservative communities and the liberal ones, both sides are literally just mirroring eachother, instead of going after the people who put us here in the first place.
  
  I'm a lefty, and american, and the politics here are rigged. I don't really blame the people who sit out tbh. They're up against a power, that quite frankly, will take a fair amount of upheaval to take care of. And no one wants to do that. It's a shitty state of affairs.
  
  I really hope we can get money out of politics, and have viable 3rd parties..but tbh, the dnc would try to stop that, so...they aren't my true ally, just cause the other side is worse.
  
  Our voting system (first past the post, winner take all) is keeping us in the two party system better than anything else the dnc could do. Let’s see them support ranked choice or similar.

Oh shut the fuck up man if you're not seeing one hand wash the other on the ruling class shutting that down, you never will. The democrats never intended to pass student loan debt relief, or they wouldn't have softballed something they KNEW the Supreme Court would shut down.

"The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them." -- Julius Nyerere

Exactly and even if the Dems won the student debt relief, it's such a little and temporary measure that no way addresses the root cause of the issue.

But of course, many people only look at Biden's website and think that's all you need to know about politics.

Give ME a break.
- Oh, that website that's ALREADY a whole pack of lies? That only exists on the Internet Archive bc the DNC knew leaving it up would make it easier for the proles to beat on them? That bullshit-assed website?

Both sides are bad though. They are both neoliberals pieces of shit that care infinitely more about their corporate donors than they do about the people. Heck, they only throw scrums to people to pretend that they care.

You are correct that they are both inadequate for facing the crises of our time, but Republicans are choosing all of the worst options. Don't pretend like an idiot is anywhere near as bad as a literal demon.
- That’s an insult to mentally challenged people and demons everywhere!
- You are correct that they are both inadequate for facing the crises of our time
  
  The only part of your comment that makes sense and you should have stopped there because everything you said after that is by definition wrong when preceded by this statement.
- I repeat, they are both neoliberals pieces of shit that only care about their pockets and we should get rid of both and establish a communist party.
- "Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results"
  
  -Margaret Atwood

Neither side tried to get rid of student loan debt. One side just pretended to try.

They tried metaphysically and still failed.
This is an instance and thread I can get behind.

Ah. How refreshing from the reddit think.

fucking liberals liberals? On our lemmygrad? It’s more likely than you think!

It's not "both sides bad", it's "they're all on the same side". The majority of Amerikans and non-Amerikans realize this. You are shilling for the bourgeoisie against the proletariat.

I typically don't downvote but here you are just factually wrong. "to get rid of student loan debt" would mean to abolish and pass legislation that actually ended all student loan debt in present and future. A feeble attempt at a 'one-time only' debt relief with no further policies or plans to eliminate all future educational costs is just a puppet show. I personally would've benefited from the debt relief, but would've preferred them addressing the rising costs and accessibility of higher education (the root of the problem).

Instead we got a repeal of AA and a move that would've benefited loan companies with a side effect that could possibly make getting future loans for under-privileged individuals that much harder (or more dangerous if loan companies decided to give out increasingly worse contracts if they believe the government will step in and pay the horrendous bills). There are better metrics to compare the parties with, "equal rights" is not one of them as they won't ever exist while class disparity is so rampant.

Equal rights isn't a new developing issue, here's a quote from over 60 years ago,

The assistant director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Hyman Bookbinder, in a frank statement on December 29, 1966, declared that the long-range costs of adequately implementing programs to fight poverty, ignorance and slums will reach one trillion dollars. He was not awed or dismayed by this prospect but instead pointed out that the growth of the gross national product during the same period makes this expenditure comfortably possible. It is, he said, as simple as this: “The poor can stop being poor if the rich are willing to become even richer at a slower rate.” Furthermore, he predicted that unless a “substantial sacrifice is made by the American people,” the nation can expect further deterioration of the cities, increased antagonisms between races and continued disorders in the streets. He asserted that people are not informed enough to give adequate support to anti-poverty programs, and he leveled a share of the blame at the government because it “must do more to get people to understand the size of the problem.” (source, bold by me)

Equal rights "advocates" love to posture and hand-wave historical figures like Dr. King, who rightly pointed out the next step to real equality in his book titled, "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?".

One of the central themes of the book's messages is that of hope. King reflects upon the Civil Rights Movement. He discusses the question of what African-Americans should do with their new freedoms found in laws such as the Voting Rights Act of 1965. He concludes that all Americans must unite in order to fight poverty and create an equality of opportunity. King emphasizes that he is neither a Marxist nor a doctrinaire socialist; he instead advocates for a united social movement that would act within both the Republican and Democratic parties. (synopsis from wiki)

It goes "on and on" like this because it's all a show, the steps and problems have been laid bare for decades in the U.S. with no meaningful impact for the causes and class disparity is only getting worse. If the democrats in charge actually passed legislation that addressed inequality, then they wouldn't have anything to dangle in front of the donkey.

edit: If you're gonna give a downvote (probably who I was replying to), don't be a coward and at least bring some conversation to the table with your viewpoints. I'm just gonna have to assume your feelings were hurt and that's the only recourse you have if not.

This gets at it beautifully. The point is that Dems show a good effort but don't actually create meaningful change. It's theater.

This both sides is bad argument is scary because it can cause people to become indifferent. It's scary for minorities. One side is actively trying to get rid of minorities or marginalize them.

Yeah I get that in the context of the working class they are both bad but that's not the only way people are categorized. People's lives are literally being ruined due to the abortion ban and the regression in trans rights and it's clear one side is pushing for it way more than the other.

Nice copium lib.

US politics is one big WWE show and you've taken the bait that the democrats actually "tried". When you realize just how much isn't being done that could be done, and then look at all the same big donor lobbyist money they take in every year, it starts to make sense why the democrats are always "sooo close" to radical change. It's deliberate and I'm tired of people thinking it isn't

One side tried to get rid of student loan debt and the other side said no.

$10,000 or $50,000 is hardly getting rid of student loan debt and there are way more pressing issues like the fact medical debt is still the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US and mainstream dems are still balking at universal health care.

Maybe do a bit more research next time before you comment.

Yeah, one is trying to disarm poor people, the other isn't. One is murdering babies, the other isn't.

This is some real peasant-bullshit
Murdering babies is pretty great though, did you know that humanity has been doing it since ancient Mesopotamia? The ancient Romans used so much silphium as an abortifacient that the plant went extinct.

Don't argue with the tankies. They literally have no moral compass.

We're the ones with no moral compass; when the democrats oversee slavery in the Department of Corrections(while cutting the police fatter and fatter checks), oversee familial separation and rape in the internment camps at the border(while cutting ICE fatter and fatter checks), and gleefully play merchant of death kicking obscenely-priced contract after obscenely-priced contract to the military-industrial complex. Is the F-35 even capable of flying an operational sortie yet? Or was that just a ten year waste of billions and billions of dollars?

Okay, you fuckin hypocrite, okay. Sure. Posture all you like. None of it even fuckin matters anyway when your party will GLEEFULLY torch the earth sucking every last drop of oil out of it while SWEARING we're gonna keep under 2C. Can't wait for all your shit to burn.
- Bro your new display name hahaha
  
  if Peggy doesn't eventually drop a track with this title I'm rioting
This is exactly why liberals don't get shit done. You are too focused on optics rather than material reality.
Fisk400 goes to Walmart. On the shelves, a product catches his eye "Wow, I can't believe this AC unit is so cheap! Capitalism is great."

A Congolese child smiles. His job in a rare earth excavation site made that AC unit possible, and cheap.

The child looks at the sky "I hope you're happy, white master", he says before he gets pushed back to work. It is 40C in the mine, he gets no AC. But at least wealthier people get to have it.

Fisk400 buys the cheap AC. "Who cares about climate change anyway, it's hot outside". Then, he sees something else a few aisles down: cheap meat. "Wow, that's a great deal!". He grabs a few packs of beef.

Somewhere in Argentina, a cattle rancher smiles. "I hope you're happy, white master" says the man. He has never tasted beef; it's too expensive for him. But he's glad that someone else gets to enjoy it, at least.

Fisk never even heard the child and man, drowned by his new shiny purchases and the feeling of accomplishment they give him.

Upon leaving the store, Fisk400 pretends to not see the 75 year old greeter who is forced to stand there all day and say hi. "Oh god, I hope he doesn't try to talk to me" he thinks as he darts to the exit, his products in hand. He can't wait to try them out -- it's his god-given right to consume whatever is sold in stores with no further considerations.

Then, cool and cozy, he logs onto Lemmy. "Tankies have no moral compass", he says matter-of-factly.
Don’t you dronies have more hospitals to bomb under the name of “freedom and democracy”?
The Clintons had literal slaves. Like, the still-alive Clintons. Fuck you, devil.