Those are the ones I tried, they were definitely the best in terms of price and the mobility was good enough for walking etc. I just found that they got a bit too tight for me in a full squat for example. I did purchase them but ended up returning them, I was very close to keeping them. I'd suggest trying them on/ordering them and see how you feel, and you can always return :)

I've been searching for the same thing - a PFA/PFC free shell to go over my regular trousers. I've tried these three and haven't had any luck with any of them:

• Patagonia Torrentshell: I could hardly take a full stride in these, and sizing up was like wearing oversized parachute pants

• Marmot equivalent: Much more mobility, but just not enough for me to pedal on a bike without the pants becoming very taut. I fear they'd rip after a while.

• Outdoor Research equivalent: Satisfactory mobility, but for some reason the ankle cuffs are really wide - water would definitely splash up inside these if you were walking through puddles, so it feels like they miss the mark a little especially considering these are a bit more expensive than the others.

I'm still looking, open to recommendations!

Your chad levels are off the charts 📈

Hopefully if more people switch these issues will have more visibility and potentially be addressed

Judging by the picture alone things can surely only get better. This is one of those classic cases of a tipping point needing to be reached before an "experimental" solution can be actioned.

Hopefully the solution is actually beneficial and not some "not plastic but still not good" alternative. In Vancouver they banned single use plastic bags for things like food takeout, and instead places now use small fabric bags. Yes they aren't single-use plastic, so they're better, but they might as well still be single-use.

Why not?

Agreed 💪

I also fantasise about this lol

Joke's on you I only own a bike 🚲

I think we're coming at this from different angles - I'm criticizing the response a lot of people have when electric vehicles are brought up, which is "they're bad don't buy them" and usually backed up with a belief that public transport is the solution. The obvious rebuttal in my opinion is that that doesn't work for every area where cars/vehicles are needed, and it's still worthwhile investing in and celebrating the transition of these existing systems. I 100% agree that car density in urban populations is a huge problem and I hate how much cars dominate our lives.

If you were doing nothing you'd probably feel less fulfilled

At least you're doing your part

They're better! We agree.

I also want to say our usernames are very apt for this debate

Explain how the meme excludes rural areas, because it seems pretty general and not city-specific to me.

Are you trying to argue that rural populations are not included in the full set of populations who use cars? Of course you're not, because that would be silly.

"Right wing propaganda" - what a ridiculous claim to make

As with a lot of my responses here, you're only responding within the context of cities, and even more narrowly you're referring to downtown/commercial/recreational areas that need to be walkable.

You're right to say we should have more walkable cities, however it's not a valid argument against electrifying vehicles.

Yeah, so in the context of cars, a small step in the right direction is the introduction of electric cars to replace ICE cars. It's a feasible and available step. I'm not hearing any other currently feasible ideas, and saying "just use public transport/bikes" is not a solution for every human who currently has a car.

So what should people in areas not serviced by public transport do?

All avenues are important. Effort needs to be put into what you stated, but effort also needs to be put into helping people who are living month to month make the small changes that they are able to. Not everyone is in a privileged position of being able to upend their entire world without life changing consequences.

Exactly, well said chad 💪