PugJesus @ PugJesus @lemmy.world Posts 4,829Comments 7,826Joined 2 yr. ago
Maybe they lost because they actively avoided addressing any issues.
There are many reasons why the Dems lost. Every one of them bears some blame, and most - though not all - of them are on the party leadership.
Unfortunately, the data provided by leftists on Lemmy has been very convincing in putting forward that even a single one - namely, leftists abstaining from voting Dem over their personal issue of choice - could have saved us from fascism. Instead, those selfsame leftists chose to embrace as much genocide as possible, killing literal millions, even just at current projections.
The only war you’ve concerned yourself with is a war that has the biggest geopolitical implications.
The only war I've supported, not the only one I've concerned myself with.
I would think the genocide in gaza would at least rank, since Isreal’s imperial ambitions and actions in Gaza and the middle east are far more recent, bloody, and asymmetrical than the war in Ukraine.
I've expressed deep opposition to Israel's ongoing genocide in Gaza, as well as their invasions of neighboring states.
I've openly stated opposition to all Israeli aid. I've denounced the idea that we should be allies at all with Israel, due to their horrific conduct.
As an anarchist living in American, I have a whole lot of questions for anyone who strongly cares about the Russian invasion of Ukraine but doesn’t seem to give two shits about the imperial ambitions of a western ally in the ME.
And you would be right to. Unfortunately for your argument here, that has nothing to do with me.
You present far more like a career security advisor working out of the pentagon, but I’m not conspiratorial enough to seriously think that - tho it is interesting to think about.
Lord.
“If you’re not with us, you’re against us”
That is literally what a FPTP election results in, yes. I see this is still taking time to sink in.
7, wishing I was 2
It isn’t because some stubborn group of progressives were making a fuss about a pet issue.
That's funny, because I've had numerous 'leftist' posters tell me that the Dems lost because of progressives abstaining due to one pet issue or another. And what's worse, they've backed their stance with data.
Is leftist some fun outfit you put on sometimes when the weather suits you? You’ve been using this account for long enough I think most of us have you pegged as a warhawk liberal, not any kind of ‘leftist’ - none I would ever care to work with, at least.
The only war that I've been in support of since I've been on Lemmy has been the war in Ukraine against Russian imperialism and genocide.
I'm extremely anti-tankie, and don't regard harm reduction as optional, unlike some purity-obsessed posters, but if that's what makes me a warhawk liberal in your eyes, go off, I guess.
Don’t be dense. Define ‘bothsides type’ that includes all subsets of the group you’re talking about. I’d bet pretty penny it isn’t limited to people who use the phrase ‘both sides are exactly the same’.
Those who present of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable.
I’m gonna guess this is pretty close: ‘someone who criticizes the democrats without clearly signaling their electoral support of them’
I mean, harm reduction is not morally optional, but criticizing the Dems without signaling electoral support is not inherently a "BOTHSIDES" reaction, excepting, say, in the immediate lead-up to an election of unusual importance wherein the only realistic options are fascism or the Dems.
When there is an immediate crisis coming up, wherein messaging is extremely important, and you choose to amplify messages that help fascists without bothering to amplify messages that damage fascists, it's difficult to see that as anything except service to fascism.
Criticism of your party doesn’t ‘implicitly exhort’ support for neither, dipshit.
I never said it did?
Both parties sharing a huge, glaring problem is a pretty valid reason to engage in dissenting speech.
... okay?
That’s the fucking point. Having the disagreement is politics, but framing that disagreement as ‘opposition’ is willfully malicious and you know it.
Man, I'm not fucking talking about "Anyone who disagrees with the Dems".
Nah, man. I know full well you’ve read MLK, don’t be the patronizing white-moderate. Both sides are shit, we should be arguing for changing that not just signing blank checks for the less objectionable one.
I don't disagree? At the same time, when it comes down to the metal, if those are your only two choices, you have to be prepared to bite the bullet and take a side, not say "Both sides are the same!", which is what is being criticized here (in the meme, of self-proclaimed centrists, though, given Lemmy's makeup, the comments have predictably veered towards self-proclaimed leftists doing the same). When Nazi Germany comes a-knockin', you side with the US, or the UK, or the USSR, regardless of what valid criticisms you have for each. Because there is a bigger enemy afoot, and there's not an alternative option that doesn't result in vast amounts of people living under fascism.
I've told people since the end of the election, if you want to start a third-party movement, now is exactly the time. Or if you want to do a revolution, now is the time to lay groundwork. Now is the time to decouple from the Dems, if you're going to do it.
I'm not exactly a Dem partisan. I just recognized that in 2024, our realistic options were fascism or the Dems, shitty as they were, and of the two, there's no real contest in which should have been preferable. I'm still pissed that my life is on the fucking line, not to mention the lives of millions of others, because a third of the country decided fascism was an okay alternative, since 'both sides' were the same. And I'm pissed that I saw that sentiment here regularly, on Lemmy, from the mouths of supposed leftists.
I'm used to hearing it from "centrists", like in the meme. But if there's one thing that Lemmy has taught me, it's that while leftists might be less repugnant than the general population, we're not actually any smarter. Just as gullible, just as senseless, just as willing to engage in feel-good politics over reality.
Guess I knew that on an intellectual level, but hadn't accepted it emotionally before I moved here.
I'm not sure what the meme is trying to say, unfortunately.
I’m not kidding. I don’t think you could explain the thing you’re taking issue with
"I take issue with the presentation of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable, and choosing neutrality is siding with the oppressor"?
without projecting your ethical framework onto it.
What the ever-loving fuck would be describing a political issue without projecting an ethical framework onto it?
We can have a conversation about effective/acceptable methods of activism without all this bullshit posturing. Just say the thing you mean and leave the agitprop to the activists.
"'Bothsides' attitude is bullshit and, ultimately, right-wing bullshit"?
[in the way they criticize my party]
What
Only someone with an agenda would take ‘exactly the same’ to mean ‘identical’ in this context.
Jesus fucking Christ.
"Bothsides types are indistinguishable both in form and in end-result, regardless of whether they claim to be centrists or leftists"
"This is crazy doublethink shit!"
The same user constantly harps on ‘far-left’ progressives complaining about democratic positions, and calls himself a centrist.
what
Someone: “both parties share this specific commonality”
PugJesus: “oh rly?? Both sides are LITERALLY the same??”
Bruh, there are no end of people I can quote on here saying that both parties are exactly the same, that there's no meaningful difference between them, that Trump is just business as usual, and that bourgeois democracy has been on an unceasing march becoming ever-more fascist since its inception.
"Ho, Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo!"
Immensely based man, I hope he's correct
Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
That's very different from asserting that both sides are the same.
Explanation: The Terracotta Army is a set of funerary sculptures depicting soldiery buried with the first Emperor of China. Wargame enthusiasts might also recognize the desire to collect models of soldiers en masse.
Based
Don't worry, I was told it was all business as usual
Both Sides Are Bad So Vote Republican.
God, growing up, I heard the equivalent of that so often from the less-lead-poisoned of my conservative community.
"Well, you don't really know what's true, and both sides lie. Really, both parties are just out for themselves. There's no difference between them."
"So you aren't voting?"
"Oh no, I'm definitely voting Republican."
"Critical support" apparently lacks critical examination of sources
It costs nothing to have higher standards