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sh.itjust.works Main Community @sh.itjust.works

2y ago

Are artists and creators not welcome in this community?

I decided to do a bit of a dive into this platform, and while I think it is an interesting idea, I am yet to find a space on Lemmy where I am welcome. I am an artist. I have a Patreon that pays my bills and puts food on the table. Generally, I give the majority of my stuff away for free to the community, but that usually comes with a link to my Patreon, which is optional, but is there for people if they want to support me. I need to eat too. As far as I understand, that is not allowed here. Or pretty much any other instance I've come across on Lemmy. The obvious solution is to create my own instance, I suppose, but I am already running two communities on Discord, and generally work ungodly amounts on my art, so adding running an instance on top of that is just not feasible. I also lack the needed technical skills to run something like that. In the meantime, I am constantly seeing people complain that there isn't a lot of content here. Guess who's good at creating content? Creators. But you need to allow us to eat in order to create content for you. Am I alone on this?

Battle Maps - DND/TTRPG Battlemaps @lemmy.world

Dragon Hatchery Battle Map

5 2

78 comments

I agree with all of you and think artists and others alike should be able to share their work and allows other to contribute to their passion. Should we just remove the No Ads from the rules? Maybe the answer is to modify the rule. I just to make it clear that I don't want users aimlessly ad spamming the communities.
- Thank you for taking a look at it! I really appreciate it! I don't think you should remove the "No Ads" rule, but maybe specify that self-promotion is ok and maybe let community moderators define how much self-promotion is ok in their own communities? I am not sure how much power / trust there is in community mods here though. Another option could be something like: no more than one post per creator per day / week etc (whatever folks here decide they are comfortable with) per community.
  
  Rule to clarify that self-promotion is cool while pure ads/eBegging/spam isn't, some language to try and define where the line is (from what I've seen from you specifically, you'd be above board), and a commitment that artists must participate in good faith (see: posting a dope-ass map you want to share along with a link to your patreon is cool, just saying "I make dope-ass maps, click this link to see them" probably isn't).
  I think with a little definition for clarity, this isn't a problem.
- I would like to assume that most moderators would delete posts that are purely for advertising purposes, with no other value. But one of the interesting differences between Reddit and Lemmy/Kbin is how instance owners are likely to be more involved in moderating so I'm curious to see how this ends up evolving.

Middle ground: Put your Patreon link in your bio and point people to it if they're interested in supporting. Comes off a little less spammy.
Though that said, like others mentioned I don't think anyone would truly take offence to an innocuous link. It's low effort, not-in-community-spirit crap that I think people are trying to avoid. Worth shooting a message to admins directly if you want clarity on this.
- That should probably be clarified in the rules then. I'm sure OP isn't the only one who looked at the rules and thought they couldn't post their work. They are just the one that made a post about it.
- Right now they just have it as the watermark and in the hyperlink as the source. They don't even mention it in the text of the post. I think that's definitely fine, but I guess we'll need to wait for the admin to weigh in

First - that's beautiful work.
Second - I wish more open source folks would make a distinction between "advertising" and "self-promotion." I've never minded the latter as much as the former.
That said - nuance makes for more argument and difficulty in moderation. It's the same question of "tasteful nude photography" or "porn".
- Thank you! Glad you like my work <3.
  I agree - I don't think that spam is good, and I don't think it should a part of the community. I do think that some sort of guidelines or rules in regard to self-promotion would work. A limit to posting either once a day or once a week in communities with your work, or something along those lines.
  Otherwise, there just won't be artists, writers, musicians and other creatives here.
  
  Yes - some guidelines would be good at least. And I think there is room to allow exceptions within a community. Maybe even some sort of 'flag' that indicates "self promotion is allowed" so people could exclude them if they wanted.
  There are definitely some possible options other than "Allowed/Not Allowed".

Hmm, I haven't seen any rules that disallow self promotion aside from nsfw. Could you point me to where you're seeing that?
- I believe this instance has the rule against ads, which I believe self-promotion is one of those. I might be wrong?
  
  Hmm, I'd clarify with the admin what's the difference between an ad and linking to additional content, some of which is paid. Also, I couldn't find the ad rule with some quick browsing, maybe copy it here for reference? Is it just the '*No ads' in the rules? If so, we definitely need more clarification
  
  I don't think most people would consider linking your patreon in your community or your bio to be advertising. It's true the rule could use some clarification though.
  it's fine to ask, but also note that if you get booted from the instance for it, you can always go to a different instance that allows it.
  
  I'd say just go for it and see if any mods squawk. If it's really your original art, and you aren't aggressive about asking for money, then you might be fine. It's a matter of the text of the rule versus the intent of the rule.

I personally don't mind seeing a link to the artist's patreon or website or whatever on a post, as long as it's not over the top or inserted clearly as an ad for whatever is being sold. I feel like it's OK for that to be there for the people who want to see more of your work or purchase something. What I don't like to see is my feed getting filled with what I perceive as advertisements. So I think there is a happy middle ground.

Pretty dumb rule to not allow content creators to not link to their own patreon.

This isn't the only instance. You have a bunch more and maybe one maybe OK with linking to patreon. It's probably easier than creating your own instance.
Btw, if you want an instagram alternative that's on the fediverse, try out pixelfed

Posting a quick update: I reached out to one of the admins. We'll see what they say.

do you want an art community? Ill add one to my instance, a lot of my work involves tooling for artists, im just neckdeep in AI right now.
- The art that I create is specifically TTRPG / D&D / battlemap related, so a general art community wouldn't necessarily work for me specifically - although it might be a good idea for others. I appreciate the thought!
  
  Do we have a battlemap community here? I saw one that someone had made around somewhere, but I don't remember where
  
  I'd be surprised if the D&D communities had an issue. The D&D subreddits allowed artists to link their socials on art posts.
  
  start your own instance then, this is going to be the requirement for anyone with particular needs, these instances will not cater to everyone by design.

Agree with others that I believe kbin will welcome you with open arms. Personally, the more artists the better. Having a patreon or some other link to support your work only makes sense. Heck, all the admins ask for donations to keep the instances running. What’s the difference if you do the same?

Come on over to the kbin instance. I see at least one magazine so far and no rules about Patreon links: https://kbin.social/m/art
Personally I would WELCOME you to post your Patreon. It's just a link, it's not an ad or spam. You put a lot of effort into your work and that's only fair. In fact as we push for a more decentralized web, I think it's critical content creators are able to receive funds independently of ads or platforms. Many of my favorite YouTube channels are only possible because of Patreon subscribers.
- Couldn't agree more. You throw a street musician a coin in their hat when you walk past, and I think the same is only fair on the web. You make good art, something I enjoy and want to see more of, I make a small donation to you (which I like a lot better than having 'sponsored by evil corporation' written left, right and across your picture)

I'm pretty sure there is instances that would not only welcome you with open arms but even have communities so that you can promote yourself.
Choosing your home instance is the most important step. Or you can choose a neutral instance and use it to post on artist friendly communities that might be hosted on remote instances.

Would love to see more art popping up around here. Just the thing we need.
- Are there any concerns around image hosting? I'd be up for more art too, but curious if a standard should be put in place around image hosting - namely to not overwhelm an instance's servers during a period of already meaningful growth
- And more folks using Patreons or less-enshitified Patreon-alikes.
  Literally the owning of your own labor.

There is, of course, a difference between a post that's pure ad, and a post that's art that contains a Patreon link. One provides nothing to the viewer, the other is a normal post with a little self-promotion added.
It's good to err on the side of caution in this, but the admins should really add a note about self-promotion to any rule about ads, to clarify this.
- I really do hope that they do. Otherwise, I do not think that, at least this instance, is going to have any artists, musicians, writers and other creatives be active here.
  
  Have you contacted any instance admins about this yet?

Why do you think that artists or patreon links aren't welcome?

There's !vart@pathfinder.social (pf-soc allows self-promotion).
!dnd@lemmy.ml, !pathfinder2e@lemmy.ml, or !rpg@lemmy.ml are probably worth looking at, too (lemmy.ml disallows spam and advertising, but many Fediverse instances make distinctions between advertising and "self-promotion").
dnd@lemmy.world (though .world's policy on self-promotion seems to be a little more forceful).
Also maybe look at !ttrpgs@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Finally, others have mentioned kbin.sopcial, and there's !RPG@kbin.social, but if you create an account there, you can also hit up #TTRPG and #DND (as well as #art and other visual art and design hashtags) on the microblog/"Mastodon" side of the Fediverse without juggling multiple websites.

I don’t know about sh.it just.works, but on kbin I doubt anyone would have an issue with you putting a link to your patreon in your content post. It’s not spamming and asking for donations for your work is not an ad either. After all, I see people who post their Steam pages and App Store pages up and no one complains (and that is far closer to an ad).
- Us KBeans are pretty chill in general.
  
  Lmao at KBeans, worst one i've seen was keebinetters.

I'd say make a community and I'm sure others will join. Cool artwork by the way
- The problem is that the entire instance has rules, one of those rules is no ads. So even if I create a new community, the instance rules still apply.
  
  I think its more so related to product placements. Cool community art is encouraged and I guess its no harm to link to your portfolio for users to check out. If people can link to their games or code why shouldnt you be able to link to your art.
  
  I don't think starting an instance of your own is too difficult, but I understand why it'd be nicer to host on sh.itjust.works

Just try it. You'll be fine. Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

This is dope. Our dnd master uses a lot of influence from art like yours. He would love this

If you're in a position to ask the mods directly, I do think that's a good idea. It seems like a lot of places have had broad, sweeping policies trying to keep ordinary advertisers away, and norms about individuals like you or even just smaller operations haven't been worked out.
It's not quite the same, but I really liked this (very long, sorry) Mastodon thread specifically about how there's a lot of unexplored potential approaches to "commercial entities on the fediverse," and how we might be able to set some good rules and community norms. It might be too focused on Mastodon and on larger companies for your use, but perhaps it will be a helpful input?
https://universeodon.com/@siderea/110488978072270532

I don't think it's not welcome as much as no one has really started a "magazine" or "community" for it yet. Kbin/lemmy as fairly new to the masses and it just needs a little time to grow. Please post your art. I followed many art subs on Reddit.

Not sure if this will work, but I haven't been able to respond to any comments for a while - I think the servers are probably chugging and my responses just hang.

This isn't a advertising platform, it's a community for discussion.
- As a fellow artist, I'd love to say otherwise, but sometimes we have to admit that not all platforms are built for growing your art business. Sure, you can probably get away with plugging links to your patreon/etsy every time you share your work, but you're not going to get very much revenue from it. You'll be squeezing a square block into a triangular hole.
  It's not that artists aren't welcome, it's just that the threadiverse (and reddit by extension) wasn't designed for the purposes you're describing, so you're not going to find the success you're looking for. There's nothing wrong with finding another platform that suits your needs better.

78 comments