You Don't Fix Anything By Getting Rid of Democracy and Transparency
It's not fun interacting with them when they often want to engage in ad hominems. This is why I have no interest in the tankie triad.
It's not fun interacting with them
Semi related: Something weird has been going on at dbzer0 yesterday and today. They are not normally tankies, they always seemed like they were just kind of sensible and doing their own thing, but since the time of the "pro AI" vs "anti AI" thing they now seem to have declared absolute scorched earth war on "the liberals" in the same way that the triad always has.
It's like all the issues all of a sudden came out at once. The Dragonfucker argument is back, someone has been following me around all day and hectoring me on random topics and just told me UniversalMonk did nothing wrong, they all of a sudden hate PugJesus with a hundreds-of-comments-wild-personal-attacks passion, the "anti-AI troll" banning random people mod is now posting tankie stuff... it's fuckin' nuts. It came out of nowhere.
They are not normally tankies
What, in your opinion, makes us "tankies" from what you just said? Respect for the neopronouns, intolerance towards Genai-hater trolls, or mod actions towards someone who went on a harassment campaign towards one of our users?
Anarchists always had very similar critiques towards capitalism as Marxists. Where we differ is what we do about it, and these actions is what can label someone a "tankie"
I didn't say you were tankies, I actually said you were not. I just said something weird was going on with dbzer0. Your comment here, I say without really meaning any hostility by it, is more weird stuff.
Every single one of the issues you've listed, you've reframed it into something different than it was. Neopronouns were never the issue, it was blahaj shielding a transphobic troll from criticism and banning people who complained about them (complained about them while using accepted pronouns, usually while explicitly saying 'yes I'm fine using people's pronouns'), purely because the troll cleverly decided to involve neopronouns into the issue. And then pretending that anyone who was on the "enemy" side was obviously a pronoun-hater and that was the entirety of the issue.
Intolerance towards genAI-hater trolls was never the issue, it was random mod actions against people who were not genAI-hater trolls. And then pretending that anyone who got the random unwarranted mod action was probably a genAI-hater troll.
Both of those are the dishonest framings that the people defending whatever weird decision love to use. And, no matter how often it's pointed out to them that some other people disagree with their framing, they simply ignore it, as if the person hadn't said anything at all, and repeat the framing that conveniently makes their answer the only possible answer. That is textbook tankie-instance behavior. It's part of what makes them insufferable to try to talk with. Even if your politics are clearly not tankie.
And, of course:
someone who went on a harassment campaign towards one of our users
Aha!
"One of our users."
That's the root of the issue, to me. You're starting to treat "your users" differently than other users.
One of your users spent part of yesterday following me around and replying to me in a few different threads demanding that I take part in an argument I'd already addressed and then told them I wasn't interested in continuing. Is that harassment? No, because it's your users.
There's this massive thread accusing PugJesus of all kinds of stuff: That he's pro-Israel, that he's a terminally online weirdo loser, that he never backs up anything he says, that he bans anyone who criticizes Israel, that he's transphobic and doesn't respect people's pronouns, that he's a twat, and so on. That's completely fine, because he's a "lib." He's the enemy. We can all yell at him, insult him, nothing needs to be justified, it's a big hateful groupthink that defines things in terms of enemies (and a crucial part is twisting things around so that someone can be defined as a horrifying enemy in some way, which is why they're pretending he is pro-Israel) and in-groups. Why is that all okay? Because he's not one of your users. He's the out-group, he is a liberal apparently.
In some forums, that kind of thing is disallowed. If you make personal attacks or insults, you get mod action. If you pretend someone said something they didn't say to stir up shit, you get mod action. Ada's description from a different domain was actually pretty good: There are certain types of respect that are not "a reward for good behaviour." They're just what we need to do for each other to keep the community on the rails. On most of Lemmy, the mod action for violating that kind of respect is overtly one-sided; if you're in the in-group, it's allowed, if you're aiming it towards the in-group, then you get mod action because it's a crisis.
Does that one-sided moderation, and officially badjacketing people as "Zionists" and genocide supporters and then going full-bore against them as a result, mean you're tankies? Not in the literal sense, no. But you're starting to act like the tankie instances, all of a sudden, when it seems to me like you used to be chill and sensible. You had your politics but you weren't dishonestly attacking and moderating against anyone who had some different kind of politics, and mobbing up against them like Lord of the Flies. Now it seems like you are, and it happened (from my POV at least) all of a sudden out of nowhere, and it's weird to me.
(Yes, I know what badjacketing means. I placed it in the sentence the way I did to make a point.)
I think Philip was referring to the venom and hostility on display from some lately. I said something similar to pug last night. To be clear it isn't you or anything you've done.
And I fully understand the recoiling at some of the hyper reflexive venom on display from a few when anything regarding AI is brought up. It's a tool, and neither good or bad on its own. But some squeal like drama queens if you even bring it up.
Conversely the other day I had someone from your instance call me, someone who would at least be a syndicist a shit-lib. Because I made a point of calling for solidarity and mutual aid, pointing out that our failures to do so are part of what has led us to the current points of crisis we find ourselves in. I had a bit of a chuckle at the tanky talk. But it wasn't something completely isolated. Though again I'm gonna reiterate. None of this involves you. And you aren't their keeper. They are adults who can make their own decisions and mistakes.
Tbh, dbzer0 was always kind of sus to me
Same, it always felt off to me. Maybe it's the tankies from the triad that were block and couldn't get their propaganda out so they are hiding behind a non tankie isntance
It's "anarchist" which more often than not means they've never thought about their political positions beyond the very surface level because if they did they'd realize it doesn't make any sense. Ask a group of anarchists how large scale infrastructure would be built or how societal conflicts would be resolved in their utopia and watch how their ideology completely falls apart.
It’s like all the issues all of a sudden came out at once. The Dragonfucker argument is back, someone has been following me around all day and hectoring me on random topics and just told me UniversalMonk did nothing wrong, they all of a sudden hate PugJesus with a hundreds-of-comments-wild-personal-attacks passion, the “anti-AI troll” banning random people mod is now posting tankie stuff… it’s fuckin’ nuts. It came out of nowhere.
At least the drag and PugJesus issues are related, as that's why PJ got banned on Blahaj: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/39039162
I pointed this out to you in the !fediverselore@lemmy.ca thread and you acknowledged it: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49571446/20253309
Not sure why you're saying it's coming out of nowhere when you are aware of that link.
People aren't following you around, they reply to comments you make about the whole situation
The "anti-AI troll" come up due to this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49571446/20270123
I pointed this out to you in the !fediverselore@lemmy.ca thread and you acknowledged it: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49571446/20253309
Here's PJ's response as they're banned from dbzero atm: https://feddit.uk/post/33315963/18929221
At least the drag and PugJesus issues are related, as PugJesus tried to move the !196 community after getting banned: https://feddit.org/post/7025680/4263481
You have repeatedly said this despite the fact that I had nothing to do with moving the 196 comm. I don't know why the fuck you keep spreading this lie despite the fact that I've corrected you on it several times already.
Not sure why you're saying it's coming out of nowhere when you are aware of that link.
I didn't say the issues were unrelated, I just said the stupidest Lemmy argument (among some stiff competition) was back and getting debated to death again for some fuckin' reason, along with some other stupid arguments. What the fuckin' reason was wasn't part of what I was trying to say.
People aren't following you around, they reply to comments you make about the whole situation
@eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com became very upset that an admin (he kept emphasizing that, like I need to treat someone different because they're an admin, IDK, bow and scrape? It was nothing related to admin duties, they were just weighing in in a massive whiny slapfight (on both sides)) had replied to my comment and I hadn't responded to them. One, two. I explained myself, they didn't like the explanation, and they started jumping into among other places a 4-day-old thread to try to continue the argument.
Like I said in that reply, I saw absolutely no point in getting in a new slapfight about it, told them so, and they really didn't like that explanation and tried to start the slapfight anyway in multiple threads (sort of accusing me of doing something wrong by not wanting to? IDK, it's weird, check it out.)
Anyway, that's weird, following me into random additional old threads to try to continue the argument I'd already explicitly told them I wasn't interested in is what I referred to as "following me around."
@HikingVet@lemmy.ca clarify please
dbzer0 is an Anarchist instance: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
Self-identified as one yes.
Also, I know what anarchism is, but thanks.
This is definitely not new. They were very much pushing the "Kamala and Trump are the same" narrative before the election.
Absolutely.
Palestine genocide got astroturfed by that instance heavily just before USA elections.
Similarly feddit.org/uk seems to have an increasing ampliganding accounts.
Turn on the user's instance display in your client if you can.
Can you go into more detail about this?
Pug has always been right on the Tankie line. I've had multiple accounts banned after interactions with them.
This isn't even a debate, the person who made Lemmy named themselves after a genocidal warlord lmao
They made a damn fine android app though
Dude was also a literal imperialist https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Empire_of_Haiti
the developer is obviously a bad person but Dessalines simply carried out something resembling a Nuremberg trial rather than a "genocide".
there is no historical evidence of a genocide happening in 1804. the people claiming a "white genocide" happened are white French who would obviously be biased and would want to defend their "human rights" image on the global stage.
this is akin to the binary propaganda that paints October 7 as a "genocide" and Israel's actual genocide of Palestinians as a humanitarian mission to eradicate terrorism.
No he didn't. They killed the guilty and the innocent making no effort to distinguish between them. The soldiers mostly escaped whereas civilians were murdered. In fact most people in Haiti had little stomach for the sort of purge of French women and children he desired to the point where it doesn't happen until he tours a particular settlement.
One can argue all day long he was revenging very legit harms but it doesn't make him less of a monster and his people ultimately agreed and murdered him.
Oh wow I never actually knew that.
Do you want to make a thread about that?
Uh... nobody at all has been pretending the Lemmy devs aren't tankies. The whole point of this community is dunking on tankies, but let's keep content at a level above "tankie bad haha".
Uh… nobody at all has been pretending the Lemmy devs aren’t tankies.
A large number of MLs assert that they're only being called tankies because everyone else is a shitlib who can't handle anyone left of Pelosi.
I mean yes, but even then what they're saying isn't that they're not tankies, but that we're just shitlibs who can't handle Real Leftism™. Like, MLs don't say "yeah tankies are insane, but I'm not that;" they say "there's nothing such as a tankie you shitlib," so while they do reject the label because it's derogatory they don't really contest the meat of it. If "tankie" didn't have a negative connotation they'd be wearing it proudly.
Huh? They are openly tankies why would this be a hot take?
Thank goodness piefed exists :)
Been getting my meds in order so I have the wherewithal and organization to make the move myself. Had to move one comm early, and it seems pretty functional so far. Have to admit that I'm not thrilled about the color schemes available, but that's a small price to pay for the eventual avoidance of supporting tankie ghouls.
What? You don't think 1970 / 80 was the peak of UI design? That you can ever have enough imitation green phosphor on black? LOL yes it's pretty bare at the moment. But the project itself is new enough and its come along fast enough that I think we can forgive it for now. It's definitely promising how widely it's being picked up and deployed.
Switching over account data was really easy at least. I think Voyager has it and I know Interstellar does. I used Interstellar to migrate all my Subs Etc. I saw a piefed has a link to migrate whole communities. Though I haven't tried that yet. I'm assuming it does more than just creating similarly named communities. But I haven't looked into it.
I hope we'll get more options in the future as well - I'm working on my own alternative at the moment :)
Don't know what Piefed is
If I'm not mistaken, it's a parallel project to Lemmy that's also based on ActivityPub for the fediverse. Think of it as a different terminal by different devs for the same communities.
It's not only that, they complain about everything with such fury cant they be happy about anything they have in life?
Piefed dot world needs alexandrite or at least to get the interface buttons working much faster. I click upvote and it shows up like 5-10 seconds later. Without infinite scrolling I will never make it to page 3 either. That is all the interruption my brain needs for me to be more productive and useful and not on social media so it has to go lol. Self checkout needed w/infinite scroll drool
we're currently looking into some performance issues, we're looking into updating to the latest version this weekend, which fixes a few potential deadlocks. lately we've been getting DB deadlocks rather frequently, which results in significantly worse performance until we restart one of the services.
Get rid of transparency? What's happened now?
A lot of Tankies like ML and Hexbear users promote tearing the US government down, they also favored and promoted Donald Trump and take Russia's side in the Ukraine war.
So basically they claim to be making things better by "removing democracy and transparency."
!tankiejerk@lemmy.world would welcome this!
I greatly enjoy the human creativity that went behind this meme. We need more high quality OC here.
it's a single swapped line of text from a popular movie... not exactly groundbreaking meme material, here
ELI5
Yeah. I hear the term tankie all the time and no one has given me a concise answer yet. Also devs are the people that make the product, you know, the developers. Not the people policing it's content.
Tankie is a term used derogatory that essentially refers to people who are self proclaimed communists that support the CCP and other authoritarian governments that label themselves as communist. I'm decently sure the term is a reference to the Tiananmen Square.
The tankie triad is a reference to the 3 biggest instances for them: lemmy.ml, lemmygrad.ml, and hexbear.net
Now in all honesty I have only seen a handful of bad faith actors. Usually it's because:
To me it's hypocritical to be against the current authoritarian and fascist US, but also be supportive of the authoritarian CCP and Russia. It's ok to recognize some actions that the CCP has done as an objectively good thing (like modernization of public transport), but they also deny the fact that the CCP has done atrocious acts and essentially bully the neighbors (aka the rest of Asia).
For reference I have no issues with the idea of socialism or even communism, but the CCP is far from those ideals.
You can click the links in the sidebar for what a tankie is.
But basically they're an extremist who believe in extraordinary violence, genocide and authoritarianism. They're also called red fascists, in that they share the same views and talking points of fascists, but with a pseudo-communist tinge.
Also devs are the people that make the product, you know, the developers. Not the people policing it's content.
They also have the biggest Lemmy instance with lots of big communities where they enforce the “xi jin ping/putin/kim jung un/mao/stalin/etc… is good, west bad” policy under the name of “Rule 1”
LOL mostly right wing here, and plenty of anti Tankie posts.
An .ml is enough to get them in a furious and vile Mc Carthy state.
Often Balts or Fins.
Can't blame them tho, plenty of their forfathers died fighting for Adolf on the eastern front and can't get over it.
The harder America and Israel genocide Palestinians, the harder Liberals start whining about Lemmy.ml and now even misusing the word Genocide.
All while supporting the side which is committing genocide.
Good on you for raising awareness to the real issue during a genocide and distracting from other issues, like genocide.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or community. Do you complain in gaming communities because their discussions distract from the genocide? Disliking tankies and their authoritarian views is completely divorced from supporting Israel or the genocide they're committing. I know this might be a tad difficult to understand, but you can be against Tankie authoritarianism and against American and Israeli imperialism at the same time. One does not require support for the other.
This post has nothing to do with this community. It is not even a screenshot of anything.