Tech workers react to UPS drivers landing a $170,000 a year package with a mixture of anger and admiration

Meanwhile software devs? We sit around in a comfy meeting room sipping coffee and are occasionally a bit stressed. Sure there's exceptions, but most devs I know have it pretty good while making a shit ton of money

That crab mentality (crabs in a bucket) can be hard to shake but it's got to go. The Boondocks explained it nicely (short SFW extract from an otherwise NSFW TV programme here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg4EL_JUyE)

Or, perhaps this article is just trying to sow discord between workers.

One of the old tricks in the books to make people despise unions is to take the very best union deals and sensationalize them, so that others hate the union out of jealousy.

Make it appear like the UPS driver is getting paid $170K for 32 hours of work, in a fully A/C'd vehicle on a short, easy route, starting pay, right out of college without a degree, four weeks of vacation yada yada.

When in reality, the $170K probably only kicks in if you take the absolute worst routes, worst shifts (weekend/night) with max overtime and even then, a third of it is retirement, insurance and health care contributions. And you only get the max after 10 or 20 years of service, if they didn't fire you as you increased.

I think people just don't realize how underpaid they are. They think that because they make six figures, that means they're getting paid what they're worth.

They're quoting Blind users though, Blind is a cesspool of silicon Valley tech bros. It's often just a dick measuring contest between FAANG workers about who makes more money.

Some tech workers. This is just a stupid ragebait piece.

What tech workers are saying they're underpaid? I didn't read the article because businessinsider is garbage. Some tech workers, including myself, are ridiculously over paid. Maybe my view is skewed but 170k is less than we hire college grads at today, in Seattle. Unions would probably hurt some tech workers.

Tech workers need to ask themselves why their boss makes more than them for doing nothing

You'd think these complainers would realize it's great when other jobs get a massive raise... because those engineers can now say "Why should I work here and deal with your nonsense when UPS drivers are making near 100K in low cost of living income areas?"

Like, please please please let the cashiers at walmart start making 30 dollars an hour so I can tell my boss that I need a raise or I'm dipping to walmart.

They don't have to worry too much about us tech workers unionizing because the tech world is full of more introverts on average than other (especially blue collar) fields. And a lot of us are constantly scared of getting fired or replaced.

So many of us still believe the lie that our individual hard work will be rewarded.

It's going to be a while.

I was fantasizing a bit about becoming wealthy enough to stop working, and it occurred to me that the actual best thing to do if I'm ever in that position would be to start talking with my coworkers about unionizing. Then maybe even get fired for it and sue for more money. Money I'd probably plow back into unionizing tech workers.

As a fellow tech worker, I agree. Probably most tech workers would agree, but since that's boring, this article focuses on the opinion of just "some tech workers on social media". So dumb.

As a tech worker in Europe, the concept of "deserving" or "not deserving" a specific number has always been a total joke. Your salary is like 80% determined by location alone.

Any notion of "merit" (whatever that even means, there isn't even a good way of measuring it in many industries) has always been only very loosely correlated with compensation.

So if you can get it, go get it.

"To get a base salary of $170k you know you need to work hard as an Engineer, this sucks."

Bitch, UPS workers work harder than I ever did as an electronics engineer.

If he wants the $170k so badly, he should go get a job as a driver then.

"To get a base salary of $170k you know you need to work hard as an Engineer, this sucks."

As someone who has worked as a UPS driver and now as a software developer, I can say that the UPS drivers definitely work harder than your average engineer.

That quote is also deftly ignoring the fact that you’re generally paid for the value you generate, not how hard to you work.

I'm starting to think people should be forced to have at least 1 year of experience in a, so called, blue-collar job before they are allowed to have an office job.

Fucking truth, especially for software engineers. I spent most of today debating whether to use npm or pnpm for some project that's probably just going to get mothballed anyway.

I mean I know my worth, but I definitely don't work even 1/23rd as hard as even the laziest delivery driver imaginable. Even pretending to be a delivery driver is more work than my actual job.

As a tech worker in rhe U.S. we are definitely not being exploited. I'm all for unions but we're doing just fine.

This is also why most jobs should be unionized

And it's not like their win is our loss. Why would we fight amongst ourselves? It's the ultra-rich we should be sizing up.

My guess the naysayers are toxic tech bros. There are some really toxic tech bros. More accurate, there are some really toxic people in tech only as a means to a high salary.

Same reason straight people are opposed to gay marriage? Who the fuck knows

Blind is a tech bro incel cesspool sometimes.

It's a good objective, but it would take a lot to make it happen. It's significantly more challenging for tech workers to effectively unionize en masse for several reasons:

• Tech isn't monopsonistic, or even close to it; there isn't a single large employer... even the biggest tech companies employ only a relatively small fraction of the tech workforce. That means separate unionization efforts at thousands of big companies, not at one.
• Tech job functions are much more widely varied than "delivery driver"; job responsibilities differ greatly, complexity and education requirements differ greatly, workplace expectations differ greatly ... think of the difference between help desk, front end dev, network security engineering, data science and DBA. Collective bargaining is harder the more varied the needs of the collective are.
• Job mobility is really high in the tech sector ... in other words, tech employees (by and large) have access to many prospective employers (especially with the prevalence of remote work), and tech employers to a wide geographic pool of talent. That means if your San Francisco office seems on the path to unionization, you can shift work to your Chennai office.
• It also means that, when the working conditions at a tech company suck, a lot of tech workers can easily jump ship. It's hard to get a union going when your voters can easily quit and go work someplace nicer, rather than take the more difficult path of staying and trying to force your employer to improve.

Again, I think highly of unions and would really like to see more effective unionization efforts in tech -- I just want folks to go into it eyes wide open and intelligently, vs throwing up their hands and saying, "Why don't tech workers unionize?"

Whenever I see a delivery driver or pole worker or whatever, especially on a shitty day, from the window of my cozy home office, the same thought crosses my mind

It's because people are realizing it works. Like airline attendants are on the picket line with the actors and the writers now. A win for any of them is a win for all of us. Power to the people baby

It's a tactic to pit us against each other rather then the proper people running to the bank.

I mean techbro pay is often way past that. Total yearly comp in the 400+. It's just all in RSU.

Driving quickly but safely with an oversized vehicle is a skill.

Preparing so you can survive on the road for an entire day, is a skill.

Delivering loads of items on a tight schedule, despite all the shit that life is going to throw at you (accidents, roadworks, dog attacks, etc) is a skill.

Can we stop with this "low skill" bullshit? Most white-collar workers wouldn't last a week in one of these jobs. The low/high skill classification is just a way for the managerial classes to justify their outsized profiteering remuneration.

This is true. Hence why garbage men are paid quite a lot. Low skill but a very difficult job.

"A rising tide lifts all boats" is something Republicans say is impossible because God wouldn't let the liberal commie boats rise with the patriot boats.

My housing development is a confusing maze of twisty streets. The street I live on takes multiple turns where another street starts when my street should have gone straight on. My UPS person deserves every penny just for being able to figure out which house is which.

Interestingly, we sort of can't. Someone would have to write an article about it and no large, for-profit media company would publish it.

yep

I’ll take my lower salary to sit in my home office with central air

I wouldn’t last a day as a driver with their expectations and the need to move/lift heavy packages in the heat

“Business insider”…yea. With quotes from the CEO about how unfair things are.

I've never understood the idea of being mad about what another industry is making. They make more money than you? Great go put in an application. Don't want to work in that industry? Then maybe they deserve the better pay. If you truly think you are that superior to the other industry then use their pay to bargain at your own job.

If you're a nurse who's working long hours at a job that requires an education and you're getting paid the same as a McDonald's cook, don't be mad at the cook, be mad at your employer. Go to them and demand a raise, and say I could work there for the same pay, spend more time with my family and not be responsible for keeping people alive. Pay me or I'm going to peace out.

I doubt any tech workers are angry. The article is click-bait to enrage non-tech workers.

Not sure why that is but energy jobs pay a lot. Had a friend who worked on an oil rig and made about 400k

I would still try to fight for more than you make. It will be tough, don't get me wrong, but I think most industries are in this position one way or another. Everything is going up, and everyone has to eat. Why can't everyone make more, so less people suffer? The costs for everyone have certainly increased. A lot of these "record profits" should really be finding their way to employees, but they rarely do anymore.

With the "unskilled coal mine work" example specifically, I believe a big reason for their pay rate is the numerous immediate and long term health risks that are associated with it. Historically, mining has been a pretty fatal/dangerous job. They miners will probably need that money down the road if they get any of those bad conditions. It's certainly not a job that I would feel safe doing, nor is it one I would ever do for cheap. You should look into all of the associated lung diseases and ths effects that certain mined materials can have on the human body, especially with prolonged exposure. PPE can only do so much sometimes.

When I see people making more than me with less skill, I think "damn, I should be making that too". Why can't both jobs have good pay rates? Both would be nice. What a world we live in.

If you can, unionizing might help. It takes the company perspective from "we'll lose one great guy" to "holy shit, everything will crash and burn if we don't meet their demands!". I would also look into the laws in your area. Where I live, unions can protect you well before you actually create a contract. That knowledge was very useful to my coworkers and I a couple of years ago, because we previously thought that they could just fire us for trying to join a union (jobs are at-will here).

If you get a good union, the pros can outweigh the fees easily. They can cut right through a LOT of corporate bs, and they will usually provide lawyers for you if your company tries to screw you over. The lawyers mine provides are pretty top-tier.

It’s businessinsider. The answer is always “no”

They found a post on an anonymous forum complaining and made an article about it because it fits their narrative that workers are being paid too much

They even misspelled “job” in the middle of the article they spent so little time proofreading or fact checking

Edit: The only interesting lines in the article

could get $170,000 in pay and benefits in five years' time

The agreement has yet to be officially approved

Seems to me there's a concentrated effort to convince the public that there's outrage.

Why don't they go work for UPS then?

That's the point of a union -- people in skilled and sophisticated work can benefit from it too, but the folks whose jobs are extremely demanding but basically fungible really need a union.

My FIL recently retired after 25+ years with UPS. He made pretty good money, but he worked a ton of overtime. IIRC their top pay rate was somewhere between $30-35/hour. That puts base pay at about $75k/year. I wonder how UPS calculated the extra $100k/year in benefits or if they're assuming their average driver works some quantity of overtime. I'm betting it's the second, which would drive the numbers up. However, to make that kind of money you're going to be working 50+ hours a week and most holidays.

Unionize

Grind leetcode!

Keep doing our jobs. We get paid well enough to afford the price increase in shipping things via UPS.