People who have permanently moved to another country, what gave you the opportunity and was it worth it?
I'm trying to make a move myself and am curious what worked and how well it turned out.
A company was willing to sponsor my visa and pay for relocation costs. Was it worth it? In some other world it might have been, but the way it went for me - absolutely not.
If your entry point into a society is work, make really really sure you will like it. "Culture fit", despite all the criticisms of the concept, is more important than ever. And make sure the initial social circle you fall into is conductive to your mental wellbeing.
In some ways it's like being born. Your starting point matters. Anything you achieved previously doesn't matter since your entire support system will be gone.
All you say depends heavily on where you came from and where you went, but also what job you got. Which is quite clear from the post and yet you mentioned nothing of that.
Hey, I did that!
Engineer in my 30s. We packed up and left the US after I got a job in the EU (pre 2nd trump). It's been awesome!
Super hard some days, lots of learning, cultural norming, work, job problems, language learning, social circle building, but it's very fulfilling and I think it's a better lifestyle fit for us.
Highly recommend it if you can swing it. And if you do, jump all in.
Glad that's been working out for you!
What were some things you did that made the hard things less hard?
What went really well?
Who is "we" that moved with you?
Thinking about doing the same thing, working on getting my EU passport now.
No EU passport for me sadly, just a visa. If I could get one I super would want to.
We is my partner and I. Very much a team effort.
great question. I think giving yourself some grace has been a hard but helpful part. Like you will probably not have the bandwidth for keeping the house as clean, the working out, the self improvement, etc etc. Just even giving myself extra time to go to the store and extra space to make boring or meh meals has helped.
Beyond that, all the stuff you'd expect. Putting yourself out there. Listening. Money never hurts (and can help fix certain problems). Friends (from afar and close) are huge.
I began volunteering shortly after arriving and it helped make me a friend circle. I love hanging with them and already can't wait for Thanksgiving here!
I was offered a job that payed much better than my old one. So I'd say it's well worth it.
Downside is that it takes years to build up a new social circle when you're in late 30s (might vary with personality).
In Germany the trick is joining a Verein (club). Instant social circle.
Moved from EU to US during Trump1/just before COVID. Loved the pay check, the weather and the nature, hated the work culture, the food culture, the lack of culture, the lack of a social net and of social cohesion, the ingrained racism.
Moved from US to Germany, liked it but didn’t love it. Loved to social net and the beer gardens, the parks and public transport, struggled making connections and learning the language.
Moved from Germany to France, loved it. Great food, great weather, good work life balance, great social net, amazing food and good culture, people are friendly and welcoming (not in Paris or overly touristy places). Only downside is being away from family and having to build my social circle again.
You don't think French do weird shit all the time?
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Maybe you are French yourself.
Not French, but from nearby. Culturally very similar. I really understood how much cultural expectations are deeply ingrained, and how much they play a tole in making me feel “at home”.
There are still things that French people do that I find odd, but not overly much, and more in a cute way than an annoying one.
Moved from Germany to the Bay Area in 2017. Was an interesting experience, I now understand why they hate health insurance so much. Overall it wasn’t half as good as they make it out to be. We were lucky since we could afford it but I don’t want to live in that place.
Moved to Vancouver right before Covid hit and we’re not going to go back to Germany except to visit friends and family. It’s weird to see how conservative and backwards the whole country is and will forever be. With AFD on the rise and the overall negative attitude of Germans we don’t miss it one bit. Canada is much nicer and we’re dual citizens now 👍
Moved from San diego, CA, USA, to tijuana, BC, Mexico. Literally just drive across the border and find somewhere to rent.
I still drive to San Diego to work every day.
I had a friend who lived that way for years in Baja, just went over for work and went home, loved it there.
My family moved from Mainland China to the US in around 2010. I was a kid so I did not have a choice, but I do remember being excited about it. When I got here, things were rough, language barrier, and ptsd lingering from my abusive older brother made it hard to socialize, I didn't have much friends. So I didn't like it too much at first, but I did like how there were just so much more trees even in the city (I mean not really city-city, more like suburban ourskirts of a City, Brooklyn I mean), air feels cleaner in the US, my mother thought the same too. I've grown too used to western media, I can never live in Mainland China ever again, the only options for me are now mostly other western countries lile Canada and Australia. As for the US, I liked it until November 2024, now it feels like a foreign army has invaded the country, doesn't feel very like "America" anymore. But I still prefer the US to Mainland China, even as of today.
My parents, even though they are PRC-Sympathizers (to clarify, they're NOT communists, just "homesick" I guess), never seriously talked about wanting to go back, dual citizenship doesn't exist in China, and my mother already got US citizenship so I don't know if PRC even restores revoked citizenships.
Was it worth it? I mean... idk, but I definitely had access to more entertainment content than I ever could in Mainland China, so in that aspect, yes, absolutely. I don't think I could've ever tolerated China, I mean, being practically the only person who has a sibling would be very weird (I'm the second child in my family born during one child policy), Hukou situation is messed up, Toxic Masculinity is 2x worse, massive corruption problems, food safety problems, child abductions/trafficking that authorities don't care about, the infamous 豆腐渣工程 (tofu-dreg)... it mean its absolutely just cooked.
(But then... November 2024 happened... So yea, the US is becoming like China all over again. Jesus christ, my life is torture, pretty sure this is a simulation and this is some High-Tech torture chamber by the Galactic Empire.)
TLDR: I wished it was Norway instead, but I'll accept US over mainland China.
Hey, i am commenting here because it's for OP... how did they get that chick flair? 🤔
I was able to move to the country my wife grew up in - she, as a citizen, sponsored my visa. We moved from an area with relatively high real estate cost (sold for over $1mil - we had a mortgage, but also significant equity) to an area where it's much, much, cheaper (bought for about $100k currency corrected) so we could retire early - we're both ~60.
I came to Korea from Canada in 2004 to teach English for a "year or two". I'm still here. I have zero regrets, though I do wonder sometimes what my life would be life if I'd stayed in Canada.
If you moved back, you would have become a bald twitch streamer.
I'm sure this is referencing someone, but I have no idea who. Twitch is blocked in Korea.
Are you still teaching English or did you manage to get out and do something else? My understanding of English teaching in Asia is that it's a bit of a career trap.
Well, I now run my own (half-owned) school in one of the most beautiful places on the planet, work four days a week, 6 hours a day, and fund several hobbies, a nice house, and a gym habit. I can't really complain. Maybe I'd have a more secure retirement working as a middle manager back home, but which one sounds like more of a career trap to you? Oh, and I can transfer my pension to Canada and go live there when I retire if I really want to.
You would have been closer to Daddy Trump.
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So, a lot more of life sucking and a lot less pretty boys to fawn over.
Yeah, the past twenty years have been a bit of a roller coaster ride watching what's happening in NA. Ironically, I thought I'd be moving into a blatantly corrupt government basically run by crony capitalists. And yeah, Korea has its share of that, but wow, things out west have been falling apart horribly recently. South Korea seems to have its head on straight by comparison. Canada at least doesn't seem to have fallen too far down the fascist rabbit hole, yet.
I'm receiving tech patent royalties and moved with wife to France. I have lived in Malaysia and Singapore and a little time in Spain before this.
Our life didn't change much, but we have a new baby and the constant back and forth of us politics makes it no longer a good investment for me in the US. We don't want to worry about shootings and extremists and corporations allowed to steal from us and worrying about taking a baby to the emergency department because of costs. Food is miles better, healthcare is great and affordable even not yet being covered by the national scheme. I'm clearing out my real estate and investments in the US and going to start again in France. Making friends, especially french friends, is slow, but to be fair we haven't had time to invest in and participate in our hobbies. I'm sure when we do we will find our people (french lessons will help too). I am happy to pay the extra tax and social charges to preserve the system here as it is.
Pros: far better and cheaper food, weather where we are in the south is great, cars expensive but affordable, much less driving but I still own a car, great schools and accessible healthcare. Cheaper rent, and cheaper house prices. I also personally agree with the very real concept of egality in France- everyone is treated the same.
Cons: things take longer here, some rules and rights aren't quite as good as elsewhere in Europe because France is a bit conservative in some ways. Situations not within the normal permanent work contract in France and background in France can sometimes complicate things. Pay would be less if I had a local job, but I don't think my life would be negatively impacted much.
Moved from Austria to the Netherlands at the age of 19. I moved in with my (then) boyfriend so that made the transition easier.
It was weirdly more of a culture shock than I had anticipated. Mainly because lots of things (besides the architecture) are so similar that the differences kind of sneak up on you. Having German and English as a base made Dutch easy enough. Got an advanced language certificate and ended up getting the nationality, found a study I liked and plenty of job opportunities. It has been over 15 years now and I regret nothing.
The only thing that didn’t work out was that relationship.
I moved for work. I jokingly asked my boss one day if I could relocate and did not expect an easy yes. 2 years after asking, I was in another country. Was it worth it? Yes. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity and not many people get the chance, so I took it. I didn't even care what city I was going to end up in (we have multiple offices in across the country).
I did end up in a different city than what was initially planned, but for someone in my situation (wanting to get out of a 3rd world country), beggars can't be choosers. I've since settled in with my wife. Assimilating wasn't an issue because my home country is very exposed to western culture and we're fluent in the language.
I went from US to UK. It was the easiest way out, as a dual citizen by birth. Still hard, with a baby and a wife in tow, neither UK citizens, during a pandemic. My job did a lot of legwork for me, incorporated a subsidiary in the UK for me to work here remotely.
Our families have only been American for roughly one generation so far (bar one or two grandparents), I'm just taking us back to one of our home countries, belatedly. Philippines seemed like a non-starter, as did Croatia. The UK has a lot of the same problems as the US, but at a different scale.
The craziest part was that until we emigrated, we'd never even been to the UK. But we had a certainty several years ago that America was going where we couldn't follow. I wish I could have travelled more, growing up.
I'd say it was worth it. I just wish I had more cards in my hand to choose from, or that the UK was still in the EU. Whole world's a mess these days though, just playing the hand I've been dealt.
I've been a digital nomad for almost 20 years now as a software engineer. It's by far the best way to live imo especially if you can have remote income. The world is incredible, there are so many places, so many cultures, so many people to connect with - living in a single location seems like missing out.
Moved from the US to Germany in 2023 through my work (and the EU Blue Card). It has been life changing and I want to stay forever, eventually becoming a citizen and renouncing my US citizenship.
AMA
What has changed about your life?
So much!
The things that I immediately felt:
Those are the things I've felt most readily. But there have been numerous statistical improvements that I want to highlight:
Don't mind me I'm also looking through the replies, I'm not qualified to answer this question... I basically followed the trend and drifted from China to the US for education & thought I would have stayed permanently, but wow things went down the drain quickly (left before the ICE did their thing in Chicago...). I am still trying to figure out the new country (Belgium) I found a job and relocated to at the moment
Hope things are going well in Belgium!
I had a good job for a few years and I spoke the language. I wasn’t planning it the whole time, I just tend to save money, and when the pandemic hit, I realized that living near my family doesn’t guarantee that I get to see them, so why not live where I want?
I had done one year of study abroad and a second year of being a normal student at a German university about fifteen years ago, and I’d wanted to live in Germany since. During the pandemic, I joined a discord server with some Germans, began dating one, and had time working from home to do a four hour intensive German class every day before work online.
I was able to stay with the person I was dating for a few weeks while applying to all sorts of internships, master’s programs, and volunteer positions that would give me a visa, and I sent my cat to a different friend’s house until I got into a program and moved into my own apartment. At the time, everything seemed far, far more complicated than it needed to be, and I definitely do still consider immigration in Germany to be kafkaesque, but I now realize how lucky I was that everything fell into place.
It’s now been over four years and I’m married to a (different) German, but I don’t think I’ll really fully unclench until I’m a citizen. I’m from the US, and it’s starting to look fucking terrifying, so I’m very glad that I’m here and that I’m a little more settled. I’m still slogging at my degree (I opted to take a full year of just intense German classes when I started, so it’s not quite as long as it sounds- unfortunately I wasn’t allowed to work during that time and they’re expensive as fuck) and my husband’s an apprentice, so it’s financially a little tight. I liquidated my retirement account in my mid thirties, which felt bad, but I’d like to keep an emergency fund and we’ll be able to save a lot more in a few years and we’ll be entitled to small pensions.
I would say it was worth it. I moved from the Netherlands to Germany for three years for a Master's and then to Canada for a PhD and stayed there and got a job. It's a great way to experience different cultures (though all Western of course).
For the move to Germany, it was really easy. It's all EU so all I had to really do was register at the Kreisverwaltungsreferat. I had also applied for a grant to study abroad so that paid the tuition as well as the rent. Tuition in Germany is very low by the way. It was also a great way to build independence since I had to rely a lot on myself, having come all alone.
I did meet my lovely Canadian spouse there, so there was the opportunity to move to yet another country. Immigration is a massive pain, even when married to a Canadian, but it all worked out with student visa, permanent resident, and finally citizen. Took years!
The downside is of course being 6000km away from my family. Especially from my parents who are not getting any younger. So it's hard to be there for them if something happens. But overall, I would say it was worth it. The experiences have been great and I get to spread ideas that work well from places I've been to my new home in Canada. The lack of proper licorice here is baffling though!
I live in rural Canada, our local (left coast) grocery has the palm-oil-free NZ licorice RJ’s, which is pretty good, and a specialty confectionery in the village nearby has some great icelandic licorice but it’s expensive.
But at 6K km I guess you are on the prairies, so good luck on the licorice hunt eh!
Heh, I rounded the number too much. I'm actually in Ottawa where there is a Dutch grocery store with a large selection. I'm just baffled why Canadians are so reluctant about that stuff. There seems to be only a 50% chance of people liking licorice. Weird! 😆
Went to live in Mexico because of girl. Got married twice, divorced twice
Stayed for decades
Not easy, but man do I have stories to tell ya. It was interesting for sure!
Now live in Canada, been here a few years already. It's quieter, so much quieter.
Tip: make sure you use a lawyer or at least someone with expertise with the local immigration rules because if you don't, it might ruin your life.
Also, don't move to the USA, it's a silly place.
It's only a model...
I think the number one thing that made it possible was the willingness to try. Covid hit; very early in the cruise ships are staying out of port phase… my family decided it was time. We’ve always been rambling. But I was already ready to leave my job at the time.
Having sufficient education and experience helps to get a skilled work visa, but so does willingness to try and to take, in my case, a 50% pay cut.
It has been a great 5 years, and I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Thanks for sharing. I'm trying to acquire a critical skills work permit myself; I just need a company to sponsor me but I'm ~80 applications in with no responses yet.
I wish you luck. I applied one place and just got lucky.
Erasmus and no. Turns out all three countries I've lived in take away your pension when you've not lived there for a while.
EU free movement and hell yes. It's so good I emigrated twice.
And you had to tell us about it thrice!
My instance had a rough few days where everything was timing out and double posting 🙁
Guess the first move wasn't so good after all? If you did it again
or it turned out so great that when presented the opportunity they were excited to do so
It was from meh to good and from good to great.
Married someone from another country and moved to be with them. Wouldn't change a thing.
EU free movement and hell yes. It's so good I emigrated twice.
I moved back to my home country from the USA. So glad I did. We're on the up and up and see no fascism in sight. We're getting plenty of gentrification driving up prices and displacing our locals, though... 🙄
Our familiy (2 parents and us 4 kids) moved from Russia to France. None of us spoke French. Worth it every second
Trying to learn a FSI category 5 language when you don't have a dedicated language class is an ongoing and frustrating experience, but the cost of living is low, the countryside is peaceful, and going back to the states right now seems crazy.
https://www.state.gov/foreign-service-institute/foreign-language-training
I can’t find category 5 languages following that link
Oops, typo--I meant cat 4. I live in rural Japan.
EU free movement and hell yes. It's so good I emigrated twice.
Well I moved to Berlin at the end of last month. I lived in a "developing country" with a declining economy and a far right dictator that is technically chosen but everyone knows he steals votes and everything. Soo especially as a queer person studying aboard as an international student and not coming back was always the end goal.
You left the US? Good on you.
Turkey It is like US but more backwards and poor
What gave you the opportunity to move?
Well winning one of those schools that roll you through international curriculums like Matura, Abitur or IB instead of the national one through the transfer from middle school to high school and doing their exams in the end of high school instead of the national one to get to enroll abroad
I went to Pueblo Mexico at 18 on a youths mission trip. We worked at an orphanage, we dug/built a well and helped with a couple bigger projects like "renovation" a barn. We had learned some plays and songs and puppet shows and we performed for/with the children. It was with my church, it was Christian based. It was an amazing experience, I wouldn't trade it for anything.
I also went to Peru and sailed down the Amazon stopping at villages performing skits/plays/songs and prayed and fellowshipped with the locals. Ive done local out reaches too, providing food and services for the homeless.
My Christian life has been about serving others. As it should be IMO. God provides literally every I need, anything extra I try to use to bless other people.
That is Christianity. Not to toot my own horn, I dont need to, God will toot my horn :). Loving God and loving each other are literally the 2 most important things in this life. Anyway. If you read this, God bless you.
Moved from the US to the Netherlands in 2023 and regret nothing. The opportunity came in the form of the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty. It makes it ridiculously easy for Americans to move to the Netherlands, if you are self employed. It worked for me to move, and when my business went sideways due to my main client screwing me over, I got a normal Dutch job as a highly-skilled migrant.
Downsides:
Benefits:
There's probably more benefits, but those are the highlights for me. All around though, the biggest advantage is that I can easily see a much better future for myself and my wife in the Netherlands than I can in the US.
I almost asked my boss like 20 years ago while I was vacationing near Amsterdam with my girlfriend-now-wife about moving to The Netherlands as we had an office there, but never did. Still wonder how different life would have turned out. It’s an amazing country.
This is an amazing rundown and I can appreciate how most of the downsides are food-based.
This is huge, it's exhausting to have to deal with the fallout of calling in sick that I sometimes work through it so I don't have to deal with the bs.
Edited formatting
Isn't there a housing problem atleast in Amsterdam?
There is, nationwide.
But also everywhere else in Europe, and everywhere in the US that I would be willing to live. What can you do eh?
I'm sorry but you lost me at the lack of food options
Good food does exist, it just takes some time and effort to find out where to go and where should be blacklisted. And there's like three good Mexican restaurants in the whole country.
Oh I thought the same thing.
Spicy food - eh I guess I could ship in hot sauces etc. No biggie Korean food - damn...that really sucks but Mexican food - dammit, I'm done
I always joke with the wife about opening restaurants for hard to find cuisine wherever we evetually move to. Currently that's legit BBQ for the PNW if we end up there.
There are probably more food options than most U.S cities, just not the same ones.
Hey fellow Mexican food lover. I'm a displaced Texan, now living in Drenthe since 2019. Lemme know of some good restaurants that serve good guac and enchilladas. I went to Bramigo ("Authentic Tex-Mex") in Assen and stared in disbelief at sauceless enchilladas with some tauge (soybeans) on top. Will not go back.
Oof, you're probably as out of luck in Drenthe as I am in Nijmegen. In Amsterdam I can recommend La Condesa and Tacoteca as pretty good. I've heard rumors of places in Den Hague but I haven't gotten there yet.