1d ago

There’s a growing number of Americans who think violence might be necessary to get the country back on track

www.pbs.org There’s a growing number of Americans who think violence might be necessary to get the country back on track

Nearly a third of Americans – 30% – say people may have to resort to violence in order to get the country back on track, according to the latest PBS News/NPR/Marist poll.

It’s a sharp rise from 18 months ago, when 19% of Americans said the same.

329 comments

It’s a horrific moment to see that people honestly believe that there’s no other alternative at this point than to resort to political violence.
I mean… is it? I think it’s pretty obvious in the context of the regime essentially giving itself carte blanch to perpetrate political violence on its desired scapegoats and opponents.
I’m frankly getting pretty fucking tired of people complaining about how this is a startling development and being shocked by what’s happening. They wrote a playbook back in 2019. They published it on the open internet. They said they would follow it. They are now following it. You are not allowed to be surprised by any of this.
- This country is BUILT on political violence. The revolutionary war. The civil war. Hundreds of thousands of people died in those conflicts. Only more recently have non-violent protests accomplished anything and that was only possible because of the more free atmosphere those wars established in this country. That freedom is now almost entirely gone. What choice do people have left?
  
  Don't forget the riots and strikes between 1900 and 1920 (or 30?).
  Successful application of violence today is complicated by the sophistication of surveillance and the electronic, centralized distribution of money.
  It's difficult to pull together a large enough coalition to be able to fight effectively because the process of finding those people is short circuited by early discovery.
  Nonviolence is the only way until a large enough segment of the population is desperate enough to trigger action.
  Before that happens, effective leaders must be found and a support network must be readied to go into action quickly to professionalize and unify it when it happens, but before that is used to manage nonviolent action..
  
  Incredibly recently. The Civil Rights movement included advocacy for political violence, and arguably one of the only reasons it worked was Malcolm X and the Black Panthers saying "hey here's our alternative if our nonviolent fight doesn't work, we're all strapped and willing to hand out more guns if shit requires it".
  
  that was only possible because of the more free atmosphere those wars established in this country.
  And a healthy dose of "or else" political violence.
- But Trump (lied and) said he didn’t know anything about Project 2025.
  You’re not allowed to say the part in brackets without summoning the Gestapo.

We need a general strike. The country would be brought to its knees if deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would've had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren't in a union, then please consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you'll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we finally manage to enact one (the UAW is planning one for May 1st 2028, but it could happen sooner)
🌍 US/Global: IWW (Français) - (Español)
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn't listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above.
🇦🇷 Argentina: FORA
🇦🇺 Australia: ASF-IWA
🇧🇷 Brazil: FOB
🇧🇬 Bulgaria: ARS, CITUB
🇩🇪 Germany: FAU
🇬🇷 Greece: ESE
🇮🇹 Italy: USI
🇳🇱 🇧🇪 Netherlands & Belgium: Vriji Bond
🇪🇸 Spain: CNT
🇸🇪 Sweden: SAC
🇬🇧 United Kingdom: UVW
- Can you afford not to get paid for 2 weeks? If so you're in the minority. Most people can't. Not to mention they have kids they are worried about, medical conditions that they can barely afford even with insurance. Rising housing and grocery costs. Etc..
  I'm not trying to be a downer. I would love to see this happen, but we need a "realistic" way to accomplish it, to convince a majority to participate.
  
  Unions build up strike-funds with membership dues so that members can continue to receive a salary while striking, that's why unions are so essential for working class people to be able to flex their power non-violently.
  Consider that Chile is a much less wealthy country than the US. but was able to successfully commit to a general strike for over a month.
  
  Realistic way is people just drop out of consumer economy to the fullest degree possible for them. Cancel all unnecessary subscriptions, shop local for only necessities. Look how quickly Disney blinked just because of a wave of cancellations, now do that everywhere.
  
  Wrong way of thinking, buddy boy.
  If you can't afford to go without pay for 2 weeks now, then where do you think you'll be in 2 years time?
  Act now while you're breathing, for the sake of being able to breathe.
  
  Can they afford to live under a fascist dictatorship that crushes dissenters and disappears citizens at will? It seems that by "realistic" resistance you mean "without inconvenience" but we're never going to get to that point. That seems to be what people are hoping for and it just doesn't work that way. The longer we wait the more sacrifice will be required.
  
  Can you afford not to get paid for 2 weeks? If so you’re in the minority. Most people can’t.
  The general strike is being planned for almost 3 years out. We would have to save less than 2% of our paycheck to more than cover 2 weeks without being paid. We need to normalize preparing for a general strike, and be willing to help each other if needed when the time comes
  
  Perhaps this is why trump just declared war on nonprofits. They could potentially pull together resources to keep people fed during a coordinated nationwide strike.
  They in general exist to tackle goals directly opposed to fascist regimes, so it males sense to target them.
  Education, social justice, feeding the hungry, and protecting nature are all examples of goals Trump's regime are staunchly against.
  
  To add on to this:
  Look what happens when people protest or go on strike. Everyone SAYS they are in full solidarity with the workers at Starbucks. But they also gotta get to work and that picket line is really holding up traffic... and now they also need to drive three blocks away to a different Starbucks. Look, something something no ethical consumption under capitalism so fuck you I earned this coffee milkshake and maybe if you worked harder you could buy one too.
  A General Strike requires a fairly overwhelming majority of support to begin with. And, if we had that... we wouldn't be inching ever closer to a civil war.
  
  Can you afford not to get paid for 2 weeks? If so you’re in the minority. Most people can’t.
  Let's be honest most people living in first world countries can indeed do that but they don't like to renounce to all the commodities they have.
- This is the only path other than violence and just as likely not to happen.
- I agree that a general strike is the absolute least that should be done. But a general strike would have to hit the ground with the EXPECTATION that it will get violent.
  It's inevitable that Cheeto will try to use his jackbooted thugs to crack down hard, and taking it meekly and then hoping to sue over it later won't be an option.
  When the MAGA S.A. come to put you down, they aren't going to stop. I'm not saying that the strikers should start violence. But go in eyes open with the understanding that a a certain point, you all are going to have to make the fuckers bleed because they won't think twice about doing it to you.
  
  At this point I'm tired of people trying to give a prescription for the 'right way to do things'
  “A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” Hunter S. Thompson
- I'm in favor of both options at once
- Even if you are in a union, join the IWW as well. Most modern unions are insufficiently radical for what's coming, and all the best organizers I know are IWW dual-carders
  
  Agree 100%! For others reading, here's a good article on the merits of dual-carding.
- Gotta overturn the Taft Hartley Act to even make that legal.
  
  If the law would lead us to fascism, then the law must not be followed. They will come for us regardless of if we follow the law or not.

Gee, almost as if Russian propaganda is working.
Before the Civil War one politician opined that if a war started you'd be able to mop up all the blood spilled with one handkerchief.
Anyone who thinks a new fight will be any easier has probably never been in a real fight.
- I don't think people realize that if a new US civil war kicked off the lines wouldn't be as clear as north vs south. this would be state vs state, city vs city, neighbor vs neighbor. you could draw lines in your god damn sub division/street.
  And if it were alliances between states it would be a god damn logistical nightmare. Imagine California being allied with New York for example. or Hell Minnesota being allied with like Arizona or whatever. how do you move supplies, troops, and what have you between allied states when you got a shit ton of hostiles between the two.
  Add to the fact that unlike the first civil war you now have US military bases all over the world. what happens when you got folks within the SAME base in the middle of Germany that suddenly don't "agree" with each other?
  Cluster fuck is an understatement.
  
  There'd also be a shit-ton of drone warfare. Thousands will die without ever seeing their killers face. It's also entirely possible AI will be bombing people and you'll basically be killed by an algorithm.
  
  It's also why we need to avoid violence and make the regime stumble into itself.
  Which is why Chinese and Russia propaganda is attempting to stoke the fire (remember, they eliminated their opposition, so they don't have the same experience inciting violence and they think they do).
  
  I saw one dream map where Canada drops two tentacles; one reaches down through the West all the way to San Diego, and the Eastern one reaches just north of Washington.
  Humor aside, I agree with your take. A war of assassins and terrorists on both sides.
  I'll add one more note. Back in the day, the Irish Republican Army was the most feared underground in the world. They only had a handful of soldiers, but a superb organization. If a shooter was supposed to kill someone in Geneva, he'd have three or four cars waiting when he got to the airport, and each driver would know five places the shooter could stay. He'd have a choice of getaway drivers and extra safe houses and docotrs on tap.
  
  This is why the techniques pioneered by the native americans, and taught to colonial rebels by their experience fighting with them, would be the most likely path.
  What is that, you ask? Guerilla warfare. It's why we were able to defeat the most powerful colonial empire since the Romans.
  We had the same conditions you described, a good chunk of people who still considered themselve British were mixed in with those who sought freedom.
  
  Its going to be more like the people vs the federal gov.
  
  or Hell Minnesota being allied with like Arizona or whatever.
  Isn’t Hell in Michigan?
  
  It would be a clusterfuck. Especially since the type of violence some have advocated for recently is more akin to political assassination. We need to push back on the false equivalence of "person X says stuff I don't agree with about perceived identities, therefore that speech 'unpersons' me, therefore it's tantamount to a death threat, therefore actual violence against that person is justified." You can literally find examples in these comments here.
  If you have thousands of lonewolves each deciding unilaterally to assassinate (insert political opponent or public figure here) based on their own subjective perceptions, that no longer resembles a civil war, it more resembles a free-for-all hellscape.
  I'd suggest a more useful concept is to form strong local communities committed to their own well being, mutual aid, and defense. Whatever that looks like for you in your area. Your mileage may vary. This is not legal advice.
- So which hashtag would you use to end slavery?
  
  Let's turn it around.
  I say violence won't work.
  Please explain in detail how you see the conflict going. I mean, I'm certain that the same people who couldn't get past the DNC to get Bernie nominated will have no problem facing off against "military contractors" hired by the billionaire class.
  Details, please.
- Everything is Russia's fault, got it.

Well if an ICE officer stops my husband based on his appearance we’ve both agreed that we should resist that arrest.
That would end in violence and probably our deaths. What else can we do? Let them take us god knows where?
- And after all that training we've had to never let kidnappers take you to a secondary location! There really isn't another choice.

This reflects a feeling of being backed into a corner. What else are we going to do when our political views and goals and ffs human beings are being criminalized? Every decent thing getting rolled back and every horrible thing dialed up to 11. Fuck republicans. One way or another they will regret this. Whether people vote them out or get violent with them remains to be seen but this will not last, obviously.
- I can't wait until the day that these filth learn that we outnumber them 10 to 1.
  It's up to them how they learn this fact.
  
  Sounds delusional to me.. if we outnumber them 10 to 1 why the fuck is a republican sitting on the highest seat in the country? Everyone just sat out the vote??? Okay. Then what the fuck do you expect them to do to republicans if they can’t even vote?
  
  I'm terrified of it.
  I've talked to relatives on both sides of my family who have experience those times and they have nothing good to say about it.
  My grandmother went from hoping the Nazis would ignore her, to hoping the American bombs would miss her, to hoping that the Russian soldiers wouldn't rape her.
  My grandfather had guys from both the KMT and the CPC point guns at his head to try to get him to join (on separate occasions) and ended up a refugee.
  Both China and Austria are doing very nicely now but boy did it suck getting there.
  
  They aren't afraid. They have the Department of War, and ICE to protect them and their property.
  
  Numbers alone are meaningless.

Historically, it has always taken violence to remove fascists from power.
- The problem with all of this is that the right is literally saying this exact same thing.
  We dismiss it because it's ludicrous, because they HAVE all the power, their guy IS the deep state that controls everything, but our media world has fashioned a narrative for our stupidest segment that they're the oppressed underdogs.
  Meaning, no matter what happens, even if we get our best outcome and drag this administration onto the White House lawn, we still have to live next to millions and millions of people who think we've been planning to do that to them for decades now.
  There is no good solution that doesn't involve some kind of new leadership that needs to be built from the ground up and will likely take generations to nurture and develop.
  
  we still have to live next to millions and millions of people who think we’ve been planning to do that to them for decades now.
  They already believe that. There's no point in asking your oppressor if they are uncomfortable with you getting oppressed. Just ask any school bully.
  
  So what though? If it gets to the point of having to violently overview the government, we're past the point of precedent. We can just use their beloved AI to scrub social media profiles and purge them from the voting registry. Sure they'll believe that was the plan all along, but we'd have a few decades where the scales were tipped so far in our favor that their children and grandchildren could be properly educated without all the revisionist bullshit.
- Not always. The Portuguese carnation revolution happened without violence. Spain democratised right after Franco's death.
  
  So violence, military coup or heart failure?
  
  How can you say "Spain democratized after francos death" as if the entire bloody Spanish Civil War didn't happen?
  By that same logic it seems that Germany also overcame fascism peacefully, because Germany democratized right after Hitlers death.
- Facebook clowns laughed at me when I said that you can vote in fascism, but you have to shoot your way out.

This is just people waking up to reality. Trump has the White House, the senate, the House of Representatives, and the courts. He controls the military and has already begun deployment to "democratic" cities. His buddy in Texas is redistricting to help him consolidate power, and I am sure Abbot is not the only one. Every move Trump makes is designed to cripple opposition to his regime. Republican states are purging voter rolls and enacting bullshit laws designed to disenfranchise people of colour.
Milquetoast democrats have made only the most pathetic gestures of opposition to Trump. The first genuine thing Trump ever said was when he expressed surprise yesterday at how little resistance he has faced from the left. Republicans were right about one thing: the American left is a bunch of pussies.
If more Americans think political violence is the only way out of the mess Americans made, it's probably because they are starting to develop a vague but accurate understanding of what is happening in their country.
- Perhaps the Democratic Socialists (DS) can become the unifying source of resistance. They are the ones fighting, but there are too few to have political impact.
  It's up to the citizens to back them, and the DS must drum up the leaders and present them so citizens can choose them.
  I think the DS values are the closest to the new deal approach that made America a wildly successful nation and beacon for just treatment of humans.
  Heck, Europe and Japan took their governing cues from America during the Marshall plan. They are examples of following the ideals our leaders used to value. This is the real "make america great again".
  
  This is my fondest wish. I think many Americans are ready to rally around someone mounting a serious opposition to Trump, but no one has stepped up so far. I love Bernie and i believe he is important to the movement, but they need a young, charismatic, inspiring leader to start getting very loud about the real situation in the US. It will be an uphill battle because the media have been captured by people either cowed by or sympathetic to Trump. Maybe Lemmy can be the platform for DS in the states. Legacy media has failed (with maybe 1-2 exceptions).
  
  I had a lib tell me the other day that democratic socialists are actually a secret SpecOp branch of the Tea Party tasked with infiltrating the dem party and undermining the efforts of patriots like Jeffries and Schumer, and that it is a blatant lie and MAGA propaganda that countries left of US dems exist and are functional. Europe has apparently been a warzone since WWII because they're taken over by socialist terror organizations. I was then blocked for linking to the Wikipedia article for Democratic Socialism.
  I think breaking the blue tribe propaganda is going to be one hell of an uphill battle, unfortunately. A lot of dems align on policies with leftists, at least socially, but once you use the trigger words, their programming activates and freak the fuck out and call you a MAGA plant despite all evidence to the contrary.
- The gerrymandering in federal elections is something that amazes me since decades ago. I understand it when it was created. But today? When you can count all ballots in a few hours? I get the divisions when you have to vote for the Senate or your district, but in a federal election you are only voting for one person. Count all the ballots, find the one with the most ballots and name that person president. It's not that hard.

Well it's true. You can't be diplomatic with fascists. You can't "get on the same level" with billionaires.
They have no reason to listen or care, unless we give them a reason to listen or care.
- And no matter what, all violence is somehow leftist violence. Trump in his speech to the generals said that they need to deploy against 'animals' who fire at firefighters climbing ladders to save people. At first I was incredulous, but then I saw a comment that pointed out that not too long ago a Trump supporter really did fire at firefighters doing their jobs (and climbing ladders). Not only that, but he was the one who started the fire in the first place to bait them.
  Yet it is our fault somehow...

You can't vote your way out of fascism. Trump already launched an insurrection to hold on to power. He won't let it go now that he's better entrenched.
- I suppose we'll give it a try in a year. I do think leftists, including myself, should admit and prepare that they might need to violently resist The State tho.

Violence is how we beat the Nazis the first time. If there's a cleaner option that's actually feasible, then yes please... but failing that, cutting the head off the snake is a pretty tried and true method. And if it grows back, cut that one off too - they'll get the message eventually.
- Exactly. Ultimately these people don't actually believe in anything other than power. Their arguments are in bad faith. Any compromise is just a temporary weigh station as they prepare to push even harder.
  How did compromising with the right work for abortion? Parental consent laws became onerous clinical regulations became bans on performing procedures became making getting an abortion legally murder. How did compromising on trans rights go? A few "reasonable concerns" about girl's sports became blanket bans on sports became bans on life-saving care for minors became restrictions on basic ID documents became attempts to criminalize the very existence of trans people. This isn't slippery slope conjecture; it's directly observed history.
  The simple awful truth is that we have fundamentally incompatible visions of the world. They see The Handmaid's Tail as an ideal to aim for. They think the literal God of the universe wants them to create this nightmare. And with God at their backs, they can justify any evil to create their warped utopia. Any action can be justified. Any lie can be excused. Any suffering by any number of people now can be balanced against the perfect lives they imagine we'll all live once they force us all into their dream world. The worst thing about them, is that they actually think they're the good guys.
  This is the fundamental problem. Their vision of an Earthly paradise is our vision of Hell on Earth. We have fundamentally different visions for the future. They cannot convince the majority of the population to willingly create their vision. So they have to resort to violence, disenfranchisement, propaganda, and fraud. (All justified for the greater good.) And ultimately we're going to have to use every tactic they use and more if we want to keep these monsters from turning our nation into Gilead.

"Those who make peaceful reform impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

violence is already happening, it's just that people are too scared to fight back against it
- not only that people not close to areas of violence are still too content, because they have thier creature comforts with them.

The country went off-track when Reconstruction was defeated by white terrorism and the old slaveocracy retook their wealth and power. We've been struggling with the aftermath since then.

Is killing people that are openly declaring that they want to kill you even "political violence"? I would say it is not, because at that point you are not going after them because of their affiliation with any political party, but because they are trying to kill you.

On track to what ..for fuck sakes?
- Reclaiming what has been stolen from the working class since Reagan.
- Right? Supply side christofascism? A final coup d’etat? Splitting the country? Even the democrats are more than a little sus with their corporate allegiance, so exactly who is going to be the preferable leadership?
- Half the country wants to take the express route to fascism. I don't know if we can even fix things at this point.
  
  1/4 to 1/3 of the country are traitors.
  Remember, the last election was not legitimate.
- Healthcare, housing, hope
  
  And you think violence will get that?
- That is right. "Which track" is always the needed followup question.
  Edit: Oh, actually great quote from article.
  The belief that violence may be the answer has grown among Republicans and independents – up 3 and 7 percentage points, respectively, since April last year. But the largest increase has been among Democrats. Now 28% of Democrats share that view, up 16 points.

This is exactly how it's being orchestrated. Pit the people against each other so the politicians and wealthy can get away with literal murder.
We are being governed by the "Epstein Elite", literal pedophiles and sex traffickers and the idiots that kneel to them.
- culture wars crap= aka, anti-wokeness, antivaxx, anti-trans.
  not class wars=billionaires vs the not .01%

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- I hate that I agree with this.
  Humans can be so much more than violent cavemen, but we aren't there quite yet.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x7FGbW3IVc
- That's part of why I'm neither a patriot nor a tyrant.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
- Suprisingly, both of them are on the same side of the barricade.
  
  magats are not patriots.
  Patriots love their country and criticize it when its wrong.
  Nationalists create a fantasy narrative of what their concept of a "country" is, and think that's the best thing in the world.
  I probably fit into the category of "patriot", I love the multiculturalism of the US, I love the progress that has been made on Civil Rights and the protection of people with disabilities and recognition of the rights of LGBT+ people, I love the constitution (well... some parts need to be tweaked), the 1st and 2nd amendments, separation of powers, the idea that "American" is not a race, but an ideal; And I do recognize that the history is dark and those dark history should be taught so we can prevent those from happening, and I do NOT support this administration's blatant violation of the constitution and anyone involved should be thrown in jail.
  These "nationalists" don't even love the country, they do not support freedom, they are traitors, and should be dealt with accordingly.
  
  Depends on how you define "patriot". If it is strictly nationalism, then yeah. If you define "patriot" as someone who loves, in this context, democracy and human dignity, then I would disagree.
  
  Those are nationalists, not patriots. They love tyrants.

PBS running these insipid polls lately is so fucking offensive.
Americans are already doing violence on Americans to execute their fascist vision of this country, en masse, within and without institutions. Violent change is here. The violence question is over. Public opinion is for TV.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
Thomas Jefferson, President of the United States, c. 1787
Not that I think political violence (or violence of any sort, for that matter) should be our first, second, or even thirty-fifth resort, but at a certain point I think one must come to grips with the fact that - whether it fits in with their delicate sensibilities or not - when confronted with an existential peril it does sometimes become necessary to defend oneself. (Fun fact: This is why self-defense can be presented as a valid defense against murder charges!)
Sure, we should absolutely make any and all attempts to be inclusive (Republicans HATE this!) and tolerant (GOP: hiss IT BURNS!) and attempt to reach solutions through education, research, negotiation, compromise and all that lovely (woke?) stuff, but... For some reason, it seems like there's consistently only one side that ever shows up to the table willing to actually do any of that. And that's just how it's been for fucking DECADES now. There's probably a lot of you (just generally speaking, not necessarily meaning Lemmy's demographic per se) who aren't even old enough to remember a time before the GOP began using "government shutdowns" and "debt ceilings" and "literal fucking coup attempts" as part of their standard, day-to-day politicking. Believe it or not (and I know this will probably be the hardest one to buy, but I swear it to be true) there was a time when the Republicans would - even if they WERE NOT in power at the time - STILL SHOW UP AND DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS. I know, what a concept, eh? Imagine going to work every day and just... doing your job, like a fucking idiot, instead of throwing absolute meltdown tantrums over your lack of control over other people's genitals.
Does any of this strike you as the behavior of (an) entity(ies) engaging in anything even remotely resembling something that could be construed as "good-faith negotiation" - let alone even approaching something as audacious as "compromise?" This isn't a willing, eager party to an arbitration, quite, is it? No... Something more akin to an assailant with a knife at our throat(s) demanding to inspect our genitals to make sure we're where they think we should be at the moment certainly sounds more apt to me...
I don't want there to be violence. Any. At all, really. But at what point does the moral imperative toward nonviolence get outweighed by the moral obligation to the people being kidnapped by masked (supposed) government agents and disappeared to very real, literal concentration camps? How many genocides at once do we need to hit the tipping point where it's finally acceptable to stand up and say, "That's enough. This far. No farther." But actually back that up, for a change.
If that means by force, then unfortunately, so be it. Might doesn't make right, but that certainly doesn't preclude it from enforcing it, does it?
- He who saves his country violates no laws.
  -Donald J Trump
  He defined the ROE in January of 2021.
- Well, editorially, I suggest you break up those paragraphs into smaller ones, and maybe add some headings for a "wall of text" like that, but you make well thought out arguments and I totally agree.
  When it becomes clear that the citizens no longer have a controlling voice in choosing who leads us, that is when revolution is a valid choice.
  BTW, I'm one who is old enough to remember (like Pepperidge Farm - there, proof I'm old enough)
  
  Ugh, I know it's a mess as far as the nuts and bolts go at a minimum (and we'll not get into any inherent flaws in my reasoning, thank you very much lol) but in my defense I had just recently woken up and was in dire need of chemical assistance, and I honestly didn't even think I'd gone on like I did but I was fired up! lol

1775: Breaking News, there's a growing number of colonists who think violence is necessary...
- if this comes to violence, I will be slaughtered. not because I plan to fight, but because trans people have been so thoroughly villianized by the Right. I won't hurt a soul, but I expect to be hurt.
  violence would be a catastrophe.
  
  All transgender medical therapy is being made illegal. That's violence. Another step up the genocide ladder.
  
  It’s already happening. If I was trans I would be looking to flee the country ASAP. I wouldn’t even trust blue states to protect me.
  
  its a step closer to controlling women in general, its the endgame. because most transphobia has been happening to transgendered women, more than men who FTM. Also it creates another problem, by mislabeling non-transgedered women as well, i knew a family member that was misgendered by a demographic other than caucasians that specifically is wierdly obsessed with them.

John Brown was right.

Depending on how the question was worded Im willing to bet a large portion of those means violence against the lunatic leftists.
- I could wish really really hard that you're wrong, but you're not.
- I mean, I'm for it. Just waiting for the green light when it's ok to punch a Nazi and be considered a patriot and not a criminal...
  Be clear, I believe in peace first. But when peace and negotiation is no longer an option, your hand is forced until peace and negotiation is an option.
  Think of it like this. Bully attacks you, you ask them to stop and they don't. One day you decide to put the bully in an wrist lock! Bully is now screaming in pain. Bully now agrees to stop attacking you. Peace has been restored.
  
  there will be no green light. one side will be legitimized as lawful agents or paramilitaries, every excess of force overlooked, and our side will be considered criminals and terrorists, even in self-defense.
  if it comes to violence it will be more like the Troubles than the Civil War.

I don't think getting it on track requires or will even be helped by violence
I firmly believe, however, that many powerful people will violently resist the re-tracking
- This is an amazing nuance I think may be lost on many.

Fundamentally, elections were designed to be a peaceful alternative to the peasantry revolting against the government and beheading their king. As Americans come to grip with the reality that their elections are meaningless, their politicians are bought and their only alternative to fascism is fascism-lite with a pride pin (no trans ppl allowed though) this attitude will continue to fester.

I have become worried I’ll need to defend myself against violent republicans because they are always talking about and actively hurting others.
- Your concern is valid. "Worry" is a useless activity. Prepare.
  They might not explicitly call themselves republicans. They might be implicitly or explicitly backed by The State. But there is a growing number of people with weapons and unmasked hate for othered humans.
- I know so many that wouldn't throw the first punch but are eager to join a dog pile.

define back on track
- Not fascism?
  
  you mean covert fascism. many of the elements were there, it's just out in the open now.
  
  That's your interpretation, but this could also be an indicator of fascists becoming more violent. Which is terrifying.

Soap box, ballot box, ammo box. They're trying to take away the 1st 2, so...
- Your point is valid, but you forgot "jury box": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty
  
  Well we tried that too and the pussy ass judge gave 0 days in jail so.

Pick up a history book.
Fascists don't allow fair elections.
Fascists don't stop when asked politely.
Unfortunately, that 30% is correct.
Arm yourselves and everyone you know. Form networks. Communicate via encrypted messaging apps.

As always, Republicans lead the pack, with more Republicans supporting political violence than Democrats. The scary part is how much the Democrat statistics have gone up, and the fact they're getting close to the levels of support seen in Republicans
America is fucked up. I don't have a solution, just pointing out the sad state of affairs
- Things always go to shit when the wealth divide gets too big. People and companies shouldnt be big enough to own the government. The last time this happened was the guilded age in the 20s which led to the crash. who knows where this one will lead.
- The scary part is how much the Democrat statistics have gone up, and the fact they're getting close to the levels of support seen in Republicans
  Scary would be the Democrats continuing to stick their head in the sand
- You mean Dems finally realize the threat? I hope you realize how silly you sound when put into historical context. "Well obviously those crazy Nazis are talking about violence, they're always talking about violence. What REALLY concerns me is all the non-Nazis bordering Germany that are talking about arming up in case the Nazis decide to attack!" Yeah, the state of things sucks, but it's not the people going "oh shit, these psychos want to slaughter us and they currently have most of the weapons, maybe I should have the ability to defend myself" that are the problem

Unfortunately that appears to be the only way to get rid of them. They continually ignore the established laws and protests and " sternly worded emails/letters/phonecalls.

The Rest of The World: “duh!”

Haha, it'll never happen.
Most are too complacent, comfortable, and mollycoddled to do anything. They'll just try to wait it out and hope that it'll change at the next election ...not realising that if there is a next election that it'll probably be rigged, to quote the orange child rapist himself "you'll never need to vote again, we've got it sorted".
The daft thing is you don't need to have a massive civil war to end this bullshit. You just need some backbone and to target the orange paedo from all directions and not let him have any time or space to do his evil shit. Then once he's out, or dead from the inevitable stress induced heart attack, go after his cronies. He's the biggest manbaby that's ever lived, use it against him.

You can't argue nazis out of your government. Churchill didn't convince Hitler to back out of Poland over a friendly cuppa.

That’s just people who admit it out loud. I know a few people who hint at this too but are afraid to say it out loud, especially if they have an Alexa-type device.
- My FBI agent when I speak directly into the Google Home device that I am going to fight back against fascism:
  
  Lol. His photo will never not be hilarious.
  
  Whoah his eyes follow you around the room!

doing infrequent protests hasnt helped one bit especially if not large numbers like other countries do it, if the enemy knows you arnt going for thier HEADS, they will just laugh and move on.
also people are unwilling to boycott/generally strike, because they sitll have thier creature comforts, plus all the propaganda against protesters in general, i think the staged eco-protests(the ones that defaced public things, were funded by the oil/gas industry) over the years was just testing the waters.

I’ve always been happy to be Canadian, but the current state of things in the US… I mean, we’ve got our problems, but god damn. My friends aren’t in danger of being disappeared by government agents because they’re not pale white.
- I'm Canadian too, but I'm also getting sick of fascists and wouldn't mind punching a few in the face. These people are disgusting and only understand violence, seems like.
- Yet... Canada is only a few steps behind

Guns do not protect you from Fox News.
I disagree with Lemmy (and the growing public sentiment), but for the opposite extreme reason: we are beyond violence changing things. This is a propaganda/reality war, and truth doesn’t really matter.
- There are only two things that counter propaganda.
  Extreme direct violence. Since by necessity propaganda requires you to be at least 1 stepped remove from physical interaction.
  Or long term mass and mandatory education and social freedom.
  The second one isn't viable at the moment so...

There is no historical precedent for an electoral solution to a descent into fascism.
There is no historical precedent for an electoral solution to massive wealth inequality.

The government said pacifism is naive and dangerous

The justice system, from the government perspective, is primarily a guard against vigilantism. Once enough people lose faith in the justice system's ability to enforce the law with at least some degree of honesty and fairness, then the only option people see is to take justice into their own hands.
- And when you have meetings. Arrange them in coded language and have everyone leave their phones and smartwatches at home before they go.

It's worked to found the nation and gain independence. It worked to ensure slavery ended. It worked in both world wars. Americans have no problem using it in every single country in Latin America and the middle east. What's good for the goose...

Just an observation.
Things have been looking for a while like its going to be a Provoked Insurgency
what I mean is that when you have all three levels of the federal government, and you start attacking people. like actually attacking not just mouthing off to the microphones. you put your victims into a situation where they have no choice but to actually use violence and fight back, because doing nothing is a death sentence.
if the rhetoric stays firmly on the Paranoid Delusion Mouth Breathing Talking in Tongues Ultra MAGA level. thats where we're gonna go. People talk about Civil war all the time and get hyped... but what are you gonna do when you GET Civil War? removed that the internet is out and then starve to death?
- I've kinda been predicting this since his first term, worst case scenario (and at this point increasingly more likely) would be a Syrian civil war style destabilization from within. Fractured and splintered into a number of militias fighting locally for their perceived community/religious sect/ethnicity against a much better equipped state military that can't cope with the scale of things. Retaliation and backlash against other groups, within and outside of said community, extrajudicial and casual killings, etc.
  In other words, a nightmare. This country is just so damn big and full of so many different kinds of people and ideas
  Edit bc I just remembered: FUN FACT, at my last job there was a customer I was real cool with, helped him build a Baja 5.0 Ranger. Dude was a Brazilian DACA dreamer who was a diehard trump supporter along with his family, who made it very clear his naturalization was on HIM and they wouldn't help (they had gotten their citizenship). Very conservative, probably big bolsonaro fans.
  He was one of the few trump guys actually interested in what some stupid leftie in a red state had to say, and actually heard me out on this ^ theory. I wonder where he is now.
  
  I wonder where he is now.
  Probably in El Salvador.

Ohh no, the people have an increasingly hard time to buy the propaganda that keeps them docile and compliant?
Nobody, absolutely nobody could have seen that coming. The democracy looked so healthy just a year ago. /s

America, you have the right to bear arms for a reason.
- Yeah, so we could quickly assemble an army without having to maintain a standing army. Spelled out extremely clearly in the second amendment.

The Handmaid’s Tale is really happening.

I mean kicking Trump to the crib isn’t that difficult….. let’s do that and the rest of us 300+ million people can move on and have a drink.
- I agree it was easy, when we had a chance to actually enforce our laws and constitution. Leadership failed to do that, and now all the leaders who had the power to do something are replaced with lackeys.
  Easy is no longer on the table.

Nearly a third of Americans – 30% – say people may have to resort to violence in order to get the country back on track,
Did the survey question specify what "the right track" is?
Because MAGA has a very different definition than progressives do.
- Maga opinions should be disqualified for being goddamn stupid. They can go live life by their bullshit rules
- It's alright we don't have to listen to a word they say. They're not American anymore, they're traitor magats.
  
  They control all 3 branches of government and basically every local PD and Sheriff's department.
  So don't listen, but be prepared to not listen as they're screaming in your ear.

It’s happening….

Peaceful general strikes would be a better first option imho

I mean it's just a poll, but: what kind of violence? Hopefully organised? And what does "back on track" mean anyhow? The past years have shown us that the problem is systemic. Going back means the option for the next asshole to do the same is still there.

Wait... The country full of gun nuts would think that? I'm flabbergasted

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