Lemmy might, MIGHT have a small bias towards the left

Within the context of one person's career, socialism on its own can do quite a bit to transform people's relationship to their workplace. No longer would your job be at risk because you've all done too well and it's to "cut labor costs" while profits soar. No longer would you be worried about automating away your job, instead you'd gladly automate your job away and then the whole organization could lower how much work needs to be done as things get more and more automated.

Democracy would massively improve work-life balance.

Of course this comes with problems, all of which exist in capitalism (how do we care for people outside of these organizations who won't have access to work, for example). But if I had to choose between market socialism and capitalism, the choice is pretty clear, and it's something much easier for liberals to stomach.

Not saying I'm in favor of it, but there's still market socialism out there as a political stance

The idea of centrally planned economy ignores the lessons of the past. Bronze Age empires and recent examples all display universal inability to adjust to changes.

It’s the same magical thinking as the blind belief in market forces exhibits.
Priests of “invisible hand of market” ignore information exchange speed limits and market inertia, believing that markets will just magically fix everything in time for it to matter.
Preachers of central planning ignore information exchange speed limits and market inertia (and yes, there is a market, as long as there is goods and services exchange, however indirect) by believing they will have all the relevant information and the capacity to process it in time for it to matter.

Neither is true. Neither school of thought even attempted to show itself to be true.

I think the better way would be a centrally planned economy for some goods (electricity, "normal" food, health, ...) and something more "free" for the rest of the market. Bread has a marked price but a PS5 doesn't.

Cool, what is your preferred replacement and does everyone in this thread agree? You have managed to continue criticism but not offer a replacement yet again.

I, a socialist don't. I think however they should be tightly regulated. And kept away from basic necessitys.

Markets have proven time and again to only serve oligarchs, or create oligarchs to serve. When left to their own wont. If we can choose to participate or not in the markets. Then there is no issue with markets. When we're slaves to the markets as we currently are however. No one is free.

So, you would never trade with someone else something you have for something they have? You want to be entirely self sufficient?

If this isn't true, why do think markets serve no purpose?

I trust my average coworker much more than the average CEO.

Most of my coworkers can barely make it through their own tasks without fucking something up

This is a problem with the company you work for, not your coworkers. I'm sure if they were paid more, were given more agency, and received better training, they'd be better elployees

Most of my coworkers can barely make it through their own tasks

I guess you haven't met many CEOs, then.

You must need a better job. I've had plenty of workplaces where I could count on everyone around me.

You know, the hiring manager usually has something to do with the quality of people hired. Maybe you could talk to them instead?

if you dont raise your children to be adults, they won't act like adults when they grow up. A revolution would mean people learning entirely new skills, like making decisions in the workplace. Most workers have no agency, theyre treated like machines, so I dont expect people raised in that society to know how to run a completely different one from scratch. Revolution is a process, it has to be built. Keep shitting on your coworkers tho, im sure its a productive activity

Most of my coworkers can barely make it through their own tasks without fucking something up, let alone actually having input on how the business is run.

Your coworkers aren't incompetent. Your coworkers are just half-assing at work because they correctly realize they're not going to get paid more if they actually tried.

Some of the workers may be managerial. But the managerial workers don't own a disproportionate amount of the company, and they're not considered the "superior" of any other workers.

Didn't say they run it. The person who runs it can be simply another employee. It's just there are no outside investors and everyone has a vote on the board. You put someone in charge you trust but everyone as a whole has a say in big picture stuff with the person at the top being day to day and being held accountable to employees and not investors.

Capitalism fundamentally changes the relationship between workers and their work. One takes the value they create and gives it to someone else. One doesn't.

ඞ

@lightnsfw @dingus
You really think the people currently running your company are any different from those other coworkers?

You must be a joy to work with.

Every single job I've had was made worse by management. Not just worse for us, but worse for customers/clients as well. I have zero faith in management, I have complete faith in the people actually working on the floor knowing what would be best to do on the floor.

Now you ask about "not making it fail immediately" which to me gives me an impression of thinking it is still a business that needs to be grown.
I imagine a lot of shop floors would agree their time and resources were better spent elsewhere. No one needs Funko pops, I don't doubt those workers would find something better to do

Serious question. Is it possible to do this with very large populations? It seems like it might get inherently more complicated with several tiers of government (federal, state, county, city, etc...)

Bold assumption that it'd take that long

you mean for example germanys separated power of the legislative, executive and judicative powers? yeah, that works out pretty shit.

Hey,… blocking “is” disabled.

They (the trolling kind) definitely had a system going on Reddit, they haven’t figured it out yet here though.

On reddit, they whined until the mods started protecting them and every "civility" rule became a "don't sass the nazis" rule.

Hopefully lemmy's mods are better than that.

That’s the problem with this website. It’s full of morons that call anyone that’s to the right of Marx either a conservative or a fascist, never mind the fact that a lot of them defend the fascist invasion of Ukraine.

Fact is, the only system that actually improved the lives of the majority of people when put into practice was the free market social democracy that used to exist in the west before the rise of neoliberalism. But that’s too complex for these simpletons, who can’t comprehend the fact that public ownership can exist alongside private enterprise competing in a market kept free by government regulation. So they just keep shouting about the means of production and hope something will happen.

I am on hexbear because I like the memes. I consider myself a centrist, but I do agree with their general stance of a revolution that leads to the abolition of private property, there should be a dictatorship of the proletariat, and the complete dedication to elevating our marginalized comrades. I just try not to get political there, and it's fine really.

Everyone left of me is red fascist and everyone right of me is normal fascist

I mailed him my dog, but he says he hasn't received it and that's why I can't have it back

me too man fr fr

Same! Absolute liberals!

if supporting a project that lifts 800M out of extreme poverty is wrong, I don't wanna be right

All governments are authoritiarian. They have the authority to tax you and can do that cuz they have a monopoly on violence. But if you have "HUMAN RIGHTS" written on a piece of paper in your capital building that basically makes you a democracy, right?

Define 'Authoritarian'

It's CPC you sound like a yokel

Liberalism is bad, hope that helps clarify

I thought this exact thing, but the more I learned about them, it turned out to really not be true. While there is a kind of meme culture there of asking Xi to nuke the town they're currently residing in, and pointing out all of the white supremacist symbols used by the Ukraine's army or whatever, there is a deeper context for it.

They don't necessarily support every move these people make and particularly in regards to Putin there is a lot of criticism towards his social stances.

They're more looking at this through the lens of what a nato conflict is causing in terms of a more multi-polar world and also Russia turning away from the neoliberalism that has dominated it since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Not saying you have to agree with it. I'm more of a centrist myself, but it's really not fair to say this as a blanket statement with no context.

Show me the apologia.
Edit: incredible how asking libs for any proof is like a magic spell to make them disappear

Authoritarian bootlicking isn't liberalism.

It's the core of liberalism.

the leftism understander has logged on

(cause they call everything they don’t like “fascist”)

Maybe you don't understand what fascism is.

Or maybe you do, and you're a supporter of it.

I believe the comrade is making a joke about our politics. Not everything we don't like is fascism, some of it is liberalism. But of course, we all know what bleeds when a liberal gets scratched.

Haven't liberals been the ones calling us fascists ever since we federated?

This is essentially what I used to think as well, until I spent more time there. There's some stock phrases busted out, and some users probably leave it at that and don't engage beyond it. However, they genuinely have a deeper framework for an analysis of the world than what you're going to see from conservatives.

Basically as part of their extremely liberal ideology, they analyze things through a materialist lens, even the non-marxist liberals there, and through that there is a lot of seeking out of what material causes and contradictions have lead to where we are which can be really neat.

There is probably some disagreement over what is fascist, what's not, blah blah. But it's really not as simple as "what I don't like is fascism".

Eh, it's a lot like reddit.

Two thirds of the rabid ones here are keyboard socialists. They type a good game, know all the stock phrases, but when it comes to actually doing shit, well, touching grass is scary.

They stay inside and rant and rave about how things SHOULD be while we are out there actually making the incremental changes to try to bring it about.

Then they post and pat themselves on the back for saying we're not doing enough.

It's very clear that this is every bit the senseless, thoughtless, reactionary, pathetic echo chamber that t_d was, just with red flags instead of red hats.

Thank you all for helping me to realize that so quickly.

Did you know we throw away more food than it would take to feed the hungry? That there are more empty homes than homeless people? Capitalism incentivizes scarcity, so it is artificially created. The only thing stopping us from achieving post scarcity immediately is working out the logistics, but those in power don't want that to happen, as they are currently high up in society.

People are always going to have vision problems, so it's wrong to wear glasses.

Class should absolutely be something we strive to abolish. The idea that some people deserve to benefit disproportionally from the workings of our society is nonsense.

I want a middle class so strong everyone is in it. In fact let’s get rid of the upper and lower classes

Class will always exist

A good reminder that liberalism is based around unfounded assumptions and charlatan, unimaginative predictions of the future. Everyone used to think kings were inevitable, too.

.ml domains were "free" until recently, so many used them for their small scale projects. I did as well.