3d ago

Don't worry, it's definitely not genocide, China is just being a little 'authoritarian' towards the Uyghurs

The Democratic People's Republic of Tankiejerk @lemmy.world

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It's only genocide if its from the Völkermord region in Germany. Otherwise it's just sparkling mass murder.
- The sheer volume of actual Germans on Lemmy that believe this statement and will argue about it is shocking.
  
  Some weird guilt complex that still lingers on even though that generation will soon wither and die.

It's not true, you're CIA, and even if it was true it would be a good thing.
You're CIA.
(/s obviously)
(You're CIA)
- He's CIA, I backtracked his IP address.
  Consequences will never be the same
  
  Well, I got the reference at least...

A year or so ago, the new UK government sent a delegation to China to improve relations and shore up trade and investment deals, ignoring criticism from the left about Uyghur genocide
This is what the Tankies get fundamentally wrong about the modern world - the idea that anything anti-China is a smear to further Western Imperialism is a throwback to the cold war dichotomy of The West vs Communism.
In reality now, it's all about investment and global trade, neoliberal wealth generation over human rights. Of course propaganda is real and everywhere, but the framing of it all as West vs East is just incredibly outdated and oversimplified.
Downplaying or waving away mistreatment of the Uyghurs puts you on the same side as Western Governments, so dismissing the issue as Western Propaganda is fundamentally flawed
- Fucking thank you. I see people railing against imperialism by describing the world through an entirely imperialistic mindset. They are so lost in the sauce they can't see straight.
- Yeah, people heard their grandpa say racist/straight propaganda against a country they know in the modern day as useful and decide to go overboard protecting it as if every negative statement cant be trusted.
  Its definitely not the same world anymore and protecting bad behavior of human treatment behind past victimhood does nothing to help. It just excuses away one more abuser who is trying to make a buck.

The meme checks out: https://www.ceicdata.com/en/china/population-birth-rate-by-region/cn-population-birth-rate-xinjiang . Birth rate was 1.588 in 2017 and at a similar level in the years before that, 1.069 in 2018, 0.814 in 2019 and so on.
Extra surveillance and repression reportedly started in 2014, mass incarceration in 2017.
- Idk, if you educate women the fertility rate usually drops, so it stands to reason if you reeducate them it'd drop even further...
  
  So they just built a lof of universities and accepted women free of charge. So generous! We should follow their example.
  
  Not that quickly.
  
  Dark.
- If you browse other regions of China there, in some (mainly the ones whose names I didn't recognize which I expect are the most provincial hence why I've never heard of them), you will find a fall in birth-rates from aproximatelly the same values to the same values (i.e. around 1.4 to around 0.6, for example https://www.ceicdata.com/en/china/population-birth-rate-by-region/cn-population-birth-rate-jiangxi and https://www.ceicdata.com/en/china/population-birth-rate-by-region/cn-population-birth-rate-shaanxi) but none but Xinjiang have that steep drop in 2017.
  Something happenned in Xinjiang at around 2017 and for at least a couple of years that did not happen in the other regions of China.
  We can't really deduce anything about what's still happenning there, either way, from that graphic.
  EDIT: There is a response to this post where a link is provided to a report by a Think Tank created by and openly funded by the Australian Government (as shown right there: https://www.aspi.org.au/about-us/, second paragraph). The post were I pointed out that such a source has a conflict of interest, hence that report can't just be outright trusted, has been moderated away as "misinformation" even though my claim is proven by their own website. Feel free to draw your own conclusions as to why such a comment was removed by a moderation action backed by a false justification (as the page above proves), especially in light of the specific subject we're talking about here.
  
  There was also per county data available, showing a correlation between the size of the decline and the ethnic makeup of the county: "The largest declines have been in counties where Uyghurs and other indigenous communities are concentrated. Across counties that are majority-indigenous the birth-rate fell, on average, by 43.7 percent in a single year between 2017 and 2018. The birth-rate in counties with a 90 percent or greater indigenous population declined by 56.5 percent, on average, in that same year." https://www.aspi.org.au/report/family-deplanning-birthrates-xinjiang/

Stop being racist against the Chinese you AmeriKKKan fascistic nazi! Go and read theory! /s
- Pretty sure if I criticized the CCP, the wumaos will call me a "汉奸" ("han traitor") despite me not having PRC Citizenship anymore (and I didn't even renounce it, they were the ones that revoked it 🤷‍♂️)
  
  It's a pretty widely accepted fact that no matter your citizenship, the party will always consider you Chinese ¯(ツ)_/¯
  Out of curiosity, do you know where the phenomenon of Chinese people, outside china, referring to locals as ”外国人“ stems from？I've found this fascinating as in english you refer to yourself as a foreigner when you are in another country, not the locals.
  Is this just a language thing, or is this also influenced by the mindset brought on by heavier nationalism (than I'm used to, anyway, in Australia), in your opinion?

This is a country that had a one child policy for the ethnic in group. But to do this in secret betrays intention.

Lmao at CCP apologists here. Just cut the noise of "he said, she said"-type of denunciation of sources because it's "Western" and use Occam's razor on this. Most people don't want to be bothered and to just get on with their lives. If the Uyghurs are indeed not being genocided, hundreds if not thousands of them would not bother to protest. Because if they aren't, they would prefer to simply get on with their own lives. There are too many complaints not to ignore if there is no genocide happening. If there's smoke, there's fire.
- There's millions of complains about the covid vaccine causing seizures to autism to magnetism, it doesn't mean covid vaccines are dangerous, it means you have to examine the selection method.
  I've been to Urumqi, my takeaway was that I didnt have enough knowledge to understand their situation, and random people who haven't been within 1000 miles of this place understand even less.
  
  There's [millions of complains about the covid vaccine causing seizures to autism to magnetism]
  Isn't this a vain and pathetic attempt to throw a red herring, comparing genocide to fake vaccine side effects like magnetism. Where are the millions of complaints you mentioned about vaccines from the website you linked, which is notoriously being doctored (pun intended) by the unqualified, antivaxxer NHS head Robert Kennedy?
  Most people don't complain if they are not being inconvenienced. That's the point of complaining. Even Tibetans are not complaining about genocide despite the politics, because they're not being subjected to the same treatment that Uyghurs are being subjected to.
  Of course you won't see much about Urumqi, because you haven't been to any of the "reeducation camps". And people who are not in camps would not dare speak about their true feelings.

I would love to see the Chinese version of The Simpson’s (dubbed in English)
Their attempt at The Colbert Report was… special. ❤️

Lmao

Is there truly nowhere else in the world where a severe drop in birthrates is happening? Is it truly only happening in China?
- The fastest we know of, and during a campaign where there are widespread reports of suppression of the local ethnicity, including forced sterilizations
  
  So the source is an Australian think-tank report written by a Cyber, Technology and security program analyst? And it's corroborated by Adrian Zenz of all peapole? Not the best of sources.
  
  If "we" is the UN (I dont consider myself part of them), which doesn't even report on Palestine's birth rates since the 90s because it doesnt recognize it as a state. Do you have any non-UN based sources? They are obviously western biased.
  Like, there's a lot of stuff happening why is this only a worry in China? America is experiencing a huge birth rate decline as well.

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