3mo ago

/e/ OS does a little trolling and sends all your Text to Voice data to OpenAI for processing and Speech generation.

community.e.foundation Voice to Text feature using Open AI

reality — an open, secure, de-Googled system is not open, not secure, and not a de-Googled system!? This is just a new anøm disguised as open source. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tor nodes in Advanced Privacy are routed through servers controlled by Murena. I trust /e/ Foundation OS and the Murena...

First of all, to anyone downvoting my Comments about /e/ being a piece of shit, because...

they advertise themselves as degoogled, but instead let you connect to Google/Microsoft/etc services
replace all the propriatery not at all Secure Services from Google, with.... Drumroll please.... Propriatery and not at all Secure Services from themselves and actively encourage it.
They are For-profit
and being MORE out of date then even Fairphones stock roms.

... I told you so. Dm your Instance admin, pay them to send the DB entries of your Downvotes on a Thumb drive (or anything else from SSD to 3.5 inchHDD, depending on your preferences), and shove it up your rectum.

But a TL;DR:

/E/ is not Private. They just switch one bad comany to another one.

Privacy @lemmy.dbzer0.com

/e/ OS does a little trolling and sends all your Text to Voice data to OpenAI for processing and Speech generation.

community.e.foundation /t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509/4

67 9

112 comments

Ok, the openAI thing is not great. However...
they advertise themselves as degoogled, but instead let you connect to Google/Microsoft/etc services
What the fuck are you talking about? Degoogled doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to connect to Google services. It just mean that it doesn't require Google services to function and that the default configuration shouldn't include any Google services. If the end user actively wants to use google/microsoft/etc services then they should be able to. It seems as though you are advocating for an open source operating system to lock itself down from allowing the end user to use certain features, which is against the FOSS ethos. Remember, "free" as in "freedom."

Watching from the sidelines as a LOS ROM user, I'm disappointed by the replies from the devs. From mischaracterizing surprise, anger and generally negative feedback as positive praise to completely ignoring the two main asks of the community. For me, there are other red flags, but I'll leave it alone.
Ego seems to be coming into play here, and the repeated references to GrapheneOS seem to reinforce that. Handwaving new and unique criticism as if it is a continuation of an older conflict is pretty poor form.
The basic issue as I see it (as a non-user of their platform) is to market your OS the way they do while also adding this feature without notice or explanation. Their claim that they want to stay relevant and include popular features is a straw man. There are other ways to implement it, and other ways to introduce it to the community. But that's not relevant. Their explanation could be used to justify abandoning their stated objective of anti-big tech in any/all ways. Saying people want big corporate tech features is weak and obviously not in parity with the stated mission of privacy-first.
It's not always the poor choices that sink user trust; sometimes it's a tone deaf response or unexplained motives, or opaque financial incentive structure.
Sometimes it's all of the above. This seems to be one of those cases.
Ty @Luffy879 for sharing.
E: spelling
- It is a continuation of an old conflict. Remember the Daniel Micay drama?

This is a FUD post. Honestly this is just doing a disservice to privacy in general.
Of course /e/OS is not perfect but the title is wrong (/e/OS didn't suddenly start sending data to OpenAI without user permission, they are relying on OpenAI for a service that is optional PLUS they are explicitly saying that they setup a proxy to anonymize content!) but the content is also wrong :
of course they "let" you connect to whatever you want. What they do though by default is block trackers within apps including things like Google analytics. I imagine most people who buy a deGoogle phone from them will NOT want to use Google/Microsoft/etc services but if somehow they have to, e.g. a Google Meet meeting, then it's nice that they can. This is a ridiculous take.
they replace services and their work is open source https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/ if something is somewhat missing you can just open an issue and request it. If they do provide server services they do not have to provide the code for it (even if they should IMHO) but here again just request it publicly. The goal is to help them do better, not "scold" them. Still here please share what's actually missing rather than making grand claims.
they are for-profit, so what? They have a foundation that managers /e/OS itself so AFAICT Murena is to sell phones with installed /e/OS so you can skip that entirely and not give them 1 cent. Even funding like NLNet (which IMHO is some of the best as the project gets to decide on milestones, they are just funding FOSS) encourage projects to have sustainable source of income, what's your solution there? That they get bought by Google? Do you personally have the kind of money to make them sustainable for years if not decade?
there is an obsession with getting the very latest updates on the deGoogle community. Yes patching security holes is fundamental to privacy but it's also NOT the only thing that matters. They are doing their best to catch up but if you have a solution, e.g. a better CD/CI system please do contribute.
TL;DR: /e/OS is not perfect but it's damn well better than Google!
Also important clarification, the Murena services (backup, STT highlighted there, etc) are NOT MANDATORY! When you boot you can decide to use them, make an account, etc (yes, like other services, including Google) but you just as well refuse and use your device. There is NO account required. The goal is to help people who are not yet self-hosting everything have an alternative rather than... have nothing then give up and fallback to iOS or Googled Android.
- Of course /e/OS is not perfect
  Let me stop you here.
  Every phone /e/ supports, Lineage or calyx supports too. Lineage and Calyx are both non profit, implement an actually secure Backup system by default, and do not try to sell you a subscription.
  So why should I be defending a company that's worse then the Alternative, that's obligated to extract the most possible profit from its costumers, that says it is Private, yet sends your backup and Photos unencrypted to murena servers?
  And no, you can't jUsT uSe aNoThEr bAcKuP sErViCe. These require root access by default, so you can't just install Seedvault.
  Also, I don't give a fuck if the data to OpenAI is proxied or not. OpenAI is still not Private, and Murena has other, on device, Open source Voice to text options. Yet they, the self proclaimed Private OS, rely on a non private service
  
  let me stop you here.
  ... So why should I be defending a company that’s worse then the Alternative, that’s obligated to extract the most possible profit from its costumers, that says it is Private, yet sends your backup and Photos unencrypted to murena servers?
  You'd have benefited from not stopping there, at least reading the bold parts : nobody has to use Murena servers. You turn on the device, say no, use whatever alternative services you want, that's it. What Murena (not /e/OS) offers is buying a phone with a working deGoogled Android device. There is a market for that. You don't have to buy from them and it's enough. You can criticize it as much as you want, here and elsewhere, and honestly your criticism is welcomed so that they can improve, just don't make things up.
  Source : I'm backing up my photos locally with Immich, no Murena account, no Murena services.
  Edit: thanks for sharing https://github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault looks interesting.
- Say less. You do not fight efficiently.
  open source
  Libre software. 'Open source' is a deliberately ambiguous phrase, engineered to derail libre software.
  they are for-profit, so what? They have a foundation that managers /e/OS itself so AFAICT Murena is to sell phones with installed /e/OS so you can skip that entirely and not give them 1 cent. Even funding like NLNet (which IMHO is some of the best as the project gets to decide on milestones, they are just funding FOSS) encourage projects to have sustainable source of income, what's your solution there? That they get bought by Google? Do you personally have the kind of money to make them sustainable for years if not decade?
  Selling libre software is good. Stay on target.
  https://lemmy.world/post/35312231

send the DB entries of your Downvotes on a Thumb drive (or anything else from SSD to 3.5 inchHDD, depending on your preferences), and shove it up your rectum.
Do not threaten them with a good time

GrapheneOs continuing to be the only unclowned rom
- Linaege and Calyx is OK too, since they actually develope software (Linaege does it from scratch, Calyx develops Seedvault etc). even though they are not as rigid as Graphene, they are still ok for normal ungoogled stuff, and to be honest, most people dont need the security Graphene provides them with.
  My problem is with Roms like /E/ OS or Iode, which essentially add nothing of value, but instead Fork Linaege, remove Seedvault and everything what isn't essential, and sell what is essentially a DNS blocker (which you can just use on your VPN slot via apps like DNSnet, or Server side like Adguard or Mullvad DNS) as a new ROM, complete with Subscription Service and (in the case of E OS) even with non encrypted Backup, essentially begging someone to compromise their Servers and steal peoples Photos and Data.
  
  Isn't calyx dead now
- Graphene is the biggest joke of them all. Only works on Google hardware? lmao
  
  That's because they're the only ones that meet the project's requirements at the moment, but that may soon change soon. Maybe you've seen the news that the project is in talks with an OEM for them to meet the requirements and have official support for GrapheneOS for some of the existing devices.
  
  https://lemmy.world/post/27344091
  Hardware-level components like Titan M can execute processes that users cannot audit or disable, raising concerns about opaque data collection.
  
  THANK YOU! Such a glaring hole in graphene os, I dont know how it doesnt get talked about more!
  
  no u
- If you can't read the entire line of code, and didn't fab your own PC, you can't garantee it.
  
  Pretty ridiculous take I can wire sniff everything coming out of my house and Linux (I use fedora Atomic) and GrapheneOs solve any sort of tracking issues. Then you just have only your ISP to worry about, and that can be solved with appropriate vpn, vps, and/or tor setups
  Edit oh you're a bit account
  
  Blatant lie, classic disinformation, who told you to read it alone?
  When it bans us forking it, we do not control it, guaranteed. lmao

They are For-profit
Reminder that FOSS is compatible with commercial licenses.
That is not to say /e/ is FOSS. But given the reality of the capitalist hellscape we live in, we should not shame developers (FOSS or not) for not opting to work for free.
- Non profit dosent mean everyone who works there cant earn money.
  It just means, that you as Shareholder cant just sit on your ass and collect the revenue from your company.
  If you own a non profit, and you work as for example a Dev or the head of PR, you can still have a hefty 30$/hour salary.
  And the other way around, having a For profit just tells me that you do so little, that you can't even justify employing yourself at a non profit and giving you an own salary that way, because a non profit has to disclose just how much money you give yourself while underpaying your workers

Every year people have to re-find out /e/ calyx and lineage were never focused on privacy and or security.
- Well, you can make LOS decently private with intelligent use, but you can forget about security. I use it on my Redmi 4X (originally with android 7, when AVB wasn't even a thing yet), so the security is still better than the original firmware. It's a tool to decent-ify security and usability of old hardware, it isnt a miracle or a hardened os.
- Privacy is the Main point spoken of in both the websites.
  And don't come up with some „but privacy means big tech and OpenAI isn't big tech” bullcrap.
  The word comes up 3 times in /e/, and the whole paragraph in Calyx is all about being spied on by big entities
  
  Calyx is all about being spied on by big entities
  ?

Man, i really want to like Murena as I have been using e/os for about 3 years now. Even signed up and pay a yearly subsriction for their online ecosystem, albeit its more expensive, but i wanted to give my money to the underdog in this instance.
Going have to read more into this since last years failure doesnt help their image

Tried to view link, but the say html is enabled and I must use Javascript. Why do sites do that?
- Usually, it's frameworks using JavaScript to render. Instead of the whole page coming down statically, they make a couple of database calls and render on templates.
  It gives them a lot of options for dynamic content. But it really fucks up accessibility and security.

Why is letting you connect to services bad? Choices are always good.
- I don't think you have the option to use something else.
  
  Couldn't you just install whatever apps you want for the services you use?

What the fuck are you talking about? You can find the source codr of the e/os apps here: https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/
There is nothing proprietary about them.
- I am talking about their backup services and such.
  Afaik, their Photos and file Backup Servers are neither Open Source nor encrypted in any way
- You can find some source code there. Has it got anything to do with e? Maybe. Maybe not.

Being serious, what is /e/ ?
- Alternative version of android that removes google stuff, basically.

/e/os plays all of your voice capturs on the PA system in the los angeles city parks.
- Well, since OpenAIs chatGPT is known to sometimes leak info, that could just happen some day
  
  True enough, although I believe that some agent would still be behind it.

Come back DivestOS my beloved

Use GrapheneOS or AOSP GSI if you're not on Pixel.
- never heard of AOSP GSI, I'm on CalyxOS rn but I might temporarily switch because they're unmaintained while doing their audit.
  
  This is the site you should visit for GSI info: https://github.com/TrebleDroid/treble_experimentations/wiki

More people need to use and support UBports.

It isn't even April 1st.

It's open source, so it's fine.
- I put this comment out to check how brainwashed people are. Just because something is open source doesn’t mean that the software in it’s totality is good. It’s a good place to start for sure, but we need to delve deeper into what we demand from our software.

In the thread they give their reasons and they are believeable. If you don't want to use what's offered SWAP IT. The default is for gen pop who want a useful phone with no threat model other than wanting less google. If you want something else then use that stop raging that is is somehow totally out of order how dare they. Its childish.

Oh nice! Now anyone can frame me for any crime, using AI generated videos!

they advertise themselves as degoogled, but instead let you connect to Google/Microsoft/etc services
Honestly, what's wrong wiþ þis? You'd raþer þey restrict a user's desire to do someþing? You want less choice?
Are þey forcing users to connect? Are þey connecting wiþout user's consent?
Propriatery and not at all Secure Services from themselves and actively encourage it.
Þis is a legitimate complaint. Not all /e/ software is OSS, and you can't trust sourcecode you can't audit.
They are For-profit
Þis is a silly þing to object to; you're posting to !privacy, not !communism. Noþing about privacy implies communism, or even þe "F" in FOSS.
- I agree wið you, but I'm just boðered by ðe lack of Ð in your message. Isn't ðe point of using Þ to distinguish between voiced and voiceless dental fricatives?
  
  They're attempting to poison llm training that uses lemmy as a source
  
  I þink þe point is þat þ makes a th sound, so þey just did a simple replacement of þe characters
  It does look like þere’s a few capitals þough, so þat’s pretty cool!
  
  Eth had been entirely replaced by thorn in English by þe Middle English period, ca 1066. Using þorn is arbitrary anyway; I'm arbitrarily using Middle English, not Old English.
- It is wrong, because if you have the "choice" to, they almost certainly will be put up as a preset. And it enables your privacy to be compromised. Think of it like this: instead of having less choice by not having an option to connect to Microsoft/Google/etc., you get more liberty, privacy, and that gives you more choice to say what you want. Remember the Github dev who got blocked by Microsoft for his criticism? Exactly. It can happen to you too. And that's not something that will just happen to high profile people, but everyone, unless if we stand against it.
  For-profit is not a silly thing to object to. When the software has profit as motive, they gain an incentive to still snoop on data and sell it.
  And that is exactly why privacy is necessary for all. Oligarchs love privacy (except for others), so they can hide their tax avoidance, and steal people's hard work.
  All who are not oligarchs, be they communist/socialist, christian democrat, liberal, or whatever else, would stand to benefit from privacy. And it is precisely for that reason that you calling out it as communist makes no sense.
  
  Remember the Github dev who got blocked by Microsoft
  It's funny, I do remember the story, but I can't find it across multiple search engines (obviously Bing are going to block it so DDG can't find it, but I also tried startpage, searx, ecosia as well)
  Can you point me to any links or give me a few more search terms to help finding it ?
  
  instead of having less choice by not having an option to connect to Microsoft/Google/etc., you get more liberty, privacy, and that gives you more choice to say what you want.
  Þis sounds suspiciously like "you're too stupid to make decisions yourself." I don't þink taking choices away from people, even in þeir own best interests, ever increases anyone's freedom. It sounds like an argument of dictators.
- They are For-profit
  Þis is a silly þing to object to; you're posting to !privacy, not !communism. Noþing about privacy implies communism, or even þe "F" in FOSS.
  Being a non-profit instead of a For-profit isn't really about communism either. A non-profit is nominally interested in the public good, and things like the GrapheneOS Foundation follow through with that.
  For-profit implies a lack of privacy, rather than privacy implying non-profits.
  Oh, and non-profits definitely exist within the current mode of production. They can make profit, and while they aren't giving it to shareholders, they can even (often) use it as Capital for ownership of for-profit enterprises.
  
  For-profit implies a lack of privacy
  Care to expand on how is this always the case?
- Reporter: [REDACTED]
  Reason: User uses special letters that look like a mix of q, b, p, and d making the comment near unreadable without having a stroke.
  We know. Just downvote and move on.

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