Tesla sales plunge 40% in Europe as Chinese EV rival BYD's triple
Tesla faces a number of challenges in Europe including continued intense competition and brand damage from Elon Musk's political involvement.
Both cars support oppressive dictators, but one is cheaper, supports CarPlay / Android auto, and has actually buttons for things.
I am not sure you can say BYD supports a dictator per se, more like it exists in a state capitalist country where you exist at the behest of the dictator.
Elon actively pushed and spent money to get trump elected.
Well played sir, well played.
Pooh bear is actually starting to look less oppressive in comparison these last 7 months tbh
Trump is definitely headed in China's direction, but MSNBC is still allowed to exist.
This is what I hate. One is owned by a fuck cunt. The other is owned by china. Neither one are actually good options if you are not buying one because of their beliefs
Other options exist; you don't have to buy either. Volkswagen Group, Audi, Renault, BMW, Fiat etc all make EVs in Europe. Hyundai & Kia also both make excellent EVs.
Buying a Tesla is a choice these days. Nobody trips and falls into Tesla ownership. And although those cheap Chinese manufacturers look mighty tempting, they're not the only alternative out there.
BYD cars don't have very many buttons either. See here. They're tablets on wheels too. I quite dislike BYD interiors.
True, but that thing is like a fighter jet compared to Telsa’s void of emptiness. 14 controls on the wheel (and they’re labeled), real controls for drive modes, there are basic climate controls on the center console, you can manually adjust fan orientation, etc.
It’s still overly reliant on touch, but I’d easily take that over a Telsa.
Good thing the Tesla board voted to give Elmo all those billions to make him stay, because for a second there was an actual risk that Tesla could survive as a company without Elmo, but now they kept him and made sure they'll all go down off that cliff.
How tf does someone with a bajillion dollars look like a pile of wet garbage bags at 54? Aren't they all supposed to be using lotions made from aardvark assholes and incubus foreskins to maintain immortality?
You laugh, but it's worse than you might think.
Literal vampire shit lmao.
Well it turns out that ketamine isn't the elixir of life.
You take that back. You take that back right now!!
Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.
nah, forget about them
let us have economical cars because we don't need these massive expensive things just to go 5km to get a load of groceries
Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.
A bike costs a fraction of a car
Bicycle infrastructure building and maintenance costs a fraction of that for cars
Bicycles don't emit CO2. And for those wise asses saying that the cyclist does, it's a fraction of a fraction of a car because you're not lugging 2 tonnes of stell around to transport you and a bottle of milk.
Cycling infrastructure is much more efficient, you can push a shit tonne more people over the same road if you don't need big ass cars. Yes, even your Mercedes smart car is I ass compared to a bicycle
It creates much much less pollution from tire dust
It's much safer, bicycles kill only a fraction of the people that cars kill all year round
It's healthier, people do exercise not because they went to the gym, but all day every day with their bikes
It cuts the noise pollution
It's cheaper because no taxes, no gas needed, maintenance is a fraction of that of a car.
It's way less wasteful
It lowers aggression. Though it may or may not exist, I've never heard of bicycle road rage
Need more?
Less cars is less parking spaces. Parking spaces get cities barely any taxable income. Instead of these ugly ass concrete wasteland parkitsoaces you can now have restaurants with outside patios which can be taxed. Couple that with the cheaper infrastructure, and that alone should be an obvious reason as to why do this
It's really not that much slower. For typical short trips, bicycles usually only add some 10-20% of required time to your trip.
For any trip over say, 5-10 kilometers, use good public transportation
For those once in a lifetime trips where you actually need a car because you need to transport something huge, use one of those Evo rent-a-car.
In the Netherlands, a huge amount of people don't have a car. Not because they can't (they totally can) but because it's stupid to have one. You can go everywhere by bike, you can jump with your bike in a train when needed to go further, cars are expensive and bad for everyone, why even have one?
I'm all for fuck the US but don't you think Canada can make it's own cars? Being dependent on China's economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.
While Canada making its own affordable, long range EV's would be ideal in the long run, we literally have no canadian-owned production facilities or brands that currently can, or do produce low or mid end cars, and Canada seems to have no interest in subsidising those.
Which means, in the short run, I want a vehicle I can afford to buy that doesn't give me range anxiety, and the only reason I can't is because Canada literally doubled the price of the cars that currently exist that fit my requirements because the US asked them to.
Hydro Quebec invented BYD's battery technology, the only reason they licensed it to BYD in the first place is nobody else was going to do anything with it.
Not one more penny for this Nazi!
I don't get how a company is losing this much in multiple countries yet is still operating?
Like if they can lose this much and still be operating and investments not tanking, would it follow that they can pay better wages and benefits?
The US is corrupt enough at this point the only thing massive corporations have to do to survive is be massive.
Many companies that never even have turned a consistent profit are major players in the US economy.
The idea of valuing actual market competition is a distraction conservatives point to as a cool aesthetic and it has little to do with the economic reality of the US. So long as the right people are in power a dictatorship is totally acceptable to conservatives by and large and the inevitable end result of that as we are seeing are stunning displays of incompetency at the highest levels of power.
in US the patriotism is injected into a brand. Way more money than brains.
Yeah go figure we keep on pumping money into oil companies, when solar and batteries are tariffed. Easy to set why Trump has gone bankrupt so many times.
We even have electric companies actively trying to deter home solar installs with legislation, while other counties are embracing a VPP model.
Last I checked years ago, they sold their carbon credits for a whole lot of money whenever they earned them.
My commute is about 20 miles a day. Charging level 1 at work is enough unless I go out on the weekend. My Nissan Leaf has been good enough for me. And it is neither Tesla nor Chinese.
My only gripe with that car is that it looks really bland. Then again I am no James Dean where I sit with two kids seats with the back full of shopping
I think it's a good looking car. My problem with it is chademo. It's unfortunately the betamax of plugs.
Damn good car too. My bro rocked one for years, deceptively large inside. Quarterly he'd drive about 1000km in it which I think was mad but made it work, 80km at a time!!!
Hell yeah
I bought byd stock. It keeps going down. I will never understand investing
And I've been holding tesla for years and it goes up even when news is shit. I don't get it either
It’s just too complex for you. You’ll never understand things like regression charts, Fibonacci patterns and crime
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto
Realistically their sales in Europe are a statistical noise.
Markets can stay irrational longer than you and I can stay solvent.
Chinese indexes/etfs are mostly good for its stability, overall it doesnt grow as much as other markets, but it tends not to drop as much either.
You never buy an individual firm stock unless you have insider knowledge.
I'm genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy. It's authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don't have to choose the lesser evil.
Why would I give a fucking shit? Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data. Honestly, I'd rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America. At least china won't do anything to me, our government is more of a threat to the average American than china is.
What a defeatist take.
Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data
Fuck me, it has to be sad living in this paranoid state...
I’d rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America
Ignorance at it's best. You'd rather support the state that is committing literal genocide than capitalism.
Sure, capitalism is cancer and sucks, but I don't think it's worse than genocide, mate.
Is it. I know it's a Chinese company but is there any evidence that there is anything going on?
The evidence is in the fact that it's a Chinese company. They are required by law to provide the government with all the data they collect (and we know they collect data).
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy
You are actually genuinely surprised... people on lemmy like something from china? I guess you know not a lot about lemmy lol.
Here's a hint: A lot of people on lemmy love china, especially the people who created it, and even moreso the people who populated it in its first days. You should look into lemmy a bit more if that's genuinely surprising to you.
Why would someone who doesn't live in China give a shit about Chinese spyware, especially when the alternative is any of the big US/EU manufacturers who happily hand your information to your own government?
China can't do shit to yall. I'd include myself in there, but I quite enjoyed my time in China and intend to return, so Chinese spyware could actually be a threat to me.
Lemmy has always been removed like that.
Lemmy is weird. As long as you're on the dogpile against the current "big bad" of the week, you're good to go. Fuck Tesla? Then let's buy Chinese products.
It's insane, but it's where we are.
It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
Let's not forget that they are actively committing genocide against the Uighur. I don't think they are the "lesser evil".
Right right, of course that's true, and it's also true that many people have requirements that can only be met by a few vehicles on the market.
I pick the cheapest.
Do you carry a cell phone?
Quick Elon, buy the President of Europe! /s
If he could be would try
Any non-cunts in the EV manufacturing space? Or is that a prerequisite?
Hyundai has been pretty good. And I only hear good things about Rivian and Lucid.
I have a Chevy Bolt EUV. Maybe it's still cunty. But I'm pretty sure it better than China spyware or a Nazi.
Tesla will be bankrupt in 2 years.
what a coincidence, so will i
I wonder if a large part of this as well is strictly because BYD is priced cheaper. I know for me personally 90 percent of the reason I haven't invested in electric is because they're all still luxury priced.
i drive a 440. it's got a giant supercharger sticking out of the hood trying to get me pulled over all the time. i have to wear earplugs while driving to avoid permanent hearing loss. there's no way to listen to shiteating death metal while driving, because the engine is just too loud. handles turns like shit. i don't give a fuck
I don't know about you but I drive over 5-10km regularly. For a short miserable stretch my daily commute was 90 miles. Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike. And then there's work tools and whatnot that many professionals keep in vehicle.
The ebike option meme is so laughable. I recently did some research on cargo bikes and the entry models cost as much as a used ICE car with no air con, no rain cover, no heating, no safety. Ebike people are straight up delusional in thinking this is ready to replace cars.
Getting a second hand ice car is objectively the best thing you can do right now for everyone involved unless you ride half a million km a year.
I don't think it is laughable.
A new cargo is 5000€ and you can find used or discounted ones for less than 3000€.
A used car will cost far more in repairs, insurance and gas, my 2010 car is valued around 3000€ and it costs us around 1000-1500€/year.
I don't think bikes can replace cars for everyone, but many people could use a bike instead or their car 95% of the time, when we see that so much people use a car for less than 5 km.
Only concern is safety to use a bike in the middle of fast cars, but a proper infrastructure (separated bike lanes) solves it for a fraction of the cost of roads and parking places.
Ok? I bought my E-Bike 8 years ago for 1500€ and use two roller bags and grab a bit of groceries on my way back from work. It's a 10km commute one way, so a total of 20km. It takes me a grand total of 26 minutes to get to work. The car usually takes longer due to traffic.
I mean, it's nice having a PHEV for bigger tasks but we (family of 3) only have one car. We do plenty with our E-Bikes.
Edit: and yes, I use the bike in winter, during rain and snow and I don't give a shit. I fortunately also don't live in a total shit hole, which was a choice I actively made.
I tried it and in my country they're restricted to 15.5mph so largely did nothing for me as my route is out in the countryside.
I moved to an e-moped (like an electric vespa) and it's been amazing. About £1k to buy, £80 to insure and albeit restricted to 50mile range the equivalent mpg is something like 400mpg.
Naturally doesn't work if you need to carry kids or large objects around routinely but has been great for me
Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike.
Not sure why buying groceries on a bike would be annoying or impossible. I do all my grocery shopping by bike, every single day, sometimes twice a day. Just bring a backpack.
As for ‘anything of size’, what would you need to transport? I still have a car, but I use it so little that I only need to buy gas maybe once or twice a year.
I'm completely out of shape and don't exercise at all, but commuted to work on a bike when my workplace was ~5 miles away. Wasn't hard at all and only took a little longer than a car. Had a rack on the back and bags to pick up groceries too. If you need carry a lot of heavy tools every day, it obviously wouldn't be ideal. Even then a bicycle trailer could be used up to something like 100lbs.
finally some good news.
Tesla vs BYD is overhyped in Europe. Car sales rose 8%. Many European brands did better than this average. Hybrid and EV growth at about 35% in Europe should be story. Fine Tesla is sucking. We get it.
It’s important to teach everyone that being a racist Nazi is a bad business strategy.
My sales to Europe have plunged 0%! Its all due to not being a racist asshole. Also I don't sale anything, I'm just a non racist person who doesn't sale anything to Europe at the moment.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn't be any surprise they're selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I'm immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
You should learn about US fossil fuel subsidies. The US alone pumps almost 800 billion/yr into subsidising the industry. Total subsidies worldwide are around 7 trillion/yr.
China tossing 40 Billion/yr into EV/battery subsidies is basically pocket change.
Doesn't the EU balance it out with tariffs?
Those cheap BYDs ain't all that cheap here
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc... We could really have something great.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real
Yes they are, but in this case you are just wrong. I guarantee you I'm not a tankie, but I think it's pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.
All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let's put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US (the discussion was about Europe), and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
Also it's much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/07/29/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-world-except-china-in-ev-adoption/ 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.
European brands doing well. I don't know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren't subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don't know what you're talking about, and "everyone's a tankie" for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
And is even cheaper if someone else pay 30% of what you need to spend to build a car. So you can sell the car 30% less than others and still make a profit (maybe).
It is not a mystery that CCP subsidizes a lot of domestic EVs (among other things like solar panel) to become the dominant player in the market.
What would be interesting to see is what will happen after they become the dominant player.
