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Linux @lemmy.ml
Jack_Burton @lemmy.ca

Do you guys just have flawless experiences or what?

It's been a week. Ubuntu Studio, and every day it's something. I swear Linux is the OS version of owning a boat, it's constant maintenance. Am I dumb, or doing something wrong?

After many issues, today I thought I had shit figured out, then played a game for the first time. All good, but the intro had some artifacts. I got curious, I have an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 and thought that was weird. Looked it up, turns out Linux was using lvmpipe. Found a fix. Now it's using my card, no more clipping, great!. But now my screen flickers. Narrowed it down to Vivaldi browser. Had to uninstall, which sucks and took a long time to figure out. Now I'm on Librewolf which I liked on windows but it's a cpu hungry removed on Linux (eating 3.2g of memory as I type this). Every goddamned time I fix something, it breaks something else.

This is just one of many, every day, issues.

I'm tired. I want to love Linux. I really do, but what the hell? Windows just worked.

I've resigned myself to "the boat life" but is there a better way? Am I missing something and it doesn't have to be this hard, or is this what Linux is? If that's just like this I'm still sticking cause fuck Microsoft but you guys talk like Linux should be everyone's first choice. I'd never recommend Linux to anyone I know, it doesn't "just work".

EDIT: Thank you so much to everyone who blew up my post, I didn't expect this many responses, this much advice, or this much kindness. You're all goddamned gems!

To paraphrase my username's namesake, because of @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone and his apt gif (also, Mr. Flickerman, when I record I often shout about Clem Fandango)...

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall GNU/LINUX OS grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

227 comments

  • What you are experiencing is called a learning curve. Don't let it get you angry, learn from it. NVIDIA is known to be problematic for Linux users (I have had my share of issues with my 2080 Ti) but once it is setup it is problem free. Librewolf is known to be one of the chunkier options, but 3gb really isn't that much for modern systems (especially if you have 16 or 32gb of memory). I would personally take Librewolf's privacy features over closed-source Vivaldi any day. Linux overall is much more efficient than Windows and I would bet that your system idle memory usage with nothing open is lower than it was with Windows.

  • Yes, I have a near flawless experience with Linux, but it was years in the making. One thing people don't realize when they switch over is the amount of time you've spent in dealing with similar issues on Windows, but you did it so long ago and so often they're second nature to you, so you don't perceive them as problems. But when you start from scratch on Linux they're daunting problems because they force you to learn new stuff.

    The same will happen to Linux over time, some stuff you'll fix once and forever, others you'll learn to work around and be okay with it. For me nowadays whenever I have to use Windows for something more than simple stuff it's death by a thousand cuts, because I haven't used windows in so long that my muscle memory for those caveats and weirdness (that I didn't even noticed before switching) is completely gone.

    As for the specific things, you're using an Nvidia card, which is known for not playing nice with Linux, you haven't mentioned drivers but you have two options here, open source and very poorly performative Nouveau driver or the proprietary and doesn't play nice with other stuff Nvidia one. Both are bad, but probably you want the Nvidia one.

    Also I don't know how Ubuntu studio is, but I would recommend you try other distros, maybe Mint or I've heard wonderful stuff for Bazzite. Any way you can have your /home be in a different partition so you don't lose your data when switching over and trying stuff, eventually you might find something that clicks for you, and it's smooth sailing from then on. Good luck.

  • I know I'm very late to the party and any comment in a thread with 200+ posts is like yelling at the void.

    BUT

    My experience with Windows has hardly been "it just works". In fact it has been a history of decades of tinkering and messing around with it to try and get it to do what I want.

    The only difference is that Windows obscures everything, so when something breaks it does so quietly. Meaning you might not notice... Or. More likely. It'll just crash out and you don't even have an error code to google.

    This isn't to say that Linux isn't a balancing act of constant maintenance. It is. Just... The Windows experience was never "better" for me from that angle. And... On some level, I enjoy all the tinkering. I think all Linux folks do.

    • Still new with Linux as my regular desktop at home, after ditching Windows (kind of), I'm amazed by the level of things I can try to go into a try to make stuff work, that does not do as I want to. But also, annoyed about the level of things that sometimes needs to get tweaked and thinking "why the hell do I need to make these changes" like super fast scrolling in Firefox for whatever reason.

      Windows have more or less "just worked" for me for the last 30 years (not remembering anything too critical, always better than every Linux attempt until recently). But I also didn't treat Windows in a way that I had to reinstall it every 6 months (whatever that causes that). What have gotten me over the tipping point with Windows is all the push for me to subscribe to extra things (OneDrive), use Microsoft things (like Bing, even though I used to use it over Google), Edge trying to trick you into using Edge and copy your stuff from Chrome, and changing defaults to Microsoft apps.

      At work I changed to a Mac. I was actually surprise at how many graphics issues I have noticed and other weird minor bugs. The biggest issue here is the keyboard layout when you remote into Windows servers and some modifier keys are mapped differently combined with non-English keyboard layout.

  • I don't know if it's of any solace, Linux used to be a much more... ahem... "involved" experience a decade or two ago. This was more-or-less the norm:

    I can't really say what the newcomer experience is nowadays, but I can say for sure that even in the worst-case (as it was in the times when I started using it), after a couple months of furious issue-fixing and trying new things, you will eventually settle on a setup that works for you. Some people actually get addicted to all the problem-solving and start looking for more issues to fix; some start distrohopping to find a "more perfect setup", getting their fix of issue-fixing in the process. If you're not one of them, congrats, at that point you can (mostly) just continue using it, until you need to update your hardware, then process may or may not be repeated depending on your luck. If you really hate fixing issues twice, you can look in the direction of declarative distros like NixOS or Guix, but I will warn you that the two-three months of furious hacking is still very much a thing here, but after that you're set more or less for life.

  • Not flawless, but also not catastrophic.

    It seems like the problems I encounter lessen (or lessen in difficulty to troubleshoot) as I use arch linux more and more.

    If you use amd hardware, then I guess you'll have a good time with the distros. Most "user friendly" distros should work out of the box. Try switching to something other than debian based.

    With the nvidia open kernel modules, it has been rather hassle free for me.

    Also remember to check the arch wiki. It's a great resource.

  • The premise of the question is that it's somehow supposed to be a flawless experience.

    Nothing is flawless. Linux has a learning curve. Everything does.

    The advantage to Linux is, if you learned Linux 15 years ago, then got stranded on a desert island, got rescued, and installed a new distro today, you can still count on more or less everything working exactly as you expect it to - maybe a bit smoother.

    With Windows, who knows? It's death from a thousand tiny cuts every other day to avoid a deeper, persistent, and meaningful understanding of your system. The time you spend learning how to do things in Linux isn't WASTED. That knowledge will never STOP being useful. It's best not to look at it as an annoyance so much as an INVESTMENT.

    • That's a bit of a flawed approach, at least if we're talking about the average user. The average user doesn't want nor shouldn't need to have a deep understanding of the OS. If you're a dev or interested in it, sure, it's good to know, but asking the average person to have to constantly tinker with their OS is like asking people to diagnose their own illnesses. Sure, it would be nice if you knew medicine and why you were sick and how to cure it, but it doesn't make sense to expect everyone to do it. Most people don't care, and have better things to do in their life.

      • I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this premise.

        There are lots of things you can get by in life without knowledge of. If you don't know how vaccines work, you can go right on through your life and argue that you have better things to do... until we reach a critical mass of people who are willfully ignorant and the next thing you know we have a head of health and human services who thinks eating random dead animals is a safe way to boost your immune system making decisions.

        Large-scale, pervasive ignorance of things that are actually critical and consequential to the functioning of society is not without consequence. It's a free world and people are free to take the view that they don't care. They're also free to completely forgo and not use technology. But both using it in your daily life AND deciding it isn't important to know any basic knowledge about how it works? I'm not concerning myself with those people - I don't understand OR respect their decision.

        I am very understanding of "it's too difficult, make it easier". I am NOT understanding or accommodating of "I don't think I should have to do it at all."

        Edit: Furthermore, we wouldn't even be HAVING this conversation if those people really believed that produced good enough results. Most operating systems are ALREADY built with that philosophy. If Windows and other operating systems that are built based around the philosophy that you don't need to understand anything and the OS should do everything for you was working so well, why are people looking at Linux in the first place? It's pretty clear that that philosophy is not producing satisfactory results anymore. I would argue it CAN'T produce satisfactory results. You either want control and freedom, and the responsibility and extra work that comes along with that, or you don't. There's no free ride that gets you both.

  • When installing distributions generally regarded as user-friendly on hardware that's well-supported, I usually do have pretty low-fuss experiences. It's usually no more trouble than installing Windows, though the average Windows user has never actually done that.

    When installing Arch Linux ARM on an old Chromebook and trying to make tablet mode and rotation play well with various lightweight window managers, I did not, in fact have a flawless experience. Once I tried Gnome on it, the experience became much smoother, but that's a little heavyweight on a 4gb machine.

  • You might like bazzite. I think it auto installs everything and has the discover store for installing flatpacks. Bazzite is based on steam os and is KDE on top of fedora. Its annoying to install software outside of flatpack, so im graduating to debian this weekend, but its a good first distro imo.

    Linux is annoying to learn. Debian supposedly is a much more simple version of linux without the immutable FS, which i like. You have to install your software yourself however. Bazzite is good if you want a minimal hassle install but not much customizability outside of the flatpack system.

    Linux is worth it if you can get your head around it. I have been using it for a few years and im sort of figuring it out finally and I will mever gocback to windows again. The one thing that temps me to use windows again is the ease of installing software, like adb and java and stuff.

    Alao dont forget to download lutris and install proton GE which has wider support for games(extra visual C redistributables and stuff) windows is basically dying at this point. It kills my storage and constantly is lagging because of the security stuff and file scanning. Many games have a 15% penelty in windows these days compared to emulating in proton on linux. Windows is consitently becoming less backward compatible with each update and is mostly just spyware at this point. Might as well bite the bullet and just dig into linux for a few years until you figure it out.

  • Been running the same Arch installation for a bit over a year. Minor issues here and there, but nothing out of the ordinary for general computer use.

    Learning was hard. I'd say it took me a good year before I was really genuinely comfortable with Linux overall, and even then, it was quite a while longer before I felt I could call myself experienced or proficient.

    I will say this, switching to AMD was a massive step up in terms of reliability. Also, and this is just my experience, but as someone who also started on Ubuntu, I've had far fewer weird obscure issues on Arch than on that, or any other distro I've tried. It's daunting, but it's so well documented that it's almost impossible to have an issue with no known fix.

  • All of the long time Linux users have what you perceive as flawless experiences because they already did all the stumbling you did and more. Every operating system has steep learning curves and you will struggle with how it does things when first starting out. I recently had to start using Windows again after exclusively using Linux for years (and Windows 11 no less which I never used before) and there are plenty of times I've failed to do simple things I could do on Linux without even thinking.

  • Constant maintenance no.

    Currently I have some issues with the Nvidia driver acting up. So I am getting good at purging it and reinstalling it. Maybe once a month.

    Under Ubuntu desktop.

    My server I have very little issues. For mye Proxmox environments I have a small issue after restart it doesn’t properly month a NFS share. If I don’t do mount -a.

    My laptop I have a constant issue that hibernating don’t work with encryption out of the box. So I have to turn if off or connected it to power. I think there have been mad some progress but I haven’t reinstalled Ubuntu for 2 years.

  • I've installed Debian Linux on over 50 devices by now. A vanilla configuration with GNOME works pretty much out of the box for me on a high-end desktop with a modern NVIDIA graphics card.

    I'd say the biggest part of the learning curve is figuring out which apps are good and suitable for what you're trying to do. Just like with Windows and macOS and Android and iOS, there's only a handful of viable options among an overwhelming sea of poor ones.

    There are many wrong ways to install NVIDIA on any given Linux distro and architecture, and only one functional way. As others here are saying, that's on NVIDIA, not you or Linux.

    General advice: whenever possible, strongly prefer your distro's standard package manager to install things over any other method. With Ubuntu, I believe that's either apt or snap.

    Also: if you find yourself poking around in some obscure system internals while troubleshooting an issue, you probably took a wrong turn somewhere.

  • Hello again, I remember you from another post I commented on lol.

    So a few things:

    1. Linux didn't "just work" for me when I switched over. I actually started my Linux journey with Arch like an idiot lol. Imagine the problems I had, pretty much nothing worked out of the box. I eventually got everything working after about 2 weeks of constant troubleshooting in the arch wiki, Linux forums, Reddit, and YouTube videos.

    Then a few months later I accidentally blew up my whole system with some command I ran without understanding what I did, broke everything, couldn't even boot into my OS anymore. I decided to distro hop a few times to see what worked best for me. Arch is great if you are a power user, but at the time I wasn't, so it was a terrible choice for me.

    I bounced between a few different distros and settled on Nobara, which is based on Fedora but with a ton of kernel-level patches for better gaming performance. And it came with lots of gaming related software already installed.

    1. I actually had as many or more issues with Windows leading up to trying Linux. Windows has always been pretty buggy for me, just bad luck I guess. On average I have way more issues with Windows than Linux, and the Linux issues I can usually solve, but the Windows issues generally I just had to end up dealing with because there was no good solution.
    2. I remember when I posted to you the other week that the most important thing for Linux distros was if it worked for you, and if you liked using it. Seems like so far you've answered that question with Ubuntu Studio in the negative. It's not been working well for you, and you're getting frustrated using it. That's fine, the beauty of Linux is there are a ton of other options, and you aren't stuck with just having to deal with a specific distro.

    Some people will swear by a specific distro. They've used it for 10+ years on 15 different computers and never had a single major problem. Great for them, that doesn't mean you will or won't, try several, find your home distro and stick with it.

    For me, there is one distro I would recommend for new Linux users more than any other, Linux Mint. It is based on Ubuntu, so you've already got a bit of experience with that under the hood. It comes with a easy GUI utility for installing NVidia drivers, so you don't have to manually install additional repos and drivers via the terminal. Their Cinnamon desktop isn't the prettiest or most modern looking desktop, it doesn't have a ton of customizability either, but it's rock stable. I've never had a single major crash or lock up with the Cinnamon desktop environment, it's simple, intuitive, and stable.

    Part of starting the Linux journey is trying different options. Some users get lucky their first time and land on the perfect distro that they use for years, but most don't. Most try a handful of distros before settling on their favorite. You probably wouldn't go to a shoe store, try on the first pair you see and then buy them right? You browse the selection, find a few that look nice and seem comfy, try them on, walk around in them, pose a bit, then pick your favorite.

    And like I said before, as you build up your Linux skills, the issues will become easier and easier to solve. Problems that took me hours to troubleshoot and solve when I was new take 5 minutes to fix now. Things that I had to watch hours of videos and read dozens of forum posts to understand are just "common sense" to me now. You'll get there, just keep an open mind and hold on, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    If you need/want additional help, DM me and I will do my best to help out. For Linux Mint if you decide to try it, don't worry about the various alternative versions they have. Just go with their standard download, Linux Mint, Ubuntu edition, with the Cinnamon desktop.

    • I really appreciate you taking the time…again haha. I get that it’s a learning curve, my biggest issue is pretty user specific. I’m a freelance voice actor, which is why I chose Ubuntu Studio.

      My concern for distro hopping is audio issues, more than I’ve already experienced. Ubuntu Studio was “built for creatives” so it seemed like the best option and based on my experience, it probably is haha. I can’t imagine trying to make this work from scratch.

      The obvious answer is to go back to Windows, it really is WAY better for precise audio recording the easy way. Though I’ve matched (and even bettered) my audio output with Linux, it takes a lot more time and effort which won’t get better. Linux takes more steps for NY work flow and there’s no way around that.

      That said, I made the switch for personal reasons, and I’ve fully committed even though it’s created many hurdles. I needed to vent, and really appreciate you and everyone else taking the time. Thank you.

      • No prob, always happy to help another user if I can, especially the newbies. I was you once, I remember many nights of wanting to rip my hair out and toss my computer out a window lol.

        Audio issues can be a bear. What is your current setup? DAC, Microphone, DAW of choice, etc?

  • Honestly depends on the hardware. I still had an Nvidia card for the first year I used Linux and 90% of my issues stemmed from that...

    As for everything else I've had a much easier time with Linux than most people I know because I unintentionally bought peripherals that already worked great with Linux before I was even thinking about switching.

    A few people I know have tried Linux but ran into issues with their mice or audio equipment that require proprietary drivers or dedicated software to fully function. Most of these are the big name "gamer" brands like Razer.

    I had issues with Razers software all the way back on Windows 7 so I swore off buying anymore keyboards or mice that require 3rd party drivers so I never had an issue with them when switching over.

  • If you want to install any apps go with Flatpaks for reliability. Since Ubuntu has snaps, install the snap variant of available. Imo Flatpaks have greatly reduced the number of issues like dependency problems for me.

    Have you tried any other distro ? I'd recommend any of the universal blue projects or fedora silverblue as it is relatively maintainance free and just like using windows/macos. If you game just go with Bazzite, otherwise try Aurora/Bluefin. In most cases you won't even have to use the terminal that much, but if you do they have really nice cli tools too.

    If you still want to go the traditional approach - Arch based distros can also be very good, ateast you will be able to find answers on the archwiki and try those solutions. It's not like Ubuntu is bad, it's kind of janky sometimes and I kind of liked the conveince of finding all that I need within the archwiki. Arch has fast updates, so things will break once in a while.. however my experience has been really good with arch for many years now. if you want to try it then go with either EmdavourOS or CachyOS - both are setup quite well out of the box.

    TL;DR - try Flatpaks, try low maintenance distros like Bazzite and use it like you normally do.

  • You're not dumb and we don't have a flawless experience... but me and my son aren't nearly having as much trouble as you. Maybe you're unlucky with hardware support. For some it does "pretty much" works. I'm genuinely glad you're sticking to it some more and I hope you continue learning and that your experience gets smoother.

  • For me the experience is not flawless, but it's not problematic either. For instance, I have never encountered random flickering just because a wrong program was open. In your case if you're using Nvidia as a GPU and are using Wayland as a display compositor that might explain some of your problems like Vivaldi flickering, where it might not be an issue in an Xorg session.

    And the fact that you have to be potentially aware of these things is one of the annoying aspects of using Linux.

  • I’ve been distro hopping a little bit and honestly in my experience, anything based on Ubuntu has been inconsistent at best. Stock Ubuntu (or specifically Kubuntu since I prefer KDE) was the worst but Mint gave me issues too. Meanwhile, Fedora- and Arch-based distros have been perfect. Literally more consistent than MacOS or Windows for me, every single time. Personally I wouldn’t try another Ubuntu-based distro unless it was highly recommended.

227 comments