1y ago

A summary of what happened between Blahaj.Zone and Hexbear.Net

Lots of people who are seeing top-level postings about Hexbear. Net are probably confused about what has been going on and I want to give an SRD-style overview of the whole thing.
Note: As a user of Blahaj.Zone, I am not a neutral party in this and I do not pretend to be. This is how the whole thing has played out from my perspective.

Hexbear. Net is another Lemmy instance that had relatively recently started to federate with Blahaj.Zone and other Lemmy instances. It had previously been known as Chapo.Chat because it began as an instance for fans of the podcast ChapoTrapHouse.
Recently users from Blahaj.Zone (as well as other Lemmy instances) began to complain about the behavior of Hexbear users. The complaints were about rude, obnoxious behavior: Hexbear users calling people "libs" as an insult, denying crimes of Russia and China, denying the crimes of Stalin,...
Such behavior was not necessarily forbidden on Blahaj.Zone, but certain sub-Lemmys had their own rules on these subjects.
One of the threads about Hexbear: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1854795?scrollToComments=true

After an ever increasing number of users calling for defederating from Hexbear. Net, Ada (admin of Blahaj.Zone) opened a thread to talk about it. The thread was quickly inundated with Hexbear users, complaining in turn about being called out in this way. Though many of their comments exploited a current bug in the Lemmy code which resulted in emoji's being embedded as pictures which results in lots of image spam.
Ada responded by removing top-level comments in the thread which were not from Blahaj.Zone's users, because she wanted to get the feedback of her own community, not from anybody else.
This happened originally in this thread: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1959801

The discussion on Blahaj.Zone was a back and forth: Lots of people calling for "leftist and queer unity", others complaining about getting harassed by Hexbear users.

Meanwhile, elsewhere: Lemm.ee, a Lemmy instance operated and managed by someone from Estonia, also opened a discussion about Hexbear - at least partially motivated by the admin's increasing unease of the rampant denial of soviet atrocities and the occupation of Estonia by the Soviet Union. Russian propaganda in regards to the war in Ukraine was also an issue.
Lemm.ee was largely encountering similar problems as Blahaj.Zone, though the Lemme.ee admin admitted that the Hexbear admin was generally responsive to reports and complaints.
The thread on Lemm.ee: https://lemm.ee/post/4543536

The thread was also flooded with comments from Hexbear users. The admin of Lemm.ee also responded by hiding most of the comments from Hexbear.
https://mastodon.social/@brooklynman/110911292961470110

Back on Blahaj.Zone, a tangent opens up: A Hexbear user complains about c/196, the new home of Reddit's r/196 which had relocated to Blahaj.Zone and has been its biggest community ever since. The Hexbear user complains about their comments being removed, comments that called out the use of the r-word and other call-outs. The user posts pictures of the removal notices.
Blahaj.Zone's admin Ada steps in and intervenes on behalf of the Hexbear user, having a stern word with the c/196 mod responsible for the removal of the comments.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/2136643

A Hexbear admin also gets involved and sends a message to the mods of c/196 demanding the removal of the sub-Lemmy's banner, because it contains "fuck tankies²", arguing that tankies is a slur. The c/196 mod refuses and publishes their message.
[²"Tankies" is a pejorative term for authoritarian socialists in the vein of Stalin and/or Mao.]
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1961004

While the discussion if Blahaj.Zone should defederate from Hexbear is still ongoing, the Hexbear admins defederated from Blahaj.Zone without warning from their side, because of...

unaddressed ableist removals from the /c/196 moderators, defense of chasers, no-quarter rules regarding our users, leakage of good-faith DMs from our admin team, and a general lack of initiative to punish these behavior

In her a response to these events, Ada points out in a comment that she never had the chance to adress the ableist incident (she was in bed) while other issues had happened in the past and had been adressed at the time. Thus she could not react before Hexbear defederated.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/2135406

TL;dr: Blahaj.Zone's users complain about ill behavior of users on Hexbear. Net. A discussion about defederation begins on Blahaj.Zone. Meanwhile Hexbear users complain about Blahaj.Zone in turn and Hexbear. Net defederates instantly and without warning.

180 comments

I've had two major issues with these guys. While not necessarily worth defederating everyone, I really don't want to deal with hexbear because:
ALL of their content is political. When they first showed up on my feed, I watched what posts/communities came up and how their users interacted on non hexbear posts. I've done my best to remove all politics from my social media. These guys only talked about politics and would go to other communities to turn a normal conversation political.
Everything was extreme and obnoxious. I don't understand why everyone keeps calling them polite. There was a constant "you're with us or you're against us"/"my beliefs are always right" behavior that was really annoying, especially in a public space that wasn't polarized before they got there. It reminded me of this one girl from middle school who would walk into a room and loudly talk about whatever she wanted until all the other conversations petered out.
They're more than welcome to behave like that in their home, but they can't go to a public space and expect everyone to cater to their beliefs.
- Not a part of blahaj, but the impression I've gotten from what I've seen (primarily in the lemm.ee megathread) is that for better or worse hexbear takes the concept of radical transparency and debate to its fullest extreme. For the better, it can produce some intensely thought provoking discussions--I've had to reevaluate and reconsider my own personal ethics more in the past week or so than I have in the past few years.
  But the downside is that it's Just. So. Exhausting. I fully agree that everything they discuss has a political undertone to it in some way. It feels like they just cannot turn off, and I always have to be on my guard when they get involved in any discussion, even if it's nominally about a completely non-political topic. Even when they're making high effort posts instead of spamming emojis and pig poop balls, every discussion feels like a minefield, where the slightest misstep gets you punished with a "here's a response that implies/outright states you're woefully misinformed at best and a protofascist nazi at worst, here's a link to an obscure book written by a communist scholar 50 years ago that you should read before even trying to discuss this topic." Hexbear getting involved in a discussion is the discourse equivalent of a group playing 4-player FFA Smash Bros. with items on and someone rolls up and demands 1v1, no items, tournament ruleset only.
  I feel like I just cannot relax when hexbear is active in a discussion, and it's not even like I really disagree with their points--yes, the US is too powerful, yes, capitalism is bad--but I strongly disagree with their conclusions (supporting China and Russia because it weakens the US is the equivalent of voting for Trump because Biden/Hillary isn't liberal enough.) It's just that they are so laser-focused on debate and so ready to believe the worst in everyone (they called using "top kek" a holocaust denier dogwhistle FFS, that shit originated from freaking world of warcraft, and was popularized on 4chan back when it was just a shithole instead of a racist shithole! I occasionally use it because I'm an elder millennial and I like making dated references!) that even if you support their overall goals and philosophy, you still walk away mentally exhausted because of how carefully you had to parse your words to avoid stepping on a landmine.
  
  I just don't understand the defense of Soviet Union and China. Just because western civilization committed atrocities doesn't make "communist" ones any better. "We're" suppose to be better than that. Actual communism wouldn't need to commit atrocities
  
  Very well put, mirrors my feelings quite a bit.
- Tbh I thought the admins of Lemmy.World were being overzealous when they preemptively defederated from HexBear before we even had a chance to see what federating with them would be like, but from where it stands now I think they made the right call. It doesn't seem like anything of value was lost.
  Despite apparent assurances from the HB admin team that their users are to be on their best behavior outside of their echo chamber, it seems they just can't help themselves.
  
  Zookeeper insists the elephants will behave outside their enclosure
- Hexbear is what happens when kids (I hope they're all in their early 20s or teens, because otherwise this gets much sadder) spend years reading on leftist theory but have zero real world experience. They get intense, volatile, argumentative and have no idea how those points reflect on themselves and in reality. This is why they go around prancing those absurd beliefs and fencing anyone who disagrees out, while also dogpilling and swarming communities that don't agree: They only know what its like to be leftists in theory.
  The one person who made the """"""peace"""""" thread had an earlier post here in Blahaj saying that since working under capitalism is coercion then everyone who solicits sex workers is a rapist, and that's basically the level of being disconnected from reality that they operate in. Unfortunately for them, their echo chamber is going to go on and be the equivalent of a left wing /pol/. For us - and hopefully all other major instances - its a relief to be rid of such crowd.
  
  Hexbear is what happens when kids (I hope they’re all in their early 20s or teens, because otherwise this gets much sadder) spend years reading on leftist theory but have zero real world experience.
  Unfortunately that does not match my experience. Because Hexbear was a ChapoTrapHouse fan instance in the beginning (and still its largest community), most of these people are likely in their late 20s and older, because that is most of Chapo's fanbase (which rose to prominence in 2016).
  It somewhat reflects who the ChapoTrapHouse hosts are: They are all "nepo babies", a bunch of people who came from relatively wealthy or at least well off backgrounds. They are all white people from the upper crusty suburbs who love to tell you what they think socialism is supposed to be. And their audience isn't much different from them.
  
  It really feels like the people who grew up on 4chan and later came out as queer, but never learned how toxic that was
  
  The one person who made the “”“”““peace””“”“” thread had an earlier post here in Blahaj saying that since working under capitalism is coercion then everyone who solicits sex workers is a rapist
  That person isn't necessarily wrong. That's one of the reasons sex work is illegal in most jurisdictions, if I'm not mistaken.
- Everything is political. Not taking sides here, just confused that you don't like politics. If you've removed politics from your feed doesn't that mean you've removed all content?
  
  ...what? I think we are in two very different corners of the internet. I follow animal groups, hobbies, work related stuff, and art. None of that should have people screaming about politicians or voting or laws or anything related to politics. I can get all of that from informed sources like AP or Reuters, and when I'm done with the news for the day I'm done. My social media feeds have zero politics, which is why I didn't like hexbear users - they were injecting politics into my non political spaces.
  I'll vote when I can and protest when I can, but I don't want to doomscroll through a bunch of angry people when interacting with them has no personal or social benefit.

Haha.... They can deal out the punishment but they can't take it themselves... Thought so. Never in my life have I been called a slavery apologist, but 10 mins in hexbear was all I needed.
- Yeah, they've created their own little echo chamber of propaganda + bots and lost touch with the real world.
  
  It's beyond an echo chamber in there.
  It feels sort of like an isolated village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story.
  
  Blahaj isn't exactly frugal with defederation either. Or is an echochamber better if you call it "safe space"?
- Any level of nuance or logic is frown upon. Did you not make sure to say how evil America was in your post? That normally calms them down.

Well, look at that. The trash took itself out.
Indeed, fuck tankies.
- That was my thought too

Fuckin tankies, man...
- Fuck 'em.
  Fuck tankies.

reminder:
left-unity means authoritarian entryism
tolerance must function as a social contract, or not at all.
reject auth apologists.
- Authoritarian is a made up concept in order to make communism and fascism the same thing.
  
  the neck cares not the color of the boot
  
  This is the craziest fucking thing I've ever heard.
  
  No. I thought Hexbear was right wing at first because they were irrelevantly complaining about Hillary Clinton, using the word "lib" disparagingly (such as "dunking on libs"), and telling those that disagree with them to "get up against the wall".
  All authoritarian echo chambers sound the same.
  
  That's such a hot fucking take
  
  All political systems exist on some type of multi-dimensional spectrum. Left-right is just one axis, and kind of a made up one where they mean different things sometimes. The authoritarian axis is a real one, and fascism sits on the same end of that axis as so-called "communism". This doesn't make them equivalent, but it does mean that they both have some characteristics which are the same and bad. I'm fact, one could argue that their position on the authoritarian axis is all that you need to argue they are bad because authoritarianism is in itself the cause of so much human suffering.
  
  That's ridiculous, because communism is the opposite of authoritarianism. Communism is defined by Marx as classless and stateless. Whatever you think is just as authoritarian as fascism, it's not communism. Maybe you think state capitalism is communist and that's why you're confused.
- Thanks
- hey, I read this, and then I went out and engaged anyway, and I regret it. so thank you again for warning me
- I agree, this "left unity" BS is propaganda and it's wrong. True unity means making a space welcoming to everyone by kicking out intolerance. Left unity is created by deplatforming authoritarians and transphobes, and building systems that provide justice to the marginalised. Welcoming fascists and bigots means disunity, as much as they love to scream otherwise.

Reminds me of the often-told story of the punk bar bartender and nazis
based on @iamragesparkle;s tweets
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”
And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And i was like, oh,ok and he continues.
"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.
- That may be the best story I read all week. Thanks. Ha "and then he went back to ignoring me."

I have been so glad that Sync allows instance blocking at a client level. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, but after seeing 4 posts from their instance that were just in bad faith "but it's a joke". I went ahead and filtered them and luckily haven't had to see it.
- When I first saw some of their posts I thought that we'd federated with a right wing instance tbh.
  
  It really was incredible. I blocked and unblocked the instance three times, each time thinking I was overreacting, but finally just left it. There were some interesting discussions but it was absolutely drowned out each time by attention-seeking edge lords.
  
  Ya. Took me really sifting though posts to realize it wasn't right-wing. I came to the conclusion it was all trolls. Trolls I can ignore if it's silly fun like there pig poop thing but they where a bit much with the owning libs part. But then they where super defensive with their queer members so... I just left them be and laughed at their antics. Guess it's quiter round here now.
  
  Yes. They're right wing. Don't believe them when they say they're left wing. They're not.
- That helps, but it still doesn't block hexbear users from polluting threads on other instances.

ok il note to add fuck tankies to the sign on of a social home instance
- Certainly a vibe

Fuck hexbear. I don't know if they just didn't try to federate with pawb.social or if they got preemptively blocked (or maybe they went, "ew furries" and nothing of value was lost), but I'm very glad they aren't federated here. It means I only get exposed to them via comments, and the ones I tend to see don't shine a good light on the community, especially when they brigade instance meta posts.
- I switched from using Sync back to the Connect app because it allows blocking of entire instances. I got more than sick of the hexbear spam.
  
  Sync also has instance blocking feature. Though it's not perfect since it only blocks posts, you can still see comments from filtered instances. Hopefully it will improve in future

Drama is so exhausting.

I ended up filtering the whole instance. The users there are just so obnoxious

My best wishes to the Admins, the whole thing must have been exhausting and depressing. I purposefully stayed out of the entire discussion since I'm not a member of Blahaj. I think it's for the better, because I have read a lot in hexbear and the people there are absolute toxic and unhinged. The mentioned Lemm.ee thread was absolutely swarmed with people from hexbear. Like, 3/4 of the comments must have been them. Anyway, wish you all the best.

"you can't fire me, I quit!"
- "I'm leaving and you can't stop me!"
  "ok that was always allowed"
- Something something you're a frog.

I made an account on blahaj zone a while back. seeing hexbear posts on the all feed (coming from lemmy.world, they're nowhere) with a load of troll and straight up unhinged commenters was really off putting :/
- I have to be honest here, I’ve done a lot of my casual browsing the past week on my Lemmy.world account because of this. A lot of communities were just awash in the same three talking points that read like straight off Sputnik.

I like hexbear, but i suppose it comes down to a rather ... "abnormal" type of "liking".
There is definitely a pattern of asshole behavior from hexbear users, but they're fun to verbally spar with and they make Lemmy feel lively.
In the same way that capsaicin causes spicy food to be spicy by stimulating nerves that are intended to warn us of pain and injury while in fact it's actually harmless, I find hexbear's vociferous users to be endearingly abrasive.
Because turnabout is fair play, they're fair game to be rude to. By choosing to interact in a hostile nature, they are consenting to receive hostility. It's only fair. If they can't handle it, then they shouldn't be dishing it out. However, the exchange must be proportional and bigotry can not be allowed.
"Tankie" is not a slur any more than "Lib" is. If they honestly believe that it's socially acceptable to use "Lib" as an insult, then it's sheer hypocrisy to object to "Tankie". But all other known slurs, ableist slurs, sexist slurs, racial and ethnic slurs, are out of bounds and should be reported, and offenders ignored.
If they don't like this arrangement, then they have no business acting like they do outside of their instance and defederation may in fact be necessary.

Makes me happy to be on beehaw where we never had to deal with hexbear in the first place.
- Is that why I haven't heard of them before? I switch between Beehaw and Programming.dev and I just noticed them everywhere on the latter
  Politics aside, I find their comments to be callous, elitist, and rude. And I heard "a few bad apples" arguments but honestly it doesn't seem to be a few. All of their posts in my feed are aggressive. And have huge "look what this idiot dolt said before I owned him" energy
  If admins aren't willing to defederate then I'm happy Sync has an instance-wide block
  
  I think the best part about the "a few bad apples" stuff is most of the people using it as a defense leave off the latter half.
  A few bad apples spoil the bunch.
  Yeah it seemed like there may have been a few bad ones from Hexbear, but they never received push back from any other Hexbear users.
  I hope Jerboa adds instance wide blocking in the future, that sounds pretty nice. But I wonder how Sync does it under the hood.
  
  Sync doesn't block their comments though 😭
- While this was happening here, I was wondering how larger instances were handling the matter, especially Beehaw. In retrospect, however, it makes sense that they just defederated on sight since they're clearly more experienced and organized. Sadly Ada mostly has to do everything here, given the recent foundation of the instance.
  
  A couple of things. I've been community building and moderating for decades. This instance has also been running for 7 or 8 months now.
  I have plenty of experience.
  In this case, I hoped that it might work, because their admin that was my main line of communication with them also clearly wanted to make it work.
  There was never any certainty, and I was ok with that. We always have to try for queer solidarity. It's not always achievable, but it's always a goal
  
  Ada wanted to give them a chance because they’re very queer friendly, and we want to try to maintain queer unity and all.
- Isn't that the instance where you're not allowed to tell transphobes they're wrong?

I actually left lemm.ee because the sentiment there was anti-defederation. I don't regret it, my experience here has been far better without them.
- I just started using my .world alt for the same reason when my lemm.ee account use to be my main. Hexbear just made lemmy unusable for me. If I wanted to wade through Russian apologia and genocide denial I'd be on twitter.
- This is a healthy and reasonable take. Its 100% a design feature to change instances if you find one that aligns better with your preferences.
  Once you can pivot all your account preferences with a built in tool, along with instance blocking at a user level, I think lemmy is going be in a fantastic place.
- I don't think anti-defederation is a bad sentiment. Defederating is something that should be taken very seriously because it affects everyone in that instance. If it were up to me Hexbear would be defederated but Lemm.ee has users who, for whatever reason, want content from Hexbear. It wouldn't be fair for them to lose access just because I personally don't like them. Considering the functionality for users to block instances is already in the works I don't think defederating is necessary. It's annoying but I can suffer Hexbear a while longer until I can personally block the instance. I have them blocked in Connect for Lemmy so I already have the option to ignore them.

It didn’t help that the initial user thread about defederation, opened by someone who didn’t like their communities showing up in the All feed as if that is anything but expected, compared them to The_Donald right off the bat (and then remained one of the most vocal and prolific posters on this subject ever since). Prior to that opening salvo, their involvement here had been about 0% and primed the fuse for escalation.
But yeah, poor us.
I don’t even particularly like them, but the response over here had plenty of bad faith “she turned me into a newt!” vibes that were pretty uncool, especially from a few flame-stokers including that initial poster, and another who posted the same screenshot a half dozen times to represent what all of “them” think. It’s interesting to watch in real time how easy it is to decide who “they” are and what “they” think versus what “we” think, especially from a real-life community that often suffers gross generalization about what “they” are like when any individual member acts badly in larger society.
- This whole thing made me sad, because I feel like I've seen the worst of our community yet. I feel like there was a ton of toxicity and bad faith coming from both instances. I think it's probably for the best that we're defederated, because it's clear that there are fundamental incompatibilities here, but it didn't have to go this way.

This is a great summary, thanks for writing it up!

So people who get offended being called "lib" fought with people who get offended being called "tankie"?
And now there's... less meaningful discourse between libs and tankies than before? Somehow?
- I mean, technically, calling them tankies is wrong. They're not tankies, they're right wing as fuck.
  
  Maybe so. In which case this is all just right wingers provoking hostility towards leftism by insulting liberals. Sounds about right.

I do not have an opinion on the overall issue more complicated than defederation only makes sense in the most extreme of cases, but I take issue with your claim that there was a "demand" to remove the word tankie from the banner. I saw the message that was sent and it was not a demand, it was a polite request. Once again, I do not care at all about the overall issue, but if you're going to provide a summary, be accurate at least.

I see this as an absolute win for Blahaj

Congratulations, we're more welcoming of TERFs that go mask off after being called out than our fellow trans people.
Hope y'all are proud.

This user is still not banned despite multiple reports on many of their comments.
- Just to provide some clarification, many folk don't know that "hon" is used as a slur by transphobes. The reason it is used as a slur is because "hun" used to be a common term in the trans community, for newly out trans women to provide affirmation for each other, and it is still used naively by some folk who don't know the history
  The user you're debating appears to be the latter. I can find no indication of them being a TERF, a sock puppet or a transphobe. They appear to be a trans person, using the term without realising its history. For that reason, I sent them a message and asked them to drop the term, which they've done.
  
  That's...an incredibly weird way of being transphobic. Hon? Is that really something you can get mad over now?
  
  Awesome thanks

That's a terrible take, no one wanted to defederate, just the redditors that we all left reddit to get away from and now they're here causing drama again.
- What you're saying is misinformation. Huge factions of both communities desired defederation. Hexbear is a community that is years old. Not a new wave of reddit refugees.
- I was absolutely against defederating and am only poking my head in every once in a while now.
  The redditors that I left that site for are still here and they're concentrated in 196. I'm disgusted that we're okay with cis people telling trans people what is and isn't transphobic, I'm sick of chasers being normalized, I'm done with people having bad faith interpretations of my arguments and claiming I can't be from poverty or a POC just because I want real change in my country and for smaller countries around the world. (Which is the dumbest fucking possible interpretation)
  On that last point:
  
  Fuck the stupid ass respectability politics people play here, the next time some cumbrained fuck goes out of his way to let me or another trans person know he won't fuck us because of our genitals (Genital preferences exist and are valid yes, but I don't give a shit I will never fuck a cis man that trips over himself to let trans people know he doesn't want to have sex with them at any opportunity) I will say whatever I need to even if it gets me banned.
  
  As a communist, who does hold the desires you just drscrubed, there are often significant disagreements between what I desire politically and what someone who might be called a "tankie" desire. Generally around the application of political violence. Doesn't help that many Hexbears will make obtuse jokes that will go over my head or are only funny to those who get the reference.
  Your complaints are valid and I agree. I think you're even referencing a comment I made in response to that guy saying he's not a chaser. I wanted to give him just enough rope... as I'm not sure yet, but if he is a chaser he will soon reveal it again. Hexbear has done good to point out potential issues in blahaj zone, so thank you.
  I hate this post and poster you've screenshotted. I'm a vaush fan. He's priveleged as all fuck. I'm privileged. And yet, white people with free time are an asset to the cause.
  
  With all respect, most of the users on Mastadon and the Fediverse are white, same as what was on Reddit. When you look at the entire picture and all you see is white celebrity worship and white icons and white idols with no one of color being represented anywhere then you know you're in a white space, not a diverse one.
  Plus it's always been rather odd to me that whenever people of color show up in anything, especially entertainment related, there's always major criticism and scandal, but white people apparently are untouchable and can do no wrong and are 100% innocent, 100% charitable, 100% good little angels who are a benefit to mankind while people of color are just a nuisance I guess, no matter what we do it's never good enough
  And regarding the tankie thing, that's just nazi garbage coming over from reddit which is what I was talking about in my other post, they're fine with mass murdering innocent people with drones but then when you give them a taste back they call you a "tankie" because they're just fascists at the end of the day and hate being talked back to. Best to ignore people like that because they have no real beliefs

180 comments