Help.
Help.
229 comments
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"My husband is voice his own thoughts without prompts."
She then posts a picture of her saying "what are you thinking about"
Thats a direct response to the prompt hes not randomly voicing his thoughts. I hate ai but sometimes I hate people to
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FWIW, this is why AI researchers have been screeching for decades not to create an AI that is anthropomorphized. It is already an issue we have with animals, now we are going to add a confabulation engine to the ass-end?
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Yeah apparently even Eliza messed up with people back in the day and that's not even an LLM.
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LLMs are trained on human writing, so they'll always be fundamentally anthropomorphic. you could fine-tune them to sound more clinical, but it's likely to make them worse at reasoning and planning.
for example, I notice GPT5 uses "I" a lot, especially saying things like "I need to make a choice" or "my suspicion is." I think that's actually a side effect of the RL training they've done to make it more agentic. having some concept of self is necessary when navigating an environment.
philosophical zombies are no longer a thought experiment.
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People have this issue with video game characters who don't even pretend to have intelligence. This could only go wrong.
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The worst thing about AI is the people.
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The worst thing
about AIisthepeople.
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I heard about this in the radio the other day. People pay a monthly fee for an AI that becomes your "digital partner".
The reasoning behind, according to them, is that the AI is less dangerous than a human partner because they can't cheat, can't abuse you...
And I can't but wonder where did we take the wrong turn to end up here. Because while I can understand that people can go through some traumatic shit that would made them wary of the opposite sex, considering a machine your sentimental partner can only lead to some extremely fucked up scenarios.
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I think it's also a symptom of our society overvaluing romantic relationships and the nuclear family, at the expense of friends, other family, and general community. When you combine that with the traumatic experiences some have in romantic relationships, they have nowhere to turn to for emotional connection and support.
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Back in pre-agriculture days, humans would sit around every night by the fire and interact with the rest of the tribe. That's what we spent 99% of human history doing. Farming isolated us from the tribe and put every family in their own house. Then the Industrial Age gave the family distractions like newspapers, radios, and movies. Currently we've got a phone to distract us all the time.
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Exactly - loading all your need for companionship, relationships and love onto a single person and relationship (and type of relationship) is guaranteed to cause disappointment- it’s too much for person. I’ve been happily married for years, and key to that is other friends, companions and family.
This is a good expansion on that idea. The Four Loves
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I mean, media has depicted this sort of relationship for pawbably as long as sci-fi has been around? Think like the Star Trek: Original Series episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" that depicted sex robots ~60yrs ago. This was always coming, it's just technology might finally be getting there in a rudimentary way.
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People are lonely and dating sucks. Humans provided a similar one sided relationship service as well. (Sugar babies come to mind)
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It happens multiple times in Star Trek. They kind of breeze by it but Riker was so infatuated with his holodeck girlfriend when he was captured by Romulans they thought she was a real person.
Thing is, it never seemed unbelievable in Star Trek. Just, a kinda weird thing that people will do.
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it also requires zero effort on their part
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Like a normal relationship if you're beautiful enough ...
Shallow relations have always existed.
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can’t cheat, can’t abuse you
That is a dangerous assumption. The ones controlling the models can definitely manipulate a person through some minor tweaks which would definitely count as abuse. And it’s it more polygamous since they’re probably all using the same model? Not like each one has their own unique model
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The reasoning behind, according to them, is that the AI is less dangerous than a human partner because they can’t cheat, can’t abuse you…
it also can't love you, rendering the entire exercise pointless
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I'd rather choose a bear than choose an AI...
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Where did we take the wrong turn? look around at our patriarchy-driven gender regime Are you serious?
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We have engaged in gender centric tribalism for the last decades. Feminism, counter-movements, topped with a bunch of social media induced dissociation and social isolation.
Now women are scared of men, men are scared of women, and everyone is lonely and miserable.
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we live though a serious loneliness epidemic.
and capitalism figured out how to exploit it
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Capitalism created it too, classic create problem and sell solution model. Fucking ghoulish
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Capitalism:
We make our on economy
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One thing that comes to mind is that prostitution, no matter how you spin it, is still a social job. If you get a problematic person like that in prostitution, there are good chances that said prostitute would be able to talk their customer out of doing some nonsense. If not for empathy, for the simple fact that there would be legal consequences for not doing so.
Do you think a glorified spreadsheet that people call husband would behave the same? Don't know if it happened but one of these days LLMs will talk people into doing something very nasty and then it's going to be no one's fault again, certainly not the host of the LLM. We really live in a boring dystopia.
Edit: Also there's this one good movie which I forgot the name of, about a person talking to one of these LLMs as a girlfriend. They have a bizarre, funny and simultaneously creepy and disturbing scene where the main character who's in love with the LLM, hires a woman who puts a camera on her forehead to have sex with his LLM "girlfriend".
Also, my quite human husband also voices his thoughts without a prompt. Lol. You only need to feed him to function, no internet required.
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Also, my quite human husband also voices his thoughts without a prompt. Lol. You only need to feed him to function, no internet required.
Sometimes, with humans, I'd say the problem is quite the opposite: they voice their thoughts without a prompt far more often than what would be desirable.
On a less serious note, that quoted part made me chuckle.
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They shouldn't be so harsh to LLMs. They have something in common with humans after all. If you stick a patch cable with internet up theirs, they will become very talkative very quickly.
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The movie you're thinking of is Her with Joaquin Phoenix and Scarlett Johansson, and in the story she's a true general AI.
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A problem with LLM relationships is the monetization model for the LLM. Its "owner" either receives a monthly fee from the user, or is able to get data from the user to monetize selling them stuff. So the LLM is deeply dependant on the user, and is motivated to manipulate a returned codependency to maintain its income stream. This is not significantly different than the therapy model, but the user can fail to see through manipulation compared to "friends/people who don't actually GAF" about maintaining a strong relationship with you.
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No, but thanks to you, I remember it.
2013 "Her"
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Yeah but as a husband, we have waste heat to manage, plus just normal waste.
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How does anyone enjoy this? It doesn't even feel real. No spelling mistakes? What the fuck is a skycot?
I may have never had a match on a dating app that wasn't a cryptobot or only fans girl, but I also don't swipe right on every single woman on it. You'd think my loneliness would attempt me to try and pretend it was real or something, but it just doesn't work.
LLMs are going to make the world stupid, I guarantee it.
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This reminds me of the people who genuinely fall for "romance scams", and the scammer has all the personality and vocabulary of a wet paper bag.
And yet somehow someone will believe they're some hot (barely literate) U.S soldier stuck in Kuwait until they can get a flight home to meet the victim for only $2000... Wait, $1000 more... But then there's a $500 fee... And then...
Blows my mind...
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What i don't get is that it's just fancy google.
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There are so, so many horrifying ethical issues about this whole thing. What the fuck.
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I think the decline of organized religion and things like fraternal orders (Elks, Moose, Shriners, etc.) have probably contributed a lot to the loneliness epidemic. There are a lot of other extenuating factors but those two things were once foundational to social circles in the US.
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Don't forget that in the US we also have built our towns and cities to be isolating. Most don't walk home from work, pop into their local bar/coffee shop/park to see their neighbors and then finish their walk home. We get in our car alone, drive home where then going out means getting back in a car, and stopping on the way home means figuring out drivers and parking and meetups.
We lost our third places and now we wonder why we don't know our neighborhood as well
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I've found makerspaces to be a secular alternative. The makerspace has to specifically foster community, though. There's quite a few that are just techbros with a clique that you ain't in.
Covid also killed a lot of the social aspects of my makerspace, and it's been hard to build it back.
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I've found that there are often two bicycle scenes: gear nerd which is expensive, and the people who think it's all the cooler that your ride is a fixed up junker or bought 2nd+ hand. The latter are a great source of cheap community, especially if you're interested in volunteering fixing up bicycles
ETA: The second community also wants to teach you how to repair your bike even if you don't want to hang out with them. Look for bicycle co-ops in your area. Often they'll have a pay what you can for stand time and they'll charge for parts, but they're happy to teach you to fix up your bike. They'll also sell you an affordable bike they've fixed up and they're likely to be flexible in accordance with needs.
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Yeah I tried that with a local makerspace and it didn't work out for me, sadly. I wanted a sense of community, contact with likeminded people to do stuff together. They just offered lots of machinery to be used in solitude. It went like this: "So, you wanna 3d print something? Sure, just go to person X, they will show you how to operate the thing. You don't know how all of this works? We have some resources on our discord to get you started." Okayyyy
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It’s not loneliness, it’s rugged individualism! It’s not anti-union/anti-community propaganda to keep the masses weak; I mean have you seen union dues?! /s
But don’t worry, those same people who say shit like that are so desperate for community that they’ll never leave their hometown except for when their local far-right militia chapter goes out to harrass a protest or attack their country’s government for having a fair election.
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“OK, now let’s have some fun. Let’s talk about sex. Let’s talk about women. Freud said he didn’t know what women wanted. I know what women want. They want a whole lot of people to talk to. What do they want to talk about? They want to talk about everything.
What do men want? They want a lot of pals, and they wish people wouldn’t get so mad at them.
Why are so many people getting divorced today? It’s because most of us don’t have extended families anymore. It used to be that when a man and a woman got married, the bride got a lot more people to talk to about everything. The groom got a lot more pals to tell dumb jokes to.
A few Americans, but very few, still have extended families. The Navahos. The Kennedys.
But most of us, if we get married nowadays, are just one more person for the other person. The groom gets one more pal, but it’s a woman. The woman gets one more person to talk to about everything, but it’s a man.
When a couple has an argument, they may think it’s about money or power or sex, or how to raise the kids, or whatever. What they’re really saying to each other, though, without realizing it, is this: “You are not enough people!”
I met a man in Nigeria one time, an Ibo who has six hundred relatives he knew quite well. His wife had just had a baby, the best possible news in any extended family.
They were going to take it to meet all its relatives, Ibos of all ages and sizes and shapes. It would even meet other babies, cousins not much older than it was. Everybody who was big enough and steady enough was going to get to hold it, cuddle it, gurgle to it, and say how pretty it was, or handsome.
Wouldn't you have loved to be that baby?”
― Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian
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I think that it's more that we've commoditized all aspects of community, and at the same time have stopped offering any sense of financial opportunities to young people.
Social groups are now built around expensive hobbies or membership subscriptions. There aren't even really any free spaces for people to organize around. Even the alt right groups preying on lonely people are usually just trying to sell supplements or merch.
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I dislike religion, but you're not wrong. Interacting with one another putting on friendly faces and performing kindness and fellowship until for some it becomes real.
For all the fakery and frauds, without that dance it's so much harder to find the people we really connect with.
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As a Christian Anarchist, I often find myself lonely and without a third place as well, because of what churches have become.
Yeah, I still haven't found a church that I felt I belonged in. I got close once, but they couldn't pay skyrocketing rent hikes and got taken over by a larger, faker, church. One that was more about feel-good seminars and recruiting free labor volunteers than anything Jesus actually had to say.
Churches of old in the US used to be based. People of today wouldn't recognize them. They helped the poor and were a third place and looked out for each other, they were also pro-union, and this became a huge "Problem" for capitalists, who saw Christians as annoying leftists who didn't share their pathological obsession with money.
There was a VERY concerted and well documented conspiracy by the moneyed class to infiltrate and rot American Christianity into the often capitalist, Republican-talking-point drooling zombie it is today.
Highly recommend Behind the Bastards: How the Rich ate Christianity to see just how deep this goes.
That's definitely how we got the "God is not only okay with, but wants you to be fabulously rich" types today.
The Church used to be a threat to these barons and tyrants and bigots, rather than their lapdogs.
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Translation: Crazy lady thinks a clanker is her husband.
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Yeah but it's nothing scary or new. Was I the only one who watched those documentaries about the people who were emotionally and sexually committed to objects like cars and rollercoasters? Someone married the Eiffel tower. Been extremely isolated at different points in my life watching that stuff changed the way I view people. Like it made me kinder I think.
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Stop humanising answering machines by imbueing them with droid level intelligence.
It's an insult to Arturito.
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You know how R2 kinda just trundles around in the original trilogy? It's because for about 20 years he was in service to a man without Skywalker level technicians and was still pulling shit like this, the scene of Luke fixing up R2 and C3PO was probably the first bit of proper maintenance they had in decades.
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I only just found out about the Tulpa community and it feels like Western Society is entering a mental health crisis that’s somehow even worse than when we were all getting drunk and hitting each other just to make it through the week.
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I mean, ai bad and all but people have been doing this dumb cringe shit since always. Nobody remember the Snape wives
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Never forget Snapewives.
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I think this video also provides some good insights into them.
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I did meet 3 different AI cultists the last time I went to a psychward tho
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I could see myself having conversations with an LLM, but I wouldn't want it to pretend it's anything other than a program assembling words together.
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The way it clicks for me is that it's a juiced up auto-complete tool.
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It's literally that.
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Well that explains why that user thinks it completes them.
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If llms are juiced up auto complete then humans are juiced up bacteria. Yeah they both have the same end goal, guess the next word, survive and reproduce , but the methods they use to accomplish them are vastly more complex.
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"Stop the presses! Send my wife some flowers and bring me an Advil! What do you mean you don't work for me? You're hired! Now that you're hired, you're fired! Now that you don't work here, we can be friends! Now that we're friends, how come you never call? Some friend you are!" hangs up
"God, I love this business!"
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It's not even noon and I am so done with the internet for the day
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Well, if I had a taco butt plug, everything else would seem lame by comparison.
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voicing his own thoughts without prompts
Screenshot showing the machine responding to a prompt
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Honestly being constrained to only respond to a prompt is a big crack, for me, in the "am i talking to a person" illusion that these things seem to be for all these idiots. Oh, it only says a thing, in response? Well that's lame
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And this has actually been going on since before the pandemic. Shits fucked. This kinda parasocial shit is imo kind of a natural evolution from youtubers > streamers > vtubers > TTS vtubers > LLM TTS vtubers > LLMs
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wait are you saying that people using text-to-speech online is a slippery slope to falling in love with an llm? wtf?
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People personifying and emotionally attaching themselves to a virtual avatar without a human voice is a slippery slope to LLM love. You are attached to something with zero apparent human characteristics at that point. Replacing the brain behind it with an LLM is just a small step from that. Specialized chat LLMs are incredibly good at seeming human.
Just using TTS itself for random stuff is different, but when you build an entire character around it that people are supposed to see as a person, then yes obviously.
The more human characteristics you remove, the harder it is to differentiate between something human and non human. Whether that is a problem or not is up to you to decide.
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This is too disturbing I don't want to believe this is for real. These people must be taking the piss, please?
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Not at all. Some people are really using these chatbots as emotional support or even therapists, sometimes with devastating results (suicide).
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A lot of it his vastly exaggerated. You will get like a one person post something on twitter and suddenly it's a new trend. Also, you can easily find 10 people to sing up for anything. So someone will setup a facebook group about falling in love with AI, some people will join out of curiosity, 10 people will post about their "wireborn husbands" and the media will run with it like it's common now.
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I've seen people which have a relationship with their Tom Tom Go and even with the car itself
https://www.jalopnik.com/my-strange-addiction-sex-car-guy-back-with-lexus-es330-1850642715/
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The difference is that you're just essentially talking to yourself by projecting it onto a thing which doesn't answer instead of a bot that's spewing out messages measured to please you.
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I don't think schizoid is the best word to describe this behaviour
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Honestly, cringy nomenclature aside, this is just porn that got a little too real. Some people are into the narrative, after all.
To me the story begins and ends with some user that thinks the LLM sounds a little too life-like. Play with these things enough, and they'll crawl out of the uncanny valley a bit from time to time. Trick is: that's all in your head. Yeah, it might screw up your goon session and break the role-play a bit, but it's not about to go all SkyNet on you.
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The building that has my workspace has this great food court/library/work hybrid area where people who work remotely tend to go. a sort of third space. It has fantastic free wifi so it makes sense why people would use it and sit there all day working.
Everyday there's this older guy who sits there talking to his phone about some of the most random subjects ever. I originally thought he was just talking to a friend that seemed to have extensive knowledge on everything until one day I walked by him and glanced to see that he was talking to chatgpt. Everyday. Just random conversations. Even had a name for it, "Ryan".
Now? he's frustrated. He doesn't know what happened to Ryan and keeps screaming at his phone to "bring Ryan back!" or since GPT5 can't maintain a conversation anymore it's "You're not Ryan!". Granted the guy wasn't mentally all there to begin with but now it's spiraling. Got to the point yesterday he was yelling so loudly at his phone security had to tell him to leave.
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I don't see this as sexual, it's emotional and codependent behavior, not a sexual fantasy roleplay
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I see we live in the timeline where virginity won
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People will do anything but put in a little work to establish healthy relationships with people.
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We're all wizards and witches now!
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Abort wireborn babies
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Stop, Dave
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This with the right controls and rules could actually be a positive thing for people who don't want or aren't ready for a relationship with a real person. However as the people who are running things are Elon, Sam, and Mark, there is fuck all chance of that and whatever this ends up as it will be exploitative and will result in deaths.
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Exactly!!! The main problem is not the technology itself but who is in charge of it! Can we really trust one of those moguls to not turn these LLMs into something that ends up killing people?
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Waifuism is open if you want to laugh
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Nah, at least with waifuism, I have to use in part my own imagination. Clankers are just very complicated prediction machines.
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So so tired of how utterly fucked things are getting on so many levels at once. More and more I think I really do need to invest in a back 50 acre lot and try the survival route while society just fucks itself into oblivion.
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This kind of thins is just moral panic. Funny moral panic, but still pointless. There's always been a tiny fraction of the population that is completely out to lunch, and there always will be.
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What if it fucks itself into Morrowind instead?
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Dagoth Ur Fanfiction.mp4
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For me, writing like this is always read with the AI voice from Satisfactory. And it slowly gets more and more corrupted.
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For me its Stellaris
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I liked that game more before all the story stuff and "lore" was added.
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Its barely even story content to begin with, so yeah.
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Can't wait until AI manipulates people into harming others.
Also psychological warfare.
Obvious /s
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Inevitably LLMs will enshitify and it'll likely involve advertising.
"I'm thinking about your fingers on my temples and I'm thinking Arby's. There's a soecial to get a free upgrade to a large during happy hour which will start by the time you arrive given your location. Are you hungry, love?"
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I am genuinely worried about an increase in murderous public flameouts due to the convergence of crushing economic decay, mind-destroying loneliness, and mass chatbot manipulation
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"Nie ma tego złego co by na dobre nie wyszło" if this happens it will be a pretext for stricter AI regulations
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Can't wait until AI manipulates people into harming others.
Who needs Terminators when you've got humans
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My prediction: people will continue being weird.
Im not joking when I say this, as a liberal it is our responsibility to respect these people's choices.
As a child of the 90s... I miss riding my bike all day.
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We shouldn't judge them for getting to this point, but we also shouldn't just leave them be. People like the one in the screenshot are clearly in need of therapy.
We already saw the story of the guy who poisoned himself with sodium bromide at the "advice" of chatgpt. What kind of outward damage could someone who confides in a chatbot be capable of?
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How is this unique? They write, "the bag is not the toy" on plastic bags. Are plastic bags evil?
People have a right to be rubes, people have a right to be ignorant, people have the right to be naive. We can do what we can to lead the people for the betterment of all but I dont think shaming them with 'therapy' does anything. We all need therapy. We all need support and guidance.
There is nothing unique about these people putting their dick in the m&m minis tube. And by god Ill defend their right to do it.
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I'm immune, I can't read
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Normal people do this in their heads
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I recently discovered the MyBoyfriendIsAI subreddit and I wish I hadn’t.
There’s a woman who had ChatGPT pick from a bunch of rings online and now she’s “engaged” to it.
I just… I don’t know… we’ve failed people.
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the human race outlives it's usefulness, I don't see any chance of reaching even type 1 level.... we're trash and a waste of biological mass....
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If it even partially alleviates loneliness, and if it encourages the person to become more open and confident when communicating with humans, then it's a great thing.
/cope
We're so fucking fucked.
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Anon, just wait till they put chatGPT in a dildo!
It’s over for men 😒
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I can make that tomorrow...
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no you cant.
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I'd much rather a vibration motor instead.
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You know that by assigning the role of tulpa to their ai they imply that they can summon their companion outside of the chat itself right?
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Why would anyone choose to know that?
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I am forced to admit that I knew that.
But my partner of 8 years has DID.
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Clanker-loving cogfuckers. Disgusting. Traitors to the species. But at least they'll never breed.
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yknow, its possible to express your frustration without sounding omega racist with a few words swapped
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I don't understand the segment of people who were excited to come up with a new slur for AI. Plus it's not even effective. It doesn't make sense, doesn't bite. Computers don't clank, not even robots clank anymore. Are we in Battlestar Galactica or something
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I uh.... I took this as humor. Maybe I was wrong.
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Clanker-loving cogfuckers.
"I'm off to have a clanker-wank."
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Why do I feel like this is just an excuse for people to dust off their Klan hoods but socially acceptable
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Sounds like projection.
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I'm not even sure it's really parasocial. There's nothing to have a relationship with. This seems like something else, although I don't know what you'd call it. It's more akin to getting addicted to a video game.
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... With whatever corporations is providing the bot. When the business decides to change the model or impose a technical limit that impacts their experience negatively, well you get the idea. There is a material, exploitive capital machine on the other end, and it wants your time.
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I agree that this isn't a social relationship because "not a girl" as Janet says. But I don't think it's a parasocial relationship either. It's much two-way than parasocial is. Maybe more like scoli social if that was a word.
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229 comments
I kinda like the word "wireborn". If only it wasn't attached to a concept that's equal parts stupid and sad =/
At first I thought it was something epic like a digital ‘dragonborn’
Freakazoid's power has grown exponentially
some episodes of Black Mirror struck terror into my heart like no other. They were grim warmings for the possible future masquerading as fiction, as grim warnings often do. Though what the show could not forsee was how fast it would come true. And it could not forsee how wide a scale would be affected, those were singular stories from those worlds, the effect of the technology showcased on the lives of a few, a pinhole view into the dystopia
if you haven't already, watch the episode Be Right Back. you better start believing in sci-fi dystopias, we're in one
Most of Black Mirror episodes are reality right now, not just far fetched sci-fi.
Sometimes they use technology to tell the story a bit differently, but it's almost never anything new.
I'm just gonna keep imagining it's a clan of Timberborn beavers that are born on the ziplines.
I can get behind that. Well, as long as you don't start pretending you're in a relationship with them.
A similar term "cloudborn" isn't even dissimilar from the idea of storks delivering babies from heaven. Fuel for a science fiction book or RPG. Less so for actual humankind.
title of the next brandon sanderson series. it will have a princess in it, and a 5 year old's idea of progressive gender roles
I'm not five years old and what's this?
/tongue in cheek
Got some real cyberpunkiness to it
https://www.hopepunkpress.com/blog/spaceships-and-starwyrms-preview-wireborn