Memes @lemmy.ml

2y ago

Windows compatibility is insane!

96 comments

25 year old Windows programs work better in Linux with wine than in Windows 🤣
- Wine is the most stable ABI on Linux 😂
- it got so extreme i installed wine on wsl to run a few old programs because windows 11 dropped support for some libraries
  
  That's absolutely hilarious and I don't doubt it for a second.

What a fuckin lie. Can't play some Windows 7 games on Windows 10 or above but on Linux it works.
- I will always remember Battle For Middle Earth working first try on Linux after spending hours fighting with it on Windows
  
  That game is a classic.

Linux gang has entered the chat
- Linux:
  User: Can you install this 50 year old program?
  Linux: it's already installed
  
  User: Linux can you install this software from this ancient obscure operating system?
  
  Grep is from 1973 so yeah.
  
  No you can't because the dependency doesn't exit anymore.
- Tfw compatibility for some old Windows programs and games is better in Wine than in modern Windows
- Most people will need internet connection to Google specific commands to run or install the most trivial things, and it won't always work depending on what distro you're using. Oh you're using MX Linux? Goodluck downloading a Plex client installer and just clicking it to install. Maybe use Snap but then good luck creating a shortcut with just a right click.
  Limux won't replace Windows anytime soon, not if even enthusiasts need to Google almost everything.
  
  Bold of you to think I'd install a Plex client when I can just stream video in my terminal with mplayer in glorious ASCII.
  And why would you search the internet when there's a manual built right in?

In my experience, Windows can install a 25 year old program, but it won't work

Windows is def better than Mac for backwards compatibility, but nah dude it's not even close to perfect. Ive had better luck using wine for old windows programs

GNU/Linux:
Can I install this 20yo software?
Is already installed.
- Can I install this 20yo software?
  user is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported
  SUDO Can I install this 20yo software?
  Is already installed.
  
  You guys are awesome!
- If you do echo "3 6 * p" | dc in a terminal it'll give you the result of 3x6, but the dc part of that is software that was written probably between 1969 and 1971.
  
  That is crazy and cool! Thanks!
- there is nothing to do
- how about this driver for an obscure 20yo laptop's touchpad?
  already installed
  
  Had this exact scenario with an old flatbed scanner. No win10 drivers and it never had mac drivers. Ran without issue in up to date Mint.
  
  Actually once recently I had problems because the wifi driver (b43) for the Dell Latitude D505 (2004) wasn't in the live Boot environment (cause un-free).
- Old Linux software usually has to be completed from source anyway (uhh the effort) which essentially makes it future proof
- I know it’s a même but Linux isn’t that good for running old app that have a user interface. Old command line interface works perfectly but that’s mostly for developer.
  windows make it available to everyone.
  It’s one of the few things windows does better, might as well recognize it.
  
  Old command line interface works perfectly but that’s mostly for developer.
  No. I'm comfortable with command line tools, and I'm far from being a developer. People used DOS etc. as well without being developers.
- Well, unfortunately there are sw inside windows that are even older

More like "Installing... Do you want avast or X or Y installed along with it?" No thanks, I very much prefer Linux package managers.

The third panel of that is LINUX: Can you install this 25 year old program?
It was already installed on there.
- Cat is so old it should be dead by now... Guess it's got nine lives 😅

Gonna be honest, this isn't my experience, a lot of stuff just doesn't work on Windows anymore
I can get those same programs to work fairly easily on linux though using Wine/Proton
- After all, wine is the most stable abi on Linux

"Can you run on this 20 y/o piece of hardware?"
Linux: "hold my beer!"
- Only if you use 15 years old distribution. Linux actually drops support of older hardware faster than Windows, it just doesn't happen consistently. Old drivers are maintained by volunteers so if someone wants to spend their free time on a driver for 25 years old hardware then it will work. But the moment that single developer disappears or stops caring then this driver is booted from the kernel fast. Supporting old hardware isn't the goal of Linux unless someone make it their goal (and core developers don't care either way as long as it's not their job).
  
  I mean, tons of old drivers are on the repositories of major distros, you just have to install them. Just because it's not in the kernel as pre-configured doesn't mean you can't just add it.
  
  That's never been my experience in the slightest.
  
  Ah, jeez, it was just a joke.

And yet somehow, it's also complete garbage. I've tried installing win10 while having 11 drives connected to my system. Guess what, the win10 installer can't count past 10, so instead of installing to drive 11 like it should have, it installed to drive 1. Because no one would ever use more than 10 drives in their system I guess. Drive 1 was my current OS and got nuked hard, even my backups couldn't get it to work again.
- Yeah Windows compatibility is both amazingly impressive and complete garbage.
  Need to run something from 1992? Sure! No problem!
  Need to run something from 2021? Sorry, no compatibility for that old API.

Not my experience. I've had multiple old games and an old printer that just straight up didn't work under Windows. On Linux however (using wine for the windows exe's) it usually does run. Sometimes it does require some googling, but there's usually someone who tried it before.
- Games are actually the hardcore compatibility test. They are much less compatible than the average piece of software. That's due to them using much more of the hardware/low-level-APIs of the OS, but also due to DRM and Anti-Cheat-Software (where applicable).
  And printers are also (for some reason) super difficult. Probably because they are cheap, planned-obsolescence pieses of crap hardware, which are chock-full of DRM.
- Shouldn't window's compatibility mode solve most of those?
  
  Should, yes, but I find it often doesn't.

I hear a lot about Windows backwards compatibilyty, but i don't think it has ever actualy worked for me. Every time i tried to install a program meant for anything older then win7/win10 i get some cryptic error and end up using a VM.

Sadly exactly that is the reason that windows is just a bunch of spaghetti code XD
- What is spaghetti code? (Sorry am non coder)
- And yet, Linux tools are even older and the kernel better written than either Windows or OSX.

Linux, can you install this 70 year old program? It's already running, bro

Yeah it sure can install these programs but thei'll either run like dogshit or not at all.

if that's the case why do I still have to support XP as some shop floor measurement device still uses software from that, and support window 7 for the database of greases.
then the windows 10 to windows 11 project is taking 6months planning of impact assessments. Before we even have our first gold image
(pretty sure if we had let them the tool planning dept would still be running their windows 3.1 lotus suite
- Holy run-on sentence. Also it sounds like it's the measuring device that doesn't support newer the newer OS, not the other way around. Also migrating a database is possible, it just takes a ton of work.

Do current Windows versions even start anything that was compiled for pre-Vista? I thought they don't?
- Yes, you can start almost all 32 bit software in Windows 11.
- Yes. It's 16bit app support for win3.1/95 stuff that ran in the DOS layer that's depreciated, but even then they'll sometimes run.
  
  We still have some ridiculous genetics algorithm running inside dosbox, of all things, in an App-V virtual environment deployed across a farm of hundreds of Citrix servers running inside various VMware hosts and published up to some geneticist freaks at the hospital I look after.
  It's absolutely insane...

also the reason you can still find a dialogue window from like Win95 lol, people often whine how Windows doesn't look as pretty as MacOS, but I think that's just the price for crazy backwards compatibility.
if they remove those old elements, I'd bet people are gonna rage about how their old games or software no longer work.
- Actually, a lot of games arent really working that great on Windows either, Windows 7 games tend to not work at all sometimes.
  A lot of companies still use Windows XP and 7 for their programs. Seems like Windows is really backward compatible (it isn't)

I have to send files from my Mac to my PC in order to get them printed cause my old printer's driver won't work with the newer MacOS but they work fine on windows 11.
- Printer support is hard mode for the IT support crew. An old printer is a minor miracle if you have working drivers.

This has been a great boon to me. Whenever Apple upgrades Mac OS, I check my regional equivalent to craigslist for cheap music gear that stops working. Has worked twice for me. I got a really nice 24 channel audio interface for 20 bucks.

Yes, install your 25-year-old software on your 30-year-old NTFS filesystem (it's that old).
EDIT: I just looked it up and NTFS turns 30 on July 27th, 2023 LOL
- Weren't they working on some database-like replacement for it a while ago?

While not confirmed (AFAIK), it's likely we went from Windows 8 straight to 10. With 95/98 being so similar, it wasn't rare for software to recognize it by looking for "Windows 9" in the OS name.

Maybe so, but all that spaghetti code to ensure the backwards compatibility comes at a cost of endless Windows jank.
I use both Windows and Mac machines for my audio work and while everything is consistently just 'plug and play' on my Mac, on the PC side I'm constantly fighting a losing battle with Windows ASIO audio driver issues, multi-monitor issues, Microsoft constantly asking me to make an account every 3 days...
For gaming, I love Windows. Still yet to find anything it does better and with less fuss than MacOS in a work environment though.

Windows after launching the exe: Monitor flickers, mouse freezes and here is free blue screen!

My dosbox and multiple attempts to build VMs of windows 3.1 say this isn't completely true
- Man, I hate to break it to you, but the Windows version from 25 years ago is... Windows 98.
  I know, I know. I'm so sorry. I felt like that when I noticed, too.
  
  Win98 software also do not work reliably on modern Windows. Microsoft abandoned that kind of compatibility a while ago for a mix of both good and bad reasons.
  You will have better odds of running it on ReactOS or Linux.
  
  Buddy. Buddy, please shut the hell up :')
  
  Wait, that can't be true... Oh crap it is. I feel extra old now.
  
  What did I ever do to you for you to hurt me in this way?

I tried to install Civilization 2 from a CD on Windows 10. It didn't work.
- there's workaround but it's a pain in the ass... https://www.myabandonware.com/game/sid-meier-s-civilization-ii-453
  basically
  the game use old .bin disk file, you must convert it to .iso
  mount the .iso
  run the setup.exe to install Civilization II
  
  I'm unsure if this is doable with Windows, but when using wine there's a simple workaround for this:
  https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=4849
  Mostly it boils down to copy the whole civ2 directory as-is.

That's because somewhere deep inside every x64/x86 compatible processor is an 8086 from 1980. The architecture has more or less remained the same for 40 years with more and more shit piled on top.
You can literally still natively boot DOS from a floppy on a modern PC if you can get it to recognize and boot from a USB floppy drive and it has legacy boot enabled. You wont get very far without drivers for anything, but you'll get to the command prompt.
- Ideas for a new platform are still out there: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/envisioning-future-simplified-architecture.html
- More than that tho, windows aims to preserve library compatibility with older software.
  It's common for older games for Mac on the same architecture to break or become uninstallable on newer OS versions.
  Edit: Fun rabbit hole time! Windows XP had a specific patch to allow Legoland to play with improper coding that was only removed in Windows 10 https://youtu.be/MToTEqoVv3I

For real. We run windows server R 2008 or something at work, never update it. Works like a dream with our other less ancient servers
- Thaat can't possibly be secure... or can it?
  
  It'll depend entirely on whether it's connected to any kind of externally available network.
  Even airgapped, it's just asking to be hacked.
- @printerjammed Simply put, this is bad for so many reasons. Since you're likely going to reject any direct reasons why this is bad, I'll give you an analogy.
  I'm going to take "and never update it" almost literally and assume you guys haven't installed security patches since you first installed it, or stopped at some point long ago.
  You're essentially driving a 15 year old car that hasn't had an oil change, brakes changed, or tires changed. There are known MAJOR safety recalls on the seat belts, airbags, and seats. You have refused to take your car in for free servicing under the recall and basically said, "It's working fine now. It's not worth the hassle scheduling an appointment at the mechanic. I'll take my chances."
  But hey, "The car still gets me around and fits in my garage" you smugly think to yourself. "Why should I do anything different? It's MY car and I'm only endangering myself here."
  Nope. Your car is endangering everyone else on the road. Bad brakes and tires are major risks for everyone around you. You can easily lose control and hurt or kill others on the road.
  Bad seats, seat belts, and airbags means that occupants of your vehicle (your companies clients) can be injured or killed if they fail. Even if only YOURS fails, well...you're the driver. Also, if you do crash and your seat belt fails, you're now a projectile in the car and can injure or kill other passengers. I've seen this happen too many times as a firefighter and an EMT. Unseatbelted occupants are an enormous hazard.
  Suffice to say your company is a vector for major attacks and vulnerabilities that not only will affect you, but your clients and potentially countless others who have nothing to do with your company since your server could be part of a botnet for all you know.
  "bUt We HaVe OtHeR sEcUrItY cOnTrOlS aNd PrOpEr PrOtOcOlS fOr...." I'm going to cut you off here and straight up say: No. You don't. The fact you still have Windows Server 2008 installed and refuse to even update it tells me enough about your entire IT department and policies.
  @snixyz
- That's... not great

I'm playing first Doom (yeah that Doom from 1993) on my laptop with Win 10
- To be fair a pc playing doom isn't that impressive. That game runs on litterally everything
  
  Thinking like that is how I bricked my blender.

Oh look, OP never used a Mac but he’s hating on it.

96 comments