2y ago

Capitalism is Still the Problem

www.counterpunch.org

Counterpunch.org

Socialism @lemmy.ml

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2y ago

Capitalism is Still the Problem

www.counterpunch.org /2023/08/18/capitalism-is-still-the-problem/

44 comments

We know.

Downvotes and yet no comments with criticisms of the link's arguments.
- This relationship between employers and workers (the bourgeoisie and the working class when writ large) is one of the essential elements of capitalism. -- article
  Capitalism requires the bourgeosie to exist, since it requires private ownership. But the relationship between them and workers is absolutely fundamentally irrelevant to capitalism, which I suspect the author knows.
- It's a book review not an article with an argument to make. The concluding paragraph makes no claims:
  "This book isn’t a book of answers; it is a book of questions and discussion resulting from those questions. The only certainty one might derive when they have finished reading it is that the only chance we have in defeating the ongoing march towards greater catastrophe wrought by human subjugation to capital is to be found in the struggle against capitalism and in organizing that struggle."

What a poorly written article. Why make the reader go over the author's grandstanding on his Marx knowledge in paragraph 1 only to have paragraph 2 point out his article is actually just a book review.
- You don’t like books?
  
  I like books. I actually like Nancy Fraser, I've taken 2 classes from her in the past on Marx and Habermas. But I don't understand why this is in the politics sub, and why the "article" doesn't accurately position itself as a book review:
  Rule 2: Must be articles relevant to US political news. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed.

I'm so sick of this nonsense.
Capitalism is the greatest generator of wealth ever created. The problem isn't the system generating the wealth. The problem is how we DISTRIBUTE the wealth that has been generated.
Any solution that doesn't recognize that is just ignoring the very clear history of economic systems.
Capitalism sucks, but it's better than every other economic system ever attempted.
Let's fix it with Democratic socialism, not burn it down and become the next USSR.
- Capitalism is the greatest generator of wealth ever created
  I feel like when making that "calculation", you've forgotten to figure in the complete and utter destruction of the biosphere, the impending losses due to climate change, the cost in human lives and well-being and dignity of enslavement, exploitation, and so on.
  
  I'm not, though.
  Your conflating an economic system with a lack of regulation. There's no reason capitalism can't be regulated properly. The New Deal showed us that it has been in the past.
- Capitalism sucks, but it's better than every other economic system ever attempted.
  this is my favorite argument against thinking about alternatives because it's so common and is complete nonsense. there's plenty of room for improvement, and it isn't as though "the ussr" is the only alternative.
- The best capitalist society still imposes a class division between owners and workers. Owners want to maximize profit by paying as little as possible for labor. Workers want to get paid as much as possible for doing the least work.
  I am looking for a system where workers gets to keep the value of their labor. Owners lack a place in such a system.
  
  I am looking for a system where workers gets to keep the value of their labor. Owners lack a place in such a system.
  Why? You can have both owners and profit sharing
  
  That's just simply not true. You can go buy some shares of Disney right now, and you'll see that you get the benefits of being an owner.
  It's a spectrum of how much you own vs how much you contact to do labor.
- Lemmy.world trying to think of hot takes
  Fuck your capitalism and its destructive "creation" of wealth
- You do realize Democratic Socialism would eliminate capitalism? Or do you mean market socialism? Or Social Democracy?
  
  Social democracies actually do have capitalism. Sweden for instance has many corporations that exist and are highly successful, while the rest of the economic system has some socialist attributes.
- Yep. Social democracy for the win.
  Capitalism should be allowed to exist within the narrow confines of a sandbox. Its products should be equally distributed and it should be heavily regulated to prevent the creation of the Uber wealthy and extreme income inequity.
  That's just my opinion for whatever the fuck that's worth.
- Capitalism is defined in terms of how it distributes wealth.
  
  No. Capitalism is merely a system of trade and and industry being controlled by private ownership. We've had much better wealth distribution in the past under capitalism.
- You're perfectly fitting the stereotype of the 'temporarily embarrassed billionaire'.
  
  The people decide. Through there elective representatives.
  This whole post is about an awareness that the "person" generating the wealth is actually hundreds of thousands of people generating the wealth.
  Bill Gates didn't generate 80 billion dollars. He just positioned himself in manner to that allowed him to hoard 80 billion dollars in wealth generated by countless software engineers and other workers.
  I don't understand being squeamish about ANYONE trying to redistribute wealth. Right now there's like 3 people who have as much wealth as the bottom HALF of Americans (~150,000,000 people). The situation is beyond ridiculous.

44 comments