5d ago

Linus Torvalds calls RISC-V code from Google engineer 'garbage' and that it 'makes the world actively a worse place to live' — Linux honcho puts dev on notice for late submissions, too

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Linus Torvalds calls RISC-V code from Google engineer 'garbage' and says it 'makes the world actively a worse place to live' — Linux honcho puts dev on notice for late submissions, too

89 comments

As soon as he's not in charge quality is going to go right to shit though.
- He has taken several months-long breaks and things have been fine. There are other trustworthy devs (like Greg Kroah-Hartman) who he leaves in charge who do just fine at holding the line in his absence. They might not publicly shame bad pull requests as elegantly as Torvolds, but the kernel will probably be fine.
- That my worry too.
  
  Linus needs to be the first person whose brain is uploaded to a computer. He is simply too precious to lose.
- What's stopping you from being him ?? I'm asking genuinely. Learn about Kernel maintenance
Honestly that's pretty tame given his history
- Which is a fairly shocking thing to say really. I thought promised to be less of a dick a while ago. Guess he couldn't keep it up.
  
  Spicy Linus > mild Linus.
  This is 2*
  
  It is much less dickish that what he used to say, so he's keeping his promise.
From Google? Probably vibe-coded crap.
Holy shit. Torvalds is only 55 and that's what he looks like now?
Holy fuck.
Now, I would hope there's no garbage inside the RISC-V parts, but that's your choice. But things in generic headers do not get polluted by crazy stuff.
So can anyone explain this? What are header files in this context and why are unnecessary functions especially problematic for them? Why would it not be up to Linus or not his concern what is included in the "RISC-V parts"? I guess this is all code for a Linux kernel that is built on top of RISC-V which I think is an assembly language, and not a modification to RISC-V itself?
I get the logic about make_u32_from_two_u16() being bad at least.
- A header file in the C family of programming languages contains the declarations for each function that gets defined in the accompanying code file. Ideally, the header file should only contain import statements, some basic definitions, and function declarations. It should not contain any actual executable code.
  A header file basically exists to tell the compiler "hey, these functions exist in this file, don't freak out if it gets called before you see its definition." Without the header file, you'd need to write the declarations at the beginning of the code file (in the header, hence the name).
  
  So why is Linus especially upset about "pollution" of "generic headers" here, but considering it to be up to someone else what's in the "RISC-V parts"?
Palmer Dabbelt took it like a champ though:
OK, sorry. I've been dropping the ball lately and it kind of piled up as taking a bunch of stuff late, but that just leads to me making mistakes. So I'll stop being late, and hopefully that helps with the quality issues.
Palmer's pull request - Linus' response - Palmer's apology
Ah yes, Linus Torvalds, the man who convinced generations of nerds that it's okay to treat others like shit as long as you're "right".
He's like the walking epitome of "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole."
Edit: and the neckbeards who spring to his defense always screech about how everybody else needs to stop being so thin-skinned.
No, assholes need to stop treating people like shit. Don't put this on the rest of us
- It's possible to acknowledge Torvalds as both a technical leader and overall smart guy, as well as acknowledging his poor treatment of people and generally being an asshole. A person can be both of those things.
  
  Sure, I never said otherwise, but the problem is usually that people are so blinded by his being a tech leader that they excuse his behavior. Seriously, imagine this was literally anybody else, they'd get booted from their position faster than you can say "motherfucker"
  
  Indeed but you see constant comments condoning or even praising his shitty behaviour, like creating a popular kernel somehow gives him the right to be an arsehole.
  I would like to see more "I'm glad he made Linux but I wish he wouldn't be so constantly abusive" and less "haha he got em again! What a good rant! You're the best Linus!".
- No, assholes need to stop treating people like shit. Don’t put this on the rest of us
  This you?
  Edit: and the neckbeards who spring to his defense
  
  He's not wrong. He's just an asshole.
  
  Aren't we glad I'm not the head of a globally significant OS project who publicly humiliates people?
- We need to treat people with respect
  E: Downvotes? You fucking asshole neckbeards!
  haha
  
  heh to be fair he wasn't wrong either... There are just nicer ways to go about it.
  
  I didn't complain about downvotes, you just made that up for upvotes, and again: this is a random forum and not a professional setting, your fucking "gotcha aha you're just as bad as us!" is pointless and doesn't mean I was wrong about what I said.
  All the neckbeard Linus stans telling me people need thicker skin just proved my point for me.
- And yes, people still need to get a thicker skin.
  If you actually read his posts you'd see that most rants come when people fuck up, then brag about it or complain about Linus not getting their garbage and then doubling down in it.
  Simply putting these things on Linus being a dick is unfair at best.
  You also left out the little detail nowhere thanks to him we now have an open source Linux kernel that is used in more places.... Not going to make a your mom joke.
  I'm sure Linus is not the easiest guy to please but I've never seen him go off against some dude who didn't do anything wrong, who didn't say anything back, who wasn't snarky themselves, etc. yeah, Linus is the benevolent dictator for Linux and so far I see him as a hugely positive force and I hope he continues to be for a long time to come.
  After him, however, Linux will need democracy to survive, I think.
- I'm a long time Linux user, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Linus is a dick. He insults people all the time, and people have normalized it. He's a fucking genius, but not a nice person. What's wrong with just saying "hey, your code has so and so issues. Please fix and resubmit"???
  
  He cares more about quality than your feelings. Boo fucking hoo.
- It is important to be able to call people out on their incompetence. Now more than ever. Bad people often hide behind incompetence in order to avoid blame for their actions, and it works.
  
  You can always say "hey, your code has so and so issues, therefore, I won't approve this PR. Please fix and resubmit. Also, please make sure you don't submit your code late. Thanks", instead of insulting the person.
  
  Calling out incompetence and being a fucking dick are not the same thing, and the fact that people (you included) think that you can't point out mistakes without being a cunt is the entire problem here
- Bro was late and did poor work and that's all Linus said. He didn't insult the guy, he just wasn't polite. Linus is plenty nice to people not actively making his job harder while he's on vacation. It's understandable to be short with someone under those circumstances.
  
  This was my take.
  Developer was late. That itself is a trigger.
  If you rush me trying to sneak code in, gloves are off.
  
  If I write here to you what he wrote there, my comment will be removed and I might be banned.
- I reckon it would be beneficial to everyone involved if someone else just handled public relations for Linus. Just add a filter.
  
  That goes directly against the open, transparent development model of the Linux Kernel.
  When you're developing in the open, everything becomes "public relations".
- the man who convinced generations of nerds that it’s okay to treat others like shit as long as you’re “right”.
  Engineer-types definitely knew that way before Linus.
  Thing is, either you're a straight-up asshole like Linus or you're a passive-aggressive asshole like every project lead who believes in their strong Code of Conduct. Or your product is a failure.
- Not defending him, but him as an entire person is why we have Linux
  If he was different we probably wouldn't have it
- question: do you believe it's as bad now as it has been historically? because the guy went to anger management therapy for like a year after getting called out last time, and i got the impression that things improved after that.
- I dunno, the lesson I learned from him is it's ok to get help. He went and got some, and made working with him better for everyone.
- Ooof, 105 upvotes vs 105 downvotes over someone calling out shitty behavior looks about right. Here's a humble upvote to tilt you over to the good side.
  
  But I used the word "neckbeard", therefore my argument is invalid
- Autistic people struggle with certain social expectations. I'm not excusing his behavior, just giving context.
  
  Is he autistic? Sounds like a speculative excuse to me.
- What Linus says to people is nothing, considering the importance of the Linux kernel in every-ray life. People need to get thicker skin
  
  So if you're important you can be an arsehole.

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